If Noah's Ark is a true story...

[Bowman]

When God wrote the Bible, He chose what details He was going to leave in. Just because no one is mentioned as going beyond the Mesopotamian area, does not mean it didn't happen, and God did not put those details in. He does say that He is going to target everything he made.

I thought He intervened at Babel to keep humans from doing whatever they thought of to do, not to make them fill the earth. That's what Gen 11:6 says. Verse 2 says they were in fact migrating when they came to Shinar.

You also need to allow for details in the narrative that are different from country to country. Like the Chinese reporting a 10 day night, while Noah had daylight. Or the Mayans reporting a rain of resin. Or Plato reporting settlement of Atlantis before the flood, and the Atlantis world aggression mimicked in the Hindu Vedas. These details only make sense to be added by people who had lived through such events. And the pre-Egyptian heiroglyphs in copper mines in Michigan, and tons of copper missing from the continent, again confirming Plato's story. The Mayans saying the giants became monkeys after the flood. People had to be in those places to see things from this different point of view. All point to stories of worldwide population spread, that God simply left out of the narrative, as not germane to His relationship with us.

The place-names Genesis mentions before the flood are localized, but, after Babel, the place-names are not localized. This is a vital clue that mankind had herded together in one location until they were forcibly made to change.

As in all flood stories, the races closest to the Mesopotamian plain have the most credibility and the least amount of distortion. The further the distance from the actual event, the more distorted the story becomes.

 

[kenisyes]

The place-names Genesis mentions before the flood are localized, but, after Babel, the place-names are not localized. This is a vital clue that mankind had herded together in one location until they were forcibly made to change.

As in all flood stories, the races closest to the Mesopotamian plain have the most credibility and the least amount of distortion. The further the distance from the actual event, the more distorted the story becomes.

"Clue" is not proof. Especially in the presence of so much evidence to the contrary.

The statement that the further you get from Mesopotamia, the less distortion, is simply not true. Some people think it is true, because seminary textbooks sometimes have a chapter on flood legends, and they quote only those legends of which it IS true. That's because the textbooks are teaching the Bible, not history. I gave you several examples.

 

[Bowman]

"Clue" is not proof. Especially in the presence of so much evidence to the contrary.

What 'evidence to the contrary' would that be....?

The statement that the further you get from Mesopotamia, the less distortion, is simply not true. Some people think it is true, because seminary textbooks sometimes have a chapter on flood legends, and they quote only those legends of which it IS true. That's because the textbooks are teaching the Bible, not history. I gave you several examples.

You have that backwards, brother...the further away from the event the greater the distortion...

 

[jimmydiggs]

There's a good series entitled the Bible's Buried Secrets which you might find interesting.

The similarities between the creation story and other myths, the parallels between
Jesus and other worshipped figures are well documented.

What first led me to become skeptical was the movie Zeitgeist. Now I realize that
a lot of it is not scholarly accurate but it does point out that there are too many
similarities to ignore.

There's a video on youtube entitled "A History of God" by user Evid3nc3 explains
a lot.

So parallels, mean there was copying and forging?


What about Calculus? Who invented calculus?

What first led me to become skeptical was the movie Zeitgeist. Now I realize that
a lot of it is not scholarly accurate but it does point out that there are too many
similarities to ignore.

Understandable. I once considered Zeitgeist to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, until I learned history and logical systems.

 

[kenisyes]

What 'evidence to the contrary' would that be....?
You have that backwards, brother...the further away from the event the greater the distortion...

I'm getting tired of saying the same thing over and over. There are statements from every culture on earth of a pre-flood life that they led, and of happenings during the flood that could only be observed from their side of the world. There is archeological evidence and literary evidence that is not compatible with the theory you state. Comparative mythology has been around long enough, and literary criticism long before that, to know that myths distort only according to certain rules. The theory you propose, of people after Babel, taking the flood story with them is simply not possible according to this evidence. In most cases, the children of Noah encountered living people when they got wherever. It's too much to go into here. The details would fill several books.

