How would you answer?

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ember

Guest
#21
Unfortunately, heretical Christianity has, for years, encouraged otherwise sane men and women, to gleefully anticipate death, misery, and eternal torment for a vast majority of earth’s populace. This is neither, healthy nor sane. It is madness, and madness of the most disgusting kind. I know that my words seem harsh here, but truly, this is an issue which has plagued the Church, and thus the world, for centuries.
I just honestly do not know who these Christians are?

I do get out on occasion
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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#22
I don't really get the question but my answer is...

God is just, God is love, people are sinners, unworthy, God is merciful, God knows our hearts, thoughts, everything about us and He will decide what happens to us. We have a choice to make and God knows each one of us and has the hair on our head numbered.... God doesn't make mistakes.... It will be right in the end and we will all know God is right, just, fair and love. No matter if we have a crown or we bow before Him that last time acknowledging that He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Every knee will bow... It is called God's strange act. But sin, evil and death will be done away with. Because God is Love.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#23
My Blondness will be showing here but what exactly was the question?
The question is a response to the statement made. God is evil and a hypocrite for the acts He has committed, if done by a man the man would be deemed evil and the man jailed or worse. It is equating God and Hitler and saying God is worse. It does this by bringing up God's righteous judgments and calling them evil.
 
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Guest
#24
That the God of the bible is a hypocrite and not the righteous God He claims to be. This reveals historical ignorance. God's judgement is righteous, not evil.
OK...before I read the rest of your post...just this thought:

this does appear on the surface, but he says far more continuing on

do you have a link to his site? if you are familiar with existentialism (guessing you are) I think it might just fit because that ism begins and ends with man's ideas on man

keeping in mind that the philosophy has different approaches, I think this fit from wiki does it justice

here
 
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#25
My Blondness will be showing here but what exactly was the question?
In essence, his question has been, for years, do we find our Lord in Jesus who refused to harm anyone, and told us to do the same, that if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father... or do we find him in the vengeful slaughterer of hundreds of thousands in the old testament?

Just like us, he also staunchly told people for years, "Both!" But, he has come not to be able to easily live with that answer anymore.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#26
In essence, his question has been, for years, do we find our Lord in Jesus who refused to harm anyone, and told us to do the same, that if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father... or do we find him in the vengeful slaughterer of hundreds of thousands in the old testament?

Just like us, he also staunchly told people for years, "Both!" But, he has come not to be able to easily live with that answer anymore.
God's wrath is kindled by His love. That love protects, and if you read the exert I shared, God gave ample time for repentance to any wicked people He laid judgement upon.
 
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Guest
#27
K...read the rest of your post Ben

yes, I am aware of the cultures and ites inhabiting the land prior to God's giving it to the Israelites

A notable contrast is God telling Abraham that his descendants would go through much suffering in Egypt...kind of on a holding pattern but with God's complete plan in mind....as the evil of the inhabitants of the land they were going to had not yet reached its apex

So, what do we know, right? if the Bible says that God looked down and saw that every thought and inclination was evil ALL the time (Gen 6:5) then we are very far removed from understanding evil IMO..we just have a little skipping of a stone over the water kind of concept...I am ready to believe that...it is surprising how much your mind can go astray during the course of one day...holy in the morning, a little unholy by noon and you don't know how you got there by nightfall. I doubt I'm the only one living that..thankfully not every day

A favorite passage of mine is in Lamentations 3...the mercies of the Lord are new every morning

So, I still am inclined to see this movement as a human approach to the Bible...no matter how much the Holy Spirit is mentionned

I don't like being told what I'm thinking either LOL!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#28
In essence, his question has been, for years, do we find our Lord in Jesus who refused to harm anyone, and told us to do the same, that if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father... or do we find him in the vengeful slaughterer of hundreds of thousands in the old testament?

Just like us, he also staunchly told people for years, "Both!" But, he has come not to be able to easily live with that answer anymore.
God the Father is not bipolar, lol. His dealing with man has been altered by HIS plan of reconciliation where HE sent His Son to die on the cross for mankind's redemption. People seem to think our Heavenly Father is against us and Jesus stands in the distance, and yet Jesus was doing the Father's will. That seems to be forgotten. God is Love.
 
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#29
That the God of the bible is a hypocrite and not the righteous God He claims to be. This reveals historical ignorance. God's judgement is righteous, not evil.

