Skinski,
Do you know what the work is that Paul is talking about? (I will give you a clue) This is another place where the chapter breaks are really bad because it's written as a letter and not a book. He actually starts in 2 Corithians 5
[SUP]11[/SUP]Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. [SUP]12 [/SUP]We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. [SUP]13 [/SUP]If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[SUP][a][/SUP] The old has gone, the new is here! [SUP]18[/SUP]All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:[SUP]19 [/SUP]that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. [SUP]20 [/SUP]We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. [SUP]21 [/SUP]God made him who had no sin to be sin[SUP][b][/SUP] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
As God’s co-workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For he says,
“In the time of my favor I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you.”[SUP][a][/SUP]
I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.
The biggest thing you leave out in all of this is the thing God talks about throughout the whole Bible and that's God's mercy. It's why we are to forgive each other,restore the brother or sister that has fallen,encourage one another to good works,these are all things that should be coming out of a heart that understands what God's mercy means. Once we understand what it cost Jesus to bring us restoration to God it should change our hearts and come out in how we live. Jesus paid way to high a price for us to pick and choose who are to come to Him,and unless you are God do know where they are in their walk with God?
Look at David,was his life so pure or was it that his heart was right before God? Remember he is the one God called a man after God's own heart.
One of the errors many of you hold is simply the belief that because God is merciful that forgiveness is granted "in the midst of rebellion." That belief in essence is simply a repackaged "disobey God and ye shall not surely die."
Yes God is merciful. What does the Bible say about this mercy? Paul writes this...
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Repentance! God's mercy is to lead people to repentance.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
God does not want any to perish, He wants ALL to come to repentance.
Godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation. Repentance is the dynamic of change where the rebellion ceases and the yielding to God begins.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
The prodigal son came to a repentance. The father was merciful but the prodigal son was not restored whilst he was in the pig pen. The prodigal son had to repent first. It is repent for remission.
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
So many people today twist the mercy of God in their minds as being applicable to "forgiveness being granted whilst in rebellion." The Bible does not teach that anywhere.
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:7 is a direct parallel to the parable of the prodigal son. The rebellion ceases and then pardon is granted.
I notice you referred back to 2Cor 5 Sarah. Does 2Cor chapter 5 teach that pardon is granted before the rebellion ceases?
You say things like, "
Jesus paid way to high a price for us to pick and choose who are to come to Him,and unless you are God do know where they are in their walk with God? "
Why is contending for repentance in that the rebellion ceases like in Isa 55:7, Jam 1:21, Luke 15, 2Cor 7:10-11 the same as "us picking and choosing who comes to God" in your mind? Where do these strawmen come from?
Paul preached repentance and faith proven by deeds, why don't you accuse him of the same charge? It is through repentance that the rebellion to God ceases. This is why the Bible says "repentance for remission," the cessation of rebellion is a condition that God has absolutely mandated that must occur before forgiveness is granted. This doctrine does not impinge on the mercy of God. God is merciful yes, but pardon is not granted to those who persist in rebellion, that is what Satan teaches. That is what the Serpent implied to Eve, "yes you can rebel, you won't surely die, it will be ok." That is what you are saying is it not?
Due to the fact that this belief in the idea that the rebellion does not have to cease prior to pardon being granted is so universal throughout the entire church system we therefore have a church system that is full of rebellion. Is it any wonder that in surveys taken that it shows that MOST men view pornography?
The whole system is rotten to the core due to this message of death. Yes the message sounds appealing and the wolves are masters at elaborating on the Bible, but they isolate and twist various passages completely out of context in order to paints a picture that pardon is granted whilst one remains in rebellion.
Here is what Paul states...
2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Acceptance is conditional on your actions. Paul knew that. Paul knew very well that you cannot be walking in the lusts of your flesh in rebellion to God and expect to be accepted. He knew that every person is going to be judged on deeds, that is conduct.
Yes God forgives the "past misdeeds" of those who repent, just like the prodigal son was forgiven of his wayward living but that forgiveness was not granted until he forsook that lifestyle. Read Ephesians 5 where Paul warns people to make sure they have departed from immorality. God's people are holy, they are not filthy rebellious sinners wearing a magic cloak.
Satan wants people to believe the cloak (righteousness imputed whilst in rebellion) because it is an antidote in the mind to the necessity of the forsaking of rebellion in repentance.
The cross of Jesus Christ has been perverted into a provision which covers ongoing rebellion. You believe that the provision can be applied to the prodigal son whilst he is in the pig pen.
Paul says this...
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Apostate Christianity would have you believe that the prodigal son can be this new creature whilst still wallowing in his sin in the pig pen. It is pure foolishness.
Old things pass away and ALL things become new and yet you remain in filth and rebellion because who knows "
where they are in their walk with God"
Paul says this...
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Be ye reconciled to God! Not by trusting in some provisional covering while you REMAIN in rebellion. No, that is a lie. We have to be reconciled to God through repentance and faith by which we can then abide in Christ whereby the righteousness of God is manifested through us.
ALL THINGS DO BECOME NEW. OLD THINGS REALLY DO PASS AWAY.
Paul goes on to say...
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
Where does Paul even give any hint of righteousness being a forensic cloak which covers an ongoing state of filth and rebellion?
2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
Yet you will read what I write and speak against the necessity of holiness and even use the very same scriptures I use to argue in favour of the prodigal son being justified whilst in the pig pen.
If you abide in Christ you don't sin. Those who abide in Christ have departed from iniquity. Those who are Christ's have been crucified, the body of sin has been destroyed, they have been set free from sin. That is the ministry of reconciliation!
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
The children of God are manifested to the world by what they do. Not self-righteousness. Not sinless perfection (as in never making a mistake). Simply manifested by conduct that flows from a heart that has been redeemed from all iniquity and has been made pure.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose
the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this
the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might
redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.