Scripture only?
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I believe the Lord gives us the Holy Spirit, it helps guide both us and God’s church. I also think that we and also the organized church can listen to either our own importance or the Holy Spirit, and in both cases sometimes our sense of our own importance is listened to instead of the Holy Spirit. If you read the decisions made by the church councils through the life of the church after Christ’s resurrection when God didn’t send prophets any more, you will agree they are not all God ordained. When there were prophets, people sometimes didn’t listen to them, too. You and I need to watch, learn, and listen and never follow men without checking on God’s word, even if it is men in the organized church.
Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
The Bereans who were a Sola Scriptura crowd were commended for testing the Apostolic teaching in the light of Scripture .
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
The Bereans who were a Sola Scriptura crowd were commended for testing the Apostolic teaching in the light of Scripture .
Just one of many false teachings.Look how many Churches u have.Listen what do they teaching.Will u find one Holy Apostolic Protestant Church?Never!In the false teaching of Sola Scriptura is disunity.That is,be sure,manifestation that Holy Spirit left those who has left teaching of holy fathers of early Church.
When the children of Israel made themselves a calf of gold and worshipped it, they had unity. Unity of men.
But the Truth of God was that they were not to worship anything that is not God.
I would also rather have the Truth of God and not join men in their corrupt worship of idols. Even if it means giving up unity with them.
You have to eventually ask yourself what is more important to you, your religion and its traditions or God Himself.
I feel bad for the people who defend their church and think it is the "one true church". They are trapped the same way as the Pharisees before them. They also couldn't be talked out of thinking they were the "one true church", even by the Lord Jesus Himself. They valued their "sacred traditions" over the word of God in their bibles too...
But the Truth of God was that they were not to worship anything that is not God.
I would also rather have the Truth of God and not join men in their corrupt worship of idols. Even if it means giving up unity with them.
You have to eventually ask yourself what is more important to you, your religion and its traditions or God Himself.
I feel bad for the people who defend their church and think it is the "one true church". They are trapped the same way as the Pharisees before them. They also couldn't be talked out of thinking they were the "one true church", even by the Lord Jesus Himself. They valued their "sacred traditions" over the word of God in their bibles too...
Nobody here at Orthodox Church never claimed any equality of man and God,no one never said that saints or holy Teodokos was sinless.All those saints who we now asking for prayers in front of Heavenly Throne,called themselves "Sinners first of all".
How we could then worship them as God!?Why u then changing anything that i have said here or any Orthodox?
How we could then worship them as God!?Why u then changing anything that i have said here or any Orthodox?
Are you supposed to bow down to anything other than God?
Are you supposed to ask for intercession from anyone other than the Lord Jesus?
Who is your High Priest?
You dismiss the answers to these questions with your "Sacred Traditions" and church "theology". The Pharisees before your church fell into the same error. They used their traditions and theology to make the word of God of no effect. The RCC does the same thing. They mixed paganism with their worship and called them "sacred traditions" and called themselves "infallible". Now no one can show them the bible and their error because their traditions are more important and trustworthy to them than the word of God...
Religion is an especially clever trap for the exceptionally prideful. There is One person that can get you out of it. But you have to trust Him more than your church and your "church fathers". Its not bad to have human teachers. Its just bad to think of them as infallible or beyond error. We all make mistakes. The very best of us only see through that glass darkly...
Through the Lord Jesus Christ you are saved. Not through any saints or theology or bishops or elders or traditions. You have to strip all of it away and come to Him. Its not easy. I see people use all kinds of devices to try and Hide from Him. You must walk in the Light as He is in the Light.
Are you supposed to ask for intercession from anyone other than the Lord Jesus?
Who is your High Priest?
You dismiss the answers to these questions with your "Sacred Traditions" and church "theology". The Pharisees before your church fell into the same error. They used their traditions and theology to make the word of God of no effect. The RCC does the same thing. They mixed paganism with their worship and called them "sacred traditions" and called themselves "infallible". Now no one can show them the bible and their error because their traditions are more important and trustworthy to them than the word of God...
Religion is an especially clever trap for the exceptionally prideful. There is One person that can get you out of it. But you have to trust Him more than your church and your "church fathers". Its not bad to have human teachers. Its just bad to think of them as infallible or beyond error. We all make mistakes. The very best of us only see through that glass darkly...
Through the Lord Jesus Christ you are saved. Not through any saints or theology or bishops or elders or traditions. You have to strip all of it away and come to Him. Its not easy. I see people use all kinds of devices to try and Hide from Him. You must walk in the Light as He is in the Light.