Exert from a site:

Evilbible.com overlooks the historical evidences that these nations and cultures practiced the very things that evilbible.com decries as morally reprehensible. As just one example, the Assyrians who inhabited Nineveh during the time of Jonah were an incredibly barbaric and cruel people. When archaeologists uncovered Nineveh, the TV specials produced from their work had to be filtered because the evidence of brutality was so great. The discoveries unearthed facts such as how the Assyrians used to slowly impale their victims by sliding them down sharp poles, and that they also made handbags from their victim’s skins. In a stone pillar found at Nineveh, one Assyrian ruler boasted of “nobles I flayed” and “three thousand captives I burned with fire. I left not one hostage alive. I cut off the hands and feet of some. I cut off the noses, ears and fingers of others. The eyes of numerous soldiers I put out. Maidens I burned as a holocaust.” Such things certainly speak against evilbible.com’s claims that the people who fell under God’s judgment were innocent. Other examples include the inhabitants of Jericho who history has shown practiced child sacrifice, cultic prostitution, and much more.


Evilbible.com also overlooks the patience of God in dealing with such people. God always waited for the nations who ultimately experienced judgment to turn from their despicable ways and always warned them of the judgment that was coming. The book of Jonah describes God’s patience with the Ninevites, who finally did turn from their evil ways and avoided destruction. Other peoples and cultures could have repented of their sins, but they chose not to. As an example, the people of Amalek (described in 1 Samuel) routinely attempted to commit genocide against Israel, but were given 400 years by God to repent. But Amalek continued to commit their atrocities against Israel and so God judged them via Saul and the Israeli army.

site:
Is God evil? Is the Bible evil?
Where did that come from? What the heck is Evilbible.com?
 
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ember

Guest
#30
oh...one other thought

I see the questions being framed as part and parcel of the original questioning of God in the garden

"Has God really said?" Sure, there are variations on the theme, but basically, it is a questioning of God that leads to rebellion

I'm not trying to make any of this simple, because I don't think that it is (simple) however, for myself, I find a good way to understand something, is to ask questions of what is being said. ie: well, why is he generalizing to the point that exclusion of what he thinks makes his point for him? That's really a kind of built in defense and quite well thought out IMO
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#31
Where did that come from? What the heck is Evilbible.com?
Oh, its a site, atheist I think, against the bible and tries to paint God as evil. I shared it to show how God did His judgment righteously. lol People make claims of God committing atrocities, like in what you shared, but ignore context and righteous judgment.
 
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#32
God's wrath is kindled by His love. That love protects, and if you read the exert I shared, God gave ample time for repentance to any wicked people He laid judgement upon.
Truthfully? The two boys (I think it was two) who reached out to steady the ox cart with the ark in it when it hit a bump in the trail? An act instinctively done in protection and good faith. Zap! Dead on the spot.
 
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ember

Guest
#33
That made David question

So is God pompous and self righteous?

If we are made in His image, do we get those traits from Him?

See how easy that is?

It's not truth though
 
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ember

Guest
#34
see...he is delving in philosophy

you never end with the questions or reasoning
 
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#35
Oh, its a site, atheist I think, against the bible and tries to paint God as evil. I shared it to show how God did His judgment righteously. lol People make claims of God committing atrocities, like in what you shared, but ignore context and righteous judgment.
Trust me, Jeff is so far more read in Theocratic matters than any of us here on this forum that it would make your head spin. He's not just playing the silly games Atheists play.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#36
I don't what I'd say, other than that the God of the OT and the NT are one and the same. God continues to reveal more and more of Himself through history as He loves His people. Sometimes, great discipline is needed to keep His people on track. And finally, that I've been a Christian for as long as I remember and I believe all of these difficult things in the Bible to be true, but that it doesn't mean I haven't wrestled with them. I absolutely have. After all, a faith worth having, is a well-reasoned faith.
 
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#37
God the Father is not bipolar, lol. His dealing with man has been altered by HIS plan of reconciliation where HE sent His Son to die on the cross for mankind's redemption. People seem to think our Heavenly Father is against us and Jesus stands in the distance, and yet Jesus was doing the Father's will. That seems to be forgotten. God is Love.
Actually, Jeff believes just the opposite.
He believes that God gave Himself, as Jesus, and rescued Himself. ("I have the power to lay down my life, and pick it back up again...")
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#38
Willie this is a very good thing to discuss as long as it's not in the bdf:b His reasoning of this isn't wrong and God doesn't strike us with lightning for questioning his ways of punishment in fact he welcomes it because he understands how it doesn't make sense to us. I could answer it by saying our understand it like comparing our understanding of the word from an ant to a human but that doesn't help or answer the heart of issue and honestly seems like a response when we don't know the answer.

