How would you answer?

Even I, who often disagree with Jeff, can't buy eternal Hell as being equivalent to punishing our children. I administered temporary punishments so my kids would learn. When's the last time any sane person killed one of their children to help them learn to be better? We don't even threaten our children with such a thing, hoping we can control them through fear of death. No, even I can't see that as a sensible argument.

But think about it Willie, say God let anyone into heaven no matter how evil that person was no matter how bloody their souls the people they hurt if there is no consequence for how we live how we treat others then it doesn't matter what we do or how we live because we go to heaven anyways. That's literally a free ticket sin

Its not a matter of blind allegiance but an acknowledgement of justice. The so called evil that people attribute to the Lord is not a matter of God being brash but of His obedience to His covenant with Israel. Blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. It reveals His faithfulness to His word.

Now outside of Israel you may point to His dealing with man and cry, "Evil!" But if such men have transgressed His law, and the penalty has been plainly stated, then a sentence is due. That sentence is death. Its the reality of being on the polarity of God. If you are not in light you are in darkness. If you are cold, you are without warmth. These are polarities, and if someone wishes to deny God, to be without Him inevitably they are without all the positive things that are on that side of the polarity.

Now, how do you explain this plain-faced to someone? You don't drop your conscience but you become keenly aware of the righteous demands of the Lord. All fall short of His glory and His heart is revealed in His plan of reconciliation. Jesus Christ dying on the cross and resurrecting on the third day, paying man's penalty for sin. God wants reconciliation, while yet we were sinners.

The implication here is that we question God, who is righteous and say His acts are unrighteous. This puts us on a moral high ground, a foundation that slips. Can man accuse God of evil? He can, but this would be in ignorance to God as judge, the judge that has deemed us guilty. By what standard do we judge God? Subjectively or by His own standards? If they are His own He proves to be innocent. You could make your case against God, but you'd be a hypocrite as you've already fallen short. It still remains, however, that God being the very standard of righteous, stands holy and undefiled.

The point of the article falls flat, because it insinuates the "victims" as innocent. They aren't.

Its not a matter of blind allegiance but an acknowledgement of justice. The so called evil that people attribute to the Lord is not a matter of God being brash but of His obedience to His covenant with Israel. Blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. It reveals His faithfulness to His word.

Now outside of Israel you may point to His dealing with man and cry, "Evil!" But if such men have transgressed His law, and the penalty has been plainly stated, then a sentence is due. That sentence is death. Its the reality of being on the polarity of God. If you are not in light you are in darkness. If you are cold, you are without warmth. These are polarities, and if someone wishes to deny God, to be without Him inevitably they are without all the positive things that are on that side of the polarity.

Now, how do you explain this plain-faced to someone? You don't drop your conscience but you become keenly aware of the righteous demands of the Lord. All fall short of His glory and His heart is revealed in His plan of reconciliation. Jesus Christ dying on the cross and resurrecting on the third day, paying man's penalty for sin. God wants reconciliation, while yet we were sinners.

The implication here is that we question God, who is righteous and say His acts are unrighteous. This puts us on a moral high ground, a foundation that slips. Can man accuse God of evil? He can, but this would be in ignorance to God as judge, the judge that has deemed us guilty. By what standard do we judge God? Subjectively or by His own standards? If they are His own He proves to be innocent. You could make your case against God, but you'd be a hypocrite as you've already fallen short. It still remains, however, that God being the very standard of righteous, stands holy and undefiled.

The point of the article falls flat, because it insinuates the "victims" as innocent. They aren't.

My Blondness will be showing here but what exactly was the question?

But, He does. And He will. That is the whole point of the parable of the day laborers. It wasn't fair to them, nor is the bad people that will get into Heaven at the last minutes of their lives fair in our estimates.

I have never followed Jesus out of fear of anything. I want to please Him, nothing more. I have never felt right with the atmosphere of fear so many Christians seem to live in.

I just find it foreign to do good out of a fear of Hell.

That's not what i am saying, we shouldn't live in fear of hell and shouldn't be why we go to him the question was about why he does that and as for being saved at the last second that is indeed an amazing thing but I am talking about those who live as they please and never accept him ever

Truthfully? The two boys (I think it was two) who reached out to steady the ox cart with the ark in it when it hit a bump in the trail? An act instinctively done in protection and good faith. Zap! Dead on the spot.