K
The only trouble with this observation, is that the action of bowing and the words of the language used to ask are both established by a tradition. Tradition is why we know what those things mean. Even calling Him "Jesus" instead of "Yeshua" is an English language tradition. The issue has got to be which traditions facilitate the relationship with God, which do not.
hi Geo
no, the disunity is not in Sola Scriptura, it's always in presuppositions, and dogmatic traditions brought to Sola Scriptura.
i'm sure i could find a church with a sign which reads "Holy Apostolic Protestant Church"...so?
EO adheres to Apostolic Succession (like Rome, and some Evangelical NAR groups), correct?
the Patriarchs are supposedly as authoritative as Peter of Paul. is that so?
the Holy Spirit has left those who don't hoard (in vaults) and pour over obscure mystical musings of early EO 'fathers'?
this is not to say many of them were not godly men, or that their teachings aren't valuable. i read and listened to sermons/teachings by EO men, and found some of it fruitful.
but declaring the Holy Spirit abandons anyone not vowing obsequiousness to EO traditions and rituals.....?
no, i don't think so.
2 Timothy 3
All Scripture Is Breathed Out by God
10You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whoma you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of Godb may be competent, equipped for every good work.
like....to each their own.
but there's wa-a-a-a-a-ay too much esoterica in EO for my liking.
no, the disunity is not in Sola Scriptura, it's always in presuppositions, and dogmatic traditions brought to Sola Scriptura.
i'm sure i could find a church with a sign which reads "Holy Apostolic Protestant Church"...so?
EO adheres to Apostolic Succession (like Rome, and some Evangelical NAR groups), correct?
the Patriarchs are supposedly as authoritative as Peter of Paul. is that so?
the Holy Spirit has left those who don't hoard (in vaults) and pour over obscure mystical musings of early EO 'fathers'?
this is not to say many of them were not godly men, or that their teachings aren't valuable. i read and listened to sermons/teachings by EO men, and found some of it fruitful.
but declaring the Holy Spirit abandons anyone not vowing obsequiousness to EO traditions and rituals.....?
no, i don't think so.
2 Timothy 3
All Scripture Is Breathed Out by God
10You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whoma you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of Godb may be competent, equipped for every good work.
like....to each their own.
but there's wa-a-a-a-a-ay too much esoterica in EO for my liking.
Geo,
in discussion with EO, the only proof text that's offered for the authority of 'sacred traditions' is this:
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
is this passage the foundation of EO's "Sacred" Traditions + Bible?
do you have any other texts which tell us there's more than Sola Scriptura?
if there are authoritative traditions (i'm not talking about cultural traditions), will the scripture not say so?
in discussion with EO, the only proof text that's offered for the authority of 'sacred traditions' is this:
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
is this passage the foundation of EO's "Sacred" Traditions + Bible?
do you have any other texts which tell us there's more than Sola Scriptura?
if there are authoritative traditions (i'm not talking about cultural traditions), will the scripture not say so?
Holy Tradition in the Bible
As understood by many protestants (especially those of the more evangelical persuasion), Tradition stands in contrast to Scripture. However, there are number references in Holy Scripture to Holy Tradition. For example:
As understood by many protestants (especially those of the more evangelical persuasion), Tradition stands in contrast to Scripture. However, there are number references in Holy Scripture to Holy Tradition. For example:
- Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. Luke 1:1-4 (Note: In this instance, the oral word preceded the written word. Hence Holy Tradition.)
- Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.John 20:30-31
- Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. John 21:25
- I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 1 Corinthians 5:9-10 (Note: Here Paul makes a reference to a letter written to Corinth before the letter we know today as 1st Corinthians. This letter is unknown to modern scholars.
- Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. 1 Corinthians 11:2
And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea. Colossians 4:16 (Note: The "epistle from Laodicea" is not available to us today is written form.)- Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 2 Thessalonians 3:6
k....thanks.
so anything not recorded for us in scripture isn't needed.
if you don't have any of those so-called missing letters, then why say they are needed?
thanks Geo.
here's my point:
[*]Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 2 Thessalonians 3:6
who is the US?
the apostles...Paul included himself.
not Patriarch Z from EO.
love you
zone
so anything not recorded for us in scripture isn't needed.
if you don't have any of those so-called missing letters, then why say they are needed?
thanks Geo.
here's my point:
[*]Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 2 Thessalonians 3:6
who is the US?
the apostles...Paul included himself.
not Patriarch Z from EO.
love you
zone