Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man

[zone]

Romans 3
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
27Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

this clearly says even the law of faith is excluded, as a reason for boasting.
why? it's a gift from God.
all His doing.

God will justify by faith.

is He going to leave everything including His Power and Plan to justify the ungodly by faith to man?
as in, hope man musters up enough faith so God can justify him?

pffft....not.

pistis is a gift.
Divine inwrought persuasion.

 

[Elin]

lol.. Why is it called a light? so those who are in darkness can be drawn to the light. that is why we are to be lights, to draw people to God.

We are not the light of Jn 1:5, Jesus is.

Unregenerate man cannot comprehend that light (Jn 1:5), so why would he choose to believe what he cannot comprehend?

As John said, Jesus came, so that through the light (hismelf) , people MIGHT (maybe they will, maybe they won't) Believe in that light.

Correct, but it does not say how they come to believe what they do not comprehend.

I did not reverse the order of anything. Jesus told him how to be born again in John 3: 16. it is plain and simple.. But some people I guess do not "comprehend it"

Then we are in agreement with the order of the text:

born again, then see (Jn 3:3)

born again, then enter (Jn 3:5)

 

[mark54]

ha?
never heard anybody preach that.

then again i never sat in a church where a guy stood up and repeatedly harped on the fact 'Jesus is a created entity and why are you all placing extra-biblical demands on me'?

nobody is placing any demands on you.
believe what you want!
nobody cares...until you're like a scorpion making it clear in every thread on every forum on the www you believe the Trinity is false doctrine. that Jesus specifically and precisely IS NOT GOD, but a god.

why play duh like you don't know what reaction yer gonna get?
don't you have anything better to do?



since Jesus IS NOT GOD, is it not your responsibility to be CERTAIN to preach plainly and simply from the Scriptures that men SHOULD NEVER WORSHIP Jesus, since that would be IDOLATRY?

or is it just loosey-goosey any god is fine?
ya...polytheism says many gods, and that's cool.

long as y'all don't make any demands on simple little ol' me.

simple advice:

stay off the head knowledge threads you hate.
stop following people around on unrelated threads spamming the same JESUS IS NOT GOD stuff.

simple.



previously, from episode 5000 of mark54 - JESUS IS NOT GOD:
"outta this thread
I'll leave you all to discuss the ttile of the thread, my apologies for contributing to sidetracking away from it"

zone asked:

pride, vanity and ego is at the bottom of 'the error' of those who say Jesus is God?

that's just plain weird.
eh...arians

............

"7 year old children, can anyone tell me Who these scriptures are saying is God?"

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory.

that's JESUS!

You wanna be careful, asv I am sure Elin is consistent, and not just pandering to friends, she will I am sure be asking you not to derail her thread
But to briefly respond to what you have said
Well there isn't much to say is there, not possible to take you seriously as you cleary don't understand the basics of the Christian faith
But don't worry, you still got your theologians and scholars, they'll tell you what to believe

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are not the light of Jn 1:5, Jesus is.

Unregenerate man cannot comprehend that light (Jn 1:5),

I never stated we were. I stated WHY we are told to be lights in darkness.

so why would he choose to believe what he cannot comprehend?

Everyone can comprehend they are condemned, romans 1 is clear in this. If we can comprehend this, we can comprehend Jesus paid the way for us to be restored. We do not have to comprehend the whole of the kingdom of God to be saved. we can't nor would it save us.

Correct, but it does not say how they come to believe what they don not comprehend.

actually it does.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [SUP]7 [/SUP]This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

Again might. Maybe the will, maybe they wont.

Then we should are in agreement with the order of the text:

born again, then see (Jn 3:3)

born again, then enter (Jn 3:5)

John 3: 16 is the basis.

It does not say he died for the world (elect) so that they will believe and have eternal life (be born again)

It says he died for the WHOLE WORLD that WHOEVER (some will some wont) Believes WILL have eternal life.

 

[zone]

you figured out what nicodemus figured out! and what jesus told him.

what was that again EG?

that being born of water was amniotic fluid?
that flesh (amniotic fluid) gives birth to flesh, but Spirit give birth to spirit?
that's 'what nicodemus figured out'?

Nicodemus got it wrong.

“Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?

John 3
You Must Be Born Again
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2This man came to Jesusa by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born againb he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.c 7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘Youd must be born again.’ 8The winde blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

 

[Elin]

and how are we born again:

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

It does not say "will be born", but "is born."

If you believe, it is because you have been born of God.

"Whosoever crunches ice in his mouth is in possession of teeth."

He can only crunch because he already has teeth.

 

[mark54]

So you are saying you choose to continue derailing the thread?

Not me derailing it, but others seeking to engage me in conversation or making out I believe what I do not.