You keep making the same assertions over and over. I have indicated that Chinese and Mayan cultures have statements that could only have happened before the flood. Irish history speaks of three separate incoming migrations before the flood. I have told you Plato states that the Egyptian records say that Atlantis was settled before the flood, and that copper mining in Amercia supports it. Chinese, Hindu, Sumerian, Egyptian, Isreali writings, all state unequivocally, that the sons of Noah, and/or, tower of Babel dispersion people found, and imposed a culture upon, people who were living in the area when they got there. It happened over and over again, in cultures around the world. The only possible explanation, is that these people went through a flood (in China and Mayan cultures we can match compatibility with the Biblical date via Egypt and Sumerian calendar similarities) at the same time as Noah, in their own countries, and some lived to tell about it.

It is certainly true that if you pick and choose which indian tribes, and which valley people's legends you look at, that these groups were taught the flood story from their fathers, and it is the Biblical story. But the legends I listed are all compatible with the Bible, but have details not in the Bible that agree among themselves.

 

[EBenjamin]

Im sorry if im speaking out of turn here, i believe that there were 2 of each animal to save but in addition 7 of each clean animal because those where used as sacrifices/offerings or possible food. the classification of the animals as "clean" give a clue to the purpose because clean animals in the Jewish tradition where suitable for eating or sacrifices only.

it might be something like take 2 of each animal and keep them alive but also take 7 of each clean animal to eat or sacrifice durring your time on the ark so that you can both eat or sacrifice as well as preserve the kind of animal. just an idea.

 

[Bowman]

I'm getting tired of saying the same thing over and over. There are statements from every culture on earth of a pre-flood life that they led, and of happenings during the flood that could only be observed from their side of the world. There is archeological evidence and literary evidence that is not compatible with the theory you state. Comparative mythology has been around long enough, and literary criticism long before that, to know that myths distort only according to certain rules. The theory you propose, of people after Babel, taking the flood story with them is simply not possible according to this evidence. In most cases, the children of Noah encountered living people when they got wherever. It's too much to go into here. The details would fill several books.

Then please provide some scripture passages which seem to buttress your position.

You keep making the same assertions over and over. I have indicated that Chinese and Mayan cultures have statements that could only have happened before the flood. Irish history speaks of three separate incoming migrations before the flood. I have told you Plato states that the Egyptian records say that Atlantis was settled before the flood, and that copper mining in Amercia supports it. Chinese, Hindu, Sumerian, Egyptian, Isreali writings, all state unequivocally, that the sons of Noah, and/or, tower of Babel dispersion people found, and imposed a culture upon, people who were living in the area when they got there. It happened over and over again, in cultures around the world. The only possible explanation, is that these people went through a flood (in China and Mayan cultures we can match compatibility with the Biblical date via Egypt and Sumerian calendar similarities) at the same time as Noah, in their own countries, and some lived to tell about it.

It is certainly true that if you pick and choose which indian tribes, and which valley people's legends you look at, that these groups were taught the flood story from their fathers, and it is the Biblical story. But the legends I listed are all compatible with the Bible, but have details not in the Bible that agree among themselves.

My assertions are based upon what scripture states.

Yours, however, are not only repeated, but lack a reference....probably because you are a little uneasy about providing a source, as it would most likely expose your YEC approach to the topic......yes?

Let's see what you have...

 

[CDavid]

How did kangaroos, emus and platypuses get to Australia after Noah landed his boat?

This could be one of the many questions God will answer for us, when we are with Him in paradise.

 

[Tintin]

The parallels between Christ and pagan gods are sparse and a load of bollocks (interesting though). As we all know, pagan gods and goddesses changed regularly (when they died, were overthrown or defeated). They were upgraded and refined to create new gods (eg. for each new Egyptian pharaoh, a new god). We know for a fact that people like Alexander the Great was deified and it's possible that Thoth (the ibis-headed divine scribe from Egyptian mythology) was actually a deified understanding of Enoch who walked with God (from early Genesis). But the Christian God is remarkably consistent and Jesus is both God and man, not half of each. This rubbish about the Christ story being a rip-off of other religions was perpetuated was only recently perpetuated by several writers to discredit Christianity (not to report facts and find the truth). It holds no water, if only you do a little research on the topic.

