Major issues in reading the Bible.

Divorced. I look forward to your wisdom Willie-T. And thank you so much for not taking offense to my comments; I think that most other people would.

Thank you for that...and I will take your words to heart.

My "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", was a response to your discription of a negligent parent. The description that you gave, is much like the situation with that tree.

***
At that point in time Adam and Eve were very much like children; and if you have children, you understand that their level of comprehension is not on the same level as yours. Adam and Eve had never seen death; so when God told him " The day you eat of this tree you will surely die", there is no possible way they could have fully comprehended what he was saying.

Also, if you have children; if you saw a roach crawling on the ground, pointed it out to that child and told them to not touch it...a child, not fully comprehending the world...will still attempt to pick that roach to eat it. Even after you have told them not to; it is the nature of a child.

The serpent told Eve, " you will not surely die ; for the day that you eat of this fruit, God knows that you shall become like Him... knowing both good and evil." The serpent told the truth; there was no deception in his words.

And again, though Adam and Eve were adults in many ways they were much like children; easily swayed at the thought of being like their parent; and what child what didn't not want that?

If God did not want them to have the knowledge, then He should not have created the completely unnecessary tree and simply left; for it to be a constant temptation...to children. And then, when they did give in to their curiosity, God blamed and punished them.

My point on the marriage thing is did you want your wife to love you because she felt she had to, or because she had no choice?

I, of course would want her to do it because she chose to. But this is the thing; we were "young and stupid" when we got married, and we swore that we were in love. When she "fell out of love" with me and decided to leave, I of course was initially upset, but it was not my wish for her to suffer for the rest of her life in agonizing torture because she did not love me anymore. I wanted her to be happy, and if her being happy meant that she was no longer with me...then I was willing to accept that.

I did not feel like..."either you love me; or you die!"

But that is how God is. Who told you this?

And whoo!!!! What a choice! Love your God with all your heart and have complete, total, unwavering faith in Him...or suffer for all of eternity! THAT is the choice that Christians are faced with. THOSE are the consequences that they preach to people in order to motivate them to not sin, and to love God.

I do feel that Christians, once they developed a close relationship with God, their faithfulness comes out of genuine love and a desire to be obedient. But initially, and I am sure somewhere in the back of their minds; the consequences of what will happen to them if they DON'T love God terrifies them.

Chapel,
Like a lot of "Christians" who simply believe what they have been told to believe, you have shown that you have a ton of things all wrong. You can correct this... BUT NOT IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO.

Willie-T, Ariel82...and all others who have been patient with me.

I am reading, and putting great thought and consideration into your words; that is not to say that I will not challenge them.

I have a busy day ahead of me and will not have time to respond in the way that I really want to; at least not at this time. However, I wish to continue these discussions with you all, as your words help me to see that error in my ways of thinking... There is much more error where that comes from .

This discussion is not to be confrontational, or combative, or to ignore your wisdom... But it is truly a search for knowledge and understanding; I am using other sources as well, reading books, looking online, speaking face-to-face with spiritual leaders.

I believe in God. I believe He is an all powerful being who created all life in the universe. I believe that he gave us His son so that we no longer have to make blood sacrifices with animals to appease Him. And I do believe that it is through Jesus we can have salvation.

But going off of things that I have read...yes even the Bible...and more potently...what I have SEEN and EPERIENCED in life; I do not believe that He is an "all good" God. From a "Christian" viewpoint, God could ( and has) commit some of the most horrible atrocities and still be seen as not having a spot of darkness within Him. If God rapes a baby...then He must have done it for a "good reason" or it's somebody else's fault.

At least for now; I cannot see myself having total faith in a God such as this. I cannot be that blind.

More later guys. Thanks!

Willie-T, Ariel82...and all others who have been patient with me.

I am reading, and putting great thought and consideration into your words; that is not to say that I will not challenge them.

I have a busy day ahead of me and will not have time to respond in the way that I really want to; at least not at this time. However, I wish to continue these discussions with you all, as your words help me to see that error in my ways of thinking... There is much more error where that comes from .

This discussion is not to be confrontational, or combative, or to ignore your wisdom... But it is truly a search for knowledge and understanding; I am using other sources as well, reading books, looking online, speaking face-to-face with spiritual leaders.

I believe in God. I believe He is an all powerful being who created all life in the universe. I believe that he gave us His son so that we no longer have to make blood sacrifices with animals to appease Him. And I do believe that it is through Jesus we can have salvation.

But going