Seems to me though you are pandering to the flesh as you haven't asked anyone else that I can see not to derail the thread who has joined it with no intention of discussing the subject of your thread
Still, I won't complain if you walk after the flesh at times, there's a world of difference between discussing theology and not pandering to the flesh isn't there

 

[zone]

The "corridors of time" thing is bordering on open theism.

it's the only answer to the conundrum.
so it gets labelled cliche.

then there's the Molinism thing diggs mentioned (God decides to limit his knowledge, or is unable to see the WHO WILL, though He knows some will).

this whole things is just ridiculous, really.

will all men be saved? no.
will some be? yes.
do any deserve it? no.
do any of us know who will and won't? no.

Who makes all the decisions? God.

seems real simple for me.
a-a-a-anyways.

 

[Elin]

And how are we born again?

John 3: 16.. He who believes..will HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.. (the act of giving eternal life IS the act of BEING born again.)

No, eternal life is the result of believing. . .will have (following belief) eternal life.

It indicates nothing about how one comes to believe, only the result of believing.

 

[zone]

That is precisely what I said.

Unregenerate darkness cannot comprehend the light (Jn 1:5).

The unregenerate man cannot receive the things that come from the Spirit of God,
they are foolishness to him (1Co 2:14).

Faith is a gift (Php 1:29).

I believe only by grace (Ac 18:27).

That's not what Jn 3:3 states.

You have reversed the order of the text.

i think it's all one complex working by God.
it doesn't matter to me ultimately how He works it.

faith is a gift, He said the Spirit is a guarantee/proof/sealed stamp of ownership of the purchased person HE BOUGHT, and is given also for the assurance that possession of the purchased person WILL happen in due time.

 

[mark54]

"7 year old children, can anyone tell me Who these scriptures are saying is God?"

!

Pity there's none on here. We could of asked them what the following means
Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
BTW
Can you produce the post where I said the Trinity was a false doctrine?
Course you can't its just more of the same isn't it. making up lies as to what people are supposed to believe or not believe.
Seems to me those scholars and theologians aren't doing you much good, don't any of them tell you not to lie/misrepresent what people state?

 

[tribesman]

i think it's all one complex working by God.
it doesn't matter to me ultimately how He works it.

faith is a gift, He said the Spirit is a guarantee/proof/sealed stamp of ownership of the purchased person HE BOUGHT, and is given also for the assurance that possession of the purchased person WILL happen in due time.

Its sometimes called a "package". But the emphasis must be laid on regeneration as understood as man having as little a say in this spiritual birth as in his natural birth.

 

[zone]

You wanna be careful, asv I am sure Elin is consistent, and not just pandering to friends, she will I am sure be asking you not to derail her thread
But to briefly respond to what you have said
Well there isn't much to say is there, not possible to take you seriously as you cleary don't understand the basics of the Christian faith
But don't worry, you still got your theologians and scholars, they'll tell you what to believe

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, eternal life is the result of believing. .

Thank you. And considering the fact that "eternal life" is another way to say "born again" you just showed that we are born again, given eternal life as a result of believing.

(*think, if one does not have eternal life. they are still dead. thus they are NOT regenerate)

the act of giving the gift of eternal life is the act of regeneration. one has passed from death to life. this life being eternal in nature.

 

[zone]

Its sometimes called a "package". But the emphasis must be laid on regeneration as understood as man having as little a say in this spiritual birth as in his natural birth.

i guess that's covered here:

Romans 8
28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its sometimes called a "package". But the emphasis must be laid on regeneration as understood as man having as little a say in this spiritual birth as in his natural birth.

disagree. the emphasis must be laid on regeneration as the act of passing from death to life (eternal) and why and how this is done (by faith through justification)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not me derailing it, but others seeking to engage me in conversation or making out I believe what I do not.

Seems to me though you are pandering to the flesh as you haven't asked anyone else that I can see not to derail the thread who has joined it with no intention of discussing the subject of your thread
Still, I won't complain if you walk after the flesh at times, there's a world of difference between discussing theology and not pandering to the flesh isn't there

don't fall for the trap bro. just walk away..lol

 

[mark54]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory.

Now this is eternal life(note what constitutes eternal life) that they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

But you don't accept the requirements of Christ unto salvation do you, you know better, you add to them all that studying of theologians and scholars has taken you far beyond the plain words/requirements of Christ
BTW
Which one of them told you a person will stand condemned on the day of judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth?
Just curious

 

[cfultz3]

It does not say "will be born", but "is born."

If you believe, it is because you have been born of God.

"Whosoever crunches ice in his mouth is in possession of teeth."

He can only crunch because he already has teeth.

In fact, the Greek says: Everyone who is believing (present participle) that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God (perfect passive).

Notice, even in John 3:16, that faith is mentioned first, then rebirth.

"Whosoever believes he can crush ice in his mouth is able to do so because he believes he can"
"Whosoever does not believe he can crush ice in his mouth is not able to do so because he does not believe he can"

Ever heard of the power of suggestion?

One believes in Christ for their righteousness from their heart. Confession is made from the heart for salvation.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto (for) righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[tribesman]

disagree. the emphasis must be laid on regeneration as the act of passing from death to life (eternal) and why and how this is done (by faith through justification)

It's a resurrection from death to life. What "part" has a recipient of such to fulfill?