There's a good series entitled the Bible's Buried Secrets which you might find interesting.

The similarities between the creation story and other myths, the parallels between
Jesus and other worshipped figures are well documented.

What first led me to become skeptical was the movie Zeitgeist. Now I realize that
a lot of it is not scholarly accurate but it does point out that there are too many
similarities to ignore.

There's a video on youtube entitled "A History of God" by user Evid3nc3 explains
a lot.

 

[Nautilus]

The world looked very different before the flood. It's very likely that the separation of the continents is a result of the massive flood waters not having anywhere to go. As such, the continents may have been one land mass or several large land masses. Travel would've been easy - no oceans to cross.

I hate to disagree here...but the movement of the continents would take millenia. They would not have repositioned as far as they have since the time of the flood without the geological forces resulting from it tearing the earth apart.

 

[Tintin]

Sorry, Nautilus, I worded that poorly. What I meant to say is that the great bodies of water receded, filled in gaps and covered many areas of existing land etc. to create the appearance of separate continents as we see them today (there are numerous land bridges between them at very deep levels). That's what I believe anyway.

 

[Hungry]

Yet, you have no problem accepting a rib made a woman? That seems probable?

And how inaccurate are these dating methods? Do you know what they are and how they work
or are you spouting off something that you heard from other misinformed people?

You have provided no links or sources for your claims so I will start. I hope you take a
good long read and educate yourself. Nothing wrong with that right?
Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

Terminator, first of all we were discussing the flood. Try to stay on topic. Moses wasn't writing a science textbook. I'm sure if he realized his writings would be analyzed by the top scientists and technology thousands of years later he might have thrown in a few more details. If you really, really look hard a Genesis you can find more unexplained than just size of a flood. The point is the population is more consistent with that timeline and there is evidence of a massive flood. Dating records and methods have flaws. You know what they are. Just because I don't have time to spend years in university at the moment to build a case you would find convincing doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm not telling you I believe the earth is a few thousand years old but I don't believe dinosaurs are billions of years old either.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

What folks are doing here is trying to put God in human terms. That is impossible. I don't think it took a millenium for God to speak and dry land appear. It is true that no human could put all species on a boat, what we are leaving out is that He is God and can do anything.

The continents fit together like a puzzle. If you look through the begats of Genesis you find a man named Peleg, for the earth was broken up in his day. So Pangea is not far off or at least could be so. Folks God is just that, God, He can do anything. We are always trying to understand Him with our own intellect and it is impossible. That is where faith comes in and the just shall live by faith, not science, not education, not by reasoning, not by philosophy, but by faith.

 

[Fenner]

I have no idea how salt water becomes salty, or why the Dead Sea and Salt Lake have salt or why their is salt in mountian lakes.
I dont believe it proves anything, I dont believe your wrong, I am not a scientist just happen to learn that fact while fishing.

What I underestood the OP to say was that if there was a world wide flood how could we have fresh water fish, how would they have survived, that a flood should have contaminated all waters. I was just explaining the science that would prevent that.

I think you mean zebra 'mussels'. Zebra muscles would've long decayed before discovering them in Lake Erie. At first I thought you meant Lake Eyre (as in South Australia).

I live in Erie Pennsylvania and Zebra muscles are a big problem in Lake Erie.

 

[Fenner]

I have no idea how salt water becomes salty, or why the Dead Sea and Salt Lake have salt or why their is salt in mountian lakes.
I dont believe it proves anything, I dont believe your wrong, I am not a scientist just happen to learn that fact while fishing.

What I underestood the OP to say was that if there was a world wide flood how could we have fresh water fish, how would they have survived, that a flood should have contaminated all waters. I was just explaining the science that would prevent that.