The question by many non believers is if God is so loving then why does he throw all who don't follow him into the lake of fire. I mean it's not an illogical question and kind of makes God seem like a self conceited being, I mean think about it he loves us soooo much but if we don't love him back or follow him or obey him we burn forever. Honestly this is perhaps one of the hardest questions to answer because it honestly makes sense as to why one would think that.

I don't know if this is the answer you are seeking but I wanted to give my understanding of it. if one has been a parent they learn that if you let them do whatever they please and if you never discipline them or punish them they can become the worst kind of people in all kinds of ways and if there is no consequence then it doesn't matter what anyone does. Just as if there is no heaven or not eternal life in the end anything we do doesn't really matter it doesn't affect anything when we are dead and few ever make their marks in history if we don't have a consequence for our actions on earth then why does it matter if we are good or bad if we follow him or seek our own life's pursuits?

Jesus is known as both a lamb and Lion, a lamb is meek and gentle but a Lion is strong fierce and is feared. if God was passive all the time we would not have any need to do anything for him we could live the most sinful life in the history of man kind and yet still go to eternal paradise. It's not that he enjoys showing his wrathful side or throwing us into the pit of fire in fact it hurts his heart when he has to but if he didn't we would live as we pleased we would do whatever we wanted without worry even if your a good person it would be unfair to only have this for the evil people and more than that he wants more than a good person he wants an actual relationship with us which is why just being a good person isn't enough
 
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#39
Willie this is a very good thing to discuss as long as it's not in the bdf:b His reasoning of this isn't wrong and God doesn't strike us with lightning for questioning his ways of punishment in fact he welcomes it because he understands how it doesn't make sense to us. I could answer it by saying our understand it like comparing our understanding of the word from an ant to a human but that doesn't help or answer the heart of issue and honestly seems like a response when we don't know the answer.

The question by many non believers is if God is so loving then why does he throw all who don't follow him into the lake of fire. I mean it's not an illogical question and kind of makes God seem like a self conceited being, I mean think about it he loves us soooo much but if we don't love him back or follow him or obey him we burn forever. Honestly this is perhaps one of the hardest questions to answer because it honestly makes sense as to why one would think that.

I don't know if this is the answer you are seeking but I wanted to give my understanding of it. if one has been a parent they learn that if you let them do whatever they please and if you never discipline them or punish them they can become the worst kind of people in all kinds of ways and if there is no consequence then it doesn't matter what anyone does. Just as if there is no heaven or not eternal life in the end anything we do doesn't really matter it doesn't affect anything when we are dead and few ever make their marks in history if we don't have a consequence for our actions on earth then why does it matter if we are good or bad if we follow him or seek our own life's pursuits?

Jesus is known as both a lamb and Lion, a lamb is meek and gentle but a Lion is strong fierce and is feared. if God was passive all the time we would not have any need to do anything for him we could live the most sinful life in the history of man kind and yet still go to eternal paradise. It's not that he enjoys showing his wrathful side or throwing us into the pit of fire in fact it hurts his heart when he has to but if he didn't we would live as we pleased we would do whatever we wanted without worry even if your a good person it would be unfair to only have this for the evil people and more than that he wants more than a good person he wants an actual relationship with us which is why just being a good person isn't enough
Even I, who often disagree with Jeff, can't buy eternal Hell as being equivalent to punishing our children. I administered temporary punishments so my kids would learn. When's the last time any sane person killed one of their children to help them learn to be better? We don't even threaten our children with such a thing, hoping we can control them through fear of death. No, even I can't see that as a sensible argument.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
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#40
Truthfully? The two boys (I think it was two) who reached out to steady the ox cart with the ark in it when it hit a bump in the trail? An act instinctively done in protection and good faith. Zap! Dead on the spot.
2 Samuel 6:6But when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out toward the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen nearly upset it. 7And the anger of the LORD burned against Uzzah, and God struck him down there for his irreverence; and he died there by the ark of God.…

It was just one guy Uzzah..... But ultimately David's fault because he knew that the ark was to be moved with poles carried by the Levite priests...... If it had been moved the way God specified no one would have died. But even we today don't do as we are asked and instructed by the good book (Bible).....