I could answer myself but I thought this was a clearer answer...

The Ark of the Covenant was an embodiment of God's presence with the Israelites. The atonement cover (or "mercy seat") that covered the ark was God's throne (2 Sam 6:2) and God's presence was above it (Lev 16:2); it was also the place where God met Moses and gave him commands (Ex 25:22). If someone approached the ark, they would effectively be in God's presence - a sinner standing before a holy God who does not tolerate evil (Ps 5:4-6) - and would die as a result of their sins. For this reason, God had given the Israelites many rules concerning the Ark of the Covenant. It was to be kept in the Most Holy Place in the temple, hidden from view by a curtain (Ex 26:33). Only the high priest could enter the Most Holy Place, and then only after he had undergone ceremonial cleansing, made sacrifices to atone for his sins and the nation's sins, and burned incense to conceal the atonement cover (Lev 16). When the ark was moved, it was covered with at least 3 layers of cloth by the priests to protect others from seeing it (Num 4:5-6, 15, 18-20); the priests/Levites carried it and everyone else had to stay about a thousand yards away (Josh 3:4). These laws enforced the concept of God's holiness: sinful people couldn't be in his presence, not even the high priest.Hence, when Uzzah touched the ark, he was profaning it and disobeying God; he should have grabbed the poles used for carrying the ark instead, for that was their purpose (Ex 25:14-15). And as Glenn Miller points out in his response, the ark shouldn't have been on a cart anyway, but should have been carried on people's shoulders (1 Chr 15:15).
The Israelites who looked in the ark were actually violating several laws: they came near to the ark (a violation if they weren't Levites), they looked at the ark, they touched the ark and they moved the atonement cover, which was God's symbolic throne. Since God's presence was on/over the ark, they were actually coming into the presence of God - and without the least sense of reverence towards him, since they decided to poke around and play with his throne! Is it any wonder they died?

Why did God kill people who touched the Ark?

We really haven't even moved off the starting gate. It seems you are still saying God planned the fear of hell so that we would be afraid of NOT doing good.... in order not to be sent there.

I think you missed the point. It was said that God gave all kinds of warning time (like 400 years) before he acted against people. Don't think those kids acting out of an instinctive reaction got that process.

If that is how you are interpreting me I'm sorry. However no I am not speaking of living in fear of hell I am saying that if there is no consequence for our actions we do whatever we please. We humans are very much like children with him, if a child does wrong and is not punished killed, and sent to eternal flames??? they get from bad to worst to pure spoiled and horrible child, and yes it may seem a bit harsh????????? for eternal damnation but again if an evil person such as hitler went to heaven not ever accepting christ and with the blood on his hands the ppl he tortured then it doesn't really matter who he was on earth does it?

it's not that we must fear hell but but if there is no accountability then well I can kill slaughter steal do whatever I please until I die can't I?

I still hear you saying the same thing. And "Yes" ya might see eternal damnation as seeming a BIT harsh. You send a kid to his room, and he thinks. Go to Hell, and there is no recourse... no learning... no change... You burn forever.

Willie where are you getting two people? Uzziah was the one who touched the ark. Did you read the comment I made? They knew better. They were transporting the ark incorrectly in the first place. He died because God is Holy. The Jews knew Gods commands concerning the ark. To obey is better than sacrifice. Uzziah learned that the hard way.

God disciplined His people more harshly in the earlier days because Israel was in its infancy.

Sorry, I guess I was thinking of Eli's sons, Hophni and Phinehas in 1 Samuel 4:11, since they were associated with the Ark. (Give an old man a break for missing one every now and then..... and Yes, I know I probably spelled their names wrong)

willie you have known me for a long time right? I have said that true love and relationship with God cannot be made in fear in the forums many times if you keep hearing me talk about fear of hell to be saved then think about me, you know me well enough i think do i seem like the kind of person to talk about salvation through fear or hell being the motive for being saved? You wanted an answer for the question instead of avoiding it or giving a vague general God is all knowing reply I took it head on.

What answer were you looking for exactly?