I live in Erie Pennsylvania and Zebra muscles are a big problem in Lake Erie.

I'm so sorry tin tin i just re read your response, my apologies. your're rifht mussles, lol.

 

[Tintin]

Hey, no worries, mate. It's all good.

 

[terminator]

Terminator, first of all we were discussing the flood. Try to stay on topic. Moses wasn't writing a science textbook. I'm sure if he realized his writings would be analyzed by the top scientists and technology thousands of years later he might have thrown in a few more details. If you really, really look hard a Genesis you can find more unexplained than just size of a flood. The point is the population is more consistent with that timeline and there is evidence of a massive flood. Dating records and methods have flaws. You know what they are. Just because I don't have time to spend years in university at the moment to build a case you would find convincing doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm not telling you I believe the earth is a few thousand years old but I don't believe dinosaurs are billions of years old either.

Radiocarbon dating has an accuracy of +/- 30 years and totally disproves your view.
There are also these facts:

• Antarctic Ice cores dating between 400k and 750k (no flood as there would only be 4500 years of data)
• Very old trees older than 4500 years (tree rings, one for each year) Even evergreens make one ring a year
• Lake Varves (sediment layers spanning thousands if not millions of years - no evidence of a flood.
• River deltas (None of these deltas would have formed to their current size in a mere 4500 years) The geology of these have no traces of any global flood
• Impact craters all over the world

 

[terminator]

The parallels between Christ and pagan gods are sparse and a load of bollocks (interesting though). As we all know, pagan gods and goddesses changed regularly (when they died, were overthrown or defeated). They were upgraded and refined to create new gods (eg. for each new Egyptian pharaoh, a new god). We know for a fact that people like Alexander the Great was deified and it's possible that Thoth (the ibis-headed divine scribe from Egyptian mythology) was actually a deified understanding of Enoch who walked with God (from early Genesis). But the Christian God is remarkably consistent and Jesus is both God and man, not half of each. This rubbish about the Christ story being a rip-off of other religions was perpetuated was only recently perpetuated by several writers to discredit Christianity (not to report facts and find the truth). It holds no water, if only you do a little research on the topic.

Ok please post your how you know this and the evidence against Mithra, Osiris, Horus, Dionysus, Krishna, etc.
Also how do we know that they are not real?

 

[terminator]

So parallels, mean there was copying and forging?


What about Calculus? Who invented calculus?

Understandable. I once considered Zeitgeist to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, until I learned history and logical systems.

I think the main point is what was first? Mithraism existed before Christianity, for example,
and the egyptian myths, etc.

And I understand that some parts of Zeitgeist are inaccurate but where did
you learn your history from and how do you know that it's accurate?

This Bible's Buried Secrets documentary shows how the Bible doesn't align
with archaeology. I don't expect you to watch it because you're obviously
not interested in contradicting facts.

 

[terminator]

Terminator, first of all we were discussing the flood. Try to stay on topic.

Here's a question for the non believers. If Noah's ark was excavated and proof was provided that in fact a flood covered the earth would you believe that God had anything to do with it? There was an outline on a mountain in Turkey of an ark shape with the proper dimensions. They did some xray like testing and found it had compartments around the inside of the shell. Before they could do more testing the government kicked them out. I have been told that the oil and the fossils could be explained by a sudden covering of vegetation and animals. If people and animals have existed so long where is everyone? There should be billions more people if we started reproducing even ten thousand years ago. The sun would have been too intense a million years ago for life on this planet. It looses a little heat every day. The moon gets a little further from the earth every year. I saw a program that claims the earth must have ejected the moon 2 billion years ago. You think we are grasping straws? People see pictures of the succession of cavemen to modern man and figure wow that looks probable. However there is no missing links found other than in artwork. The closest anyone can find was a couple of bone fragments then drew in the rest. All of the dating methods have been PROOVED inaccurate. Instead of trying to convince Christians they are wrong spend a little more time proving yourselves right because we don't have the monopoly on faith.

And this is not off topic?