Apostles and Prophets

VW · Jul 31, 2011

The problem with this statement is that there are many interpretations of the bible. One may have this understanding, and another have a different understanding.

The purpose of a prophet of and to Jesus Christ is to call the people into a deeper relationship with Jesus and through Him with God. And if that relationship is missing or refused, to point out the consequences of disobedience.

In truth, this should be the purpose of every minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

But we want it judge others and see if they are true. The truth is in us, if we will hear. The Holy Spirit will confirm every word thatcalls for a growing relationship with Jesus. The religious spirit will argue against these same words.

A prophet cannot be concerned with how the word is received, or whether it is according to another's interpretation of scripture. A religious person will see scripture in a very different way from a spiritual person. So a prophet must be true to speak as he hears.

Truly, the judgment for apostles and prophets is stricter, much more severe.

MaggieMye · Jul 31, 2011

And of course, Jonathan has posted on other threads, but refuses to answer the question of WHY he thinks he is a prophet!!

VW · Jul 31, 2011

Is it such a big thing, that he believes he might be a prophet?

Maybe it is just a deep feeling in his heart. The point is, if he is not, he will find out soon enough.

But what we must not do is crush his spirit. Almost every person who has gone bad, deep into deception, has done so because of extreme feelings of rejection.

We expect Jesus to accept us, just as we are, but we are unwilling to accept another, even over something as innocent as wanting to serve God in an important way.

Truthfully, there is not much available in the way of significant service in church today. Unless you have some musical talent, or have been to seminary school, one can hope to be called as an elder, but often these appointments are political in nature. One can clean or act as an usher or a Sunday school teacher. But not everyone is called to these kinds of ministries.

To become a prophet is not a sin or a bad thing. It is really seeking a life of sacrifice for Jesus, and in fact the desire is planted from above. Not everyone who has the desire is chosen though. Many are called, but few are chosen.

Jonathan will either find that he is called as a prophet, or not. In any case, he should seek to prophecy.

AnandaHya · Jul 31, 2011

MaggieMye said:

A lot of people believe they are because some "elder" in the church they attend tells them they are and their heart wants to believe it is true. the "laying on" of hands that imparts this "prophetic" gift versus the testimony and sanctification by and through the Holy Spirit.

I've never heard of anyone laying hands on a prophet to make them a prophet in the Bible. I read about the annointing for teachers, pastors, and even priesthood of Aaron but prophets. well.....

we have these verses people like to ignore...

Luke 13:33
Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.

2 Peter 1:18-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[a] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

Note that scripture is not interpreted privately but through the guidance of the Holy Spirit by whom we are made in One mind and One Body through Christ Jesus.

Anyway the offices do not concern me as much as the gifts of the Spirit. I believe that the gift of prophecy is still active to help people see the light of God in their lives and the world until they are born again and receive a new heart and spirit which is the meaning of the dawning of the day and the rising of the morning star in their hearts. The morning star is refers to Jesus dwelling within them...

Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together,And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Revelation 2:27-29
New King James Version (NKJV)
27 ‘ He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’[a]—

as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.
29 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

Revelation 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

AnandaHya · Jul 31, 2011

office of apostle: supervise churches and keep pastors accountable to the standards of God and uplifts them and makes sure the body of Christ functions as a harmonious whole in unity of One mind and One body under the leadership of Jesus. they are like the white blood cells of the body.

office of the prophets: edify, exhort, comfort..... stand in the gap between when a believer first believes and confess and the baptism of the Holy Spirit which only happens when God says it will not man, when the believer is given a new spirit and new heart. Help ministers and teachers train new believers into obedience and maturity in Christ through direct revelations, visions and words of wisdom from God that would NEVER contradict the Bible but only lead people into a closer walk with JESUS.

gotta go

Red33 · Jul 31, 2011

VW said:

Many do not agree with you and understand that the revelation of Jesus Christ is complete and nothing needs to be added or taken away from what we have been given in the scriptures. You will not settle that in your heart because you want the liberty to say things in the Spirit (as you claim) that might reveal something that has no been revealed as inspiration to man and been recorded as the written scriptures.

All the mysteries that you refer to have been revealed concerning the church and the new covenant through the authors of the NT, much of it coming from Paul himself because God had purposed and chosen to use him for that reason. This is why it is so important to study the word and especially doctrine, so that we can learn how to think with God in the details of life and to live in the mystery of fellowship that is within the mystery of Christ and the church.

The apostles and prophets (and even evangelists with some possible exceptions in the will of God) are not needed because we have that completed revelation in the scriptures and the foundation of the church is also complete. Timothy was instructed by Paul to do the work of an evangelist (2Tim 4:5) and by all accounts he was a pastor-teacher. We are to be careful how we build on that foundation with Christ being the chief corner stone and we are make sure that we do not add or take away from it and to make full proof of the ministry we have been given. There is nothing we can add to the cross and the finished work of Christ and there is nothing that can be added to the foundation of the church. It is complete and we are complete in Christ as members one of another (Col 2:10, Rom 12:5).

VW · Jul 31, 2011

Red33 said:

Many do not agree with you and understand that the revelation of Jesus Christ is complete and nothing needs to be added or taken away from what we have been given in the scriptures. You will not settle that in your heart because you want the liberty to say things in the Spirit (as you claim) that might reveal something that has no been revealed as inspiration to man and been recorded as the written scriptures.

All the mysteries that you refer to have been revealed concerning the church and the new covenant through the authors of the NT, much of it coming from Paul himself because God had purposed and chosen to use him for that reason. This is why it is so important to study the word and especially doctrine, so that we can learn how to think with God in the details of life and to live in the mystery of fellowship that is within the mystery of Christ and the church.

The apostles and prophets (and even evangelists with some possible exceptions in the will of God) are not needed because we have that completed revelation in the scriptures and the foundation of the church is also complete. Timothy was instructed by Paul to do the work of an evangelist (2Tim 4:5) and by all accounts he was a pastor-teacher. We are to be careful how we build on that foundation with Christ being the chief corner stone and we are make sure that we do not add or take away from it and to make full proof of the ministry we have been given. There is nothing we can add to the cross and the finished work of Christ and there is nothing that can be added to the foundation of the church. It is complete and we are complete in Christ as members one of another (Col 2:10, Rom 12:5).

That is your belief and you are welcome to it and the death it brings.

unclefester · Jul 31, 2011

VW said:

Is it such a big thing, that he believes he might be a prophet?

You tell me. Is living in deception a big "thing". ?

Maybe it is just a deep feeling in his heart. The point is, if he is not, he will find out soon enough.

How soon is soon enough ? "Deep feelings" ....... synonymous with deep desires......our own desires, that is. Feelings are not to be confused with faith

But what we must not do is crush his spirit. Almost every person who has gone bad, deep into deception, has done so because of extreme feelings of rejection.

Unequivocally agreed. And we must also not encourage that which we know is not true.

We expect Jesus to accept us, just as we are, but we are unwilling to accept another, even over something as innocent as wanting to serve God in an important way.

Let's not further confuse anybody by saying that serving God means that it's okay to claim to speak on God's behalf. God's written Word is His Word to us......not someone wanting to be God's mouthpiece. Claiming as much does not have it's roots grounded in "innocence". Not at this juncture, it doesn't.

Truthfully, there is not much available in the way of significant service in church today.

This statement is very telling.........I MUST BE SIGNIFICANT ! And herein lies the problem. And herein lies the spawning ground and reason for our many "prophets today".

To become a prophet is not a sin or a bad thing. It is really seeking a life of sacrifice for Jesus, and in fact the desire is planted from above. Not everyone who has the desire is chosen though. Many are called, but few are chosen.

To call oneself a prophet is a lie......period. Lying is still a sin.

VW · Jul 31, 2011

unclefester said:

VW said:

And you call yourself a believer in Jesus.

A sterile faith is a dead faith. To be alive in Christ is to know Him, to love Him and to seek His presence above all things. The righteous man comes to the light, and Jesus is the light.

Twist words as you may. I said significant service, not become significant.

It is always easy to find fault. It is hardest to leave judgment aside, and seek truth and compassion and building up.

Tell the truth, you prefer that there be no prophets so your sin can remain undiscovered.

needmesomejesus · Jul 31, 2011

VW said:

I believe in that instance the perfect is the completion of the Bible.

4runner · Jul 31, 2011

needmesomejesus said:

There is no reason to believe such a thing, and what is worse is to use conjecture to oppose a direct statement of scripture.

1st Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

To say that tongues, and prophecy have ceased because the bible is here is conjecture. To say we should covet prophecies, and forbid not to speak in tongues is a direct statement from scripture.

needmesomejesus · Jul 31, 2011

4runner said:

There is no reason to believe such a thing, and what is worse is to use conjecture to oppose a direct statement of scripture.

1st Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

To say that tongues, and prophecy have ceased because the bible is here is conjecture. To say we should covet prophecies, and forbid not to speak in tongues is a direct statement from scripture.

The Bible was not completed at this point.

4runner · Jul 31, 2011

needmesomejesus said:

If I were to believe you it is not accurate anymore, as you expect people to disregard the above passage because of you assumption on what the perfect may be.

Red33 · Jul 31, 2011

VW said:

Hear is a beautiful verse in the scriptures from a chapter in the book of Psalms (chapter 119) that you do not like to refer to or associate with, because of the emphasis that it gives concerning the written word. But here it is ...

Psalm 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Isn't that beautiful, that the heart of this psalmist would want more than anything else to BEHOLD (to look steadfastly and gaze upon with awe and wonder) wondrous things from the written law. He did not go outside the written law to get these things but ask God to open his eyes (eyes of understanding -Eph 1:18) to behold and be gripped with these wondrous things that were right their in the written law for him to glean from and to never take his eyes off. Oh how we are to love the written word and to have God open our understanding through His Holy Spirit to these wondrous things that have been hid to be given to the humble who esteem the word above all that is necessary in their life. Is it any wonder the psalmist said in (Ps 56:4,10,11)...

4 In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust ; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.

10 In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word. 11 In God have I put my trust : I will not be afraid what man can do unto me.

There is no idolatry in praising the word here in these verses nor was it idolatry for Job that esteemed the word in (Job 23:12)...

12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

unclefester · Jul 31, 2011

VW said:

Indeed it is......even for a "prophet". Of what purpose is compassion if it is not built up in truth ?

"VW:
I hate your assemblies. I loath your offerings. I despise your service. Your prayers I do not hear, because they are for your own lusts. Your hands are dirty, and your lips have become numb. Your ears do not hear, nor do your eyes see."

needmesomejesus · Jul 31, 2011

4runner said:

I don't expect people to do anything. This is what I believe is right. Meaning that I could very well be wrong. I'm just stating my belief. The Bible is not clear about what the perfect is as far as I know.

4runner · Jul 31, 2011

needmesomejesus said:

Well it does tell us when the perfect does come we will see Jesus face to face.

1st Corinthians 13
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

needmesomejesus · Jul 31, 2011

4runner said:

Well it does tell us when the perfect does come we will see Jesus face to face.

1st Corinthians 13
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

fair enough

I can't argue w/ that

foundthetruth · Jul 31, 2011

Why do you think the office of Apostles and Prophets are in the church today

The churches, for the most part, are spiritually dead. There are modern Apostles and Prophets but the churches reject them and do not recognize their part in the body. They are needed, but the churches will stone them (as they always have.)

2 What would they accomplish if they were? The Apostles and Prophets would edify and build up the churches. The Apostles could go and unite the brethren and the Prophets could serve the churches in showing them what they need to repent for, what they are doing, and what they should and should not be doing (according to God's word.)

3 And do you think it matters as I do seeing all the False Apostles and False Prophets?

The false Apostles and false Prophets are not to surprise us, for it is written that they should indeed come. We, as true believers, should rebuke them openly. It is deeply disturbing to see the millions upon millions led astray by these false teachers. Their reservation is in the darkest blackness of hell.

4 and would you change your mind if the bible supported that there are no Apostles or Prophets?

The bible does not support the lack of Apostles or Prophets. The Creator has always pulled out a people of his own to warn others of the current affairs of the "church" and the upcoming destruction.

Prophets are rising!

AnandaHya · Jul 31, 2011

oh and all TRUE prophets die in Jerusalem so if they don't die there then they aren't sent by God for Jesus said:

Luke 13:33
Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.

unless you guys thinks that verse means something else.

Apostles and Prophets

Banned

MaggieMye

Guest

Banned

AnandaHya

Guest

AnandaHya

Guest

Banned

Banned

unclefester

Guest

Banned

needmesomejesus

Guest

Banned

needmesomejesus

Guest

Banned

Banned

unclefester

Guest

needmesomejesus

Guest

Banned

needmesomejesus

Guest

Banned

AnandaHya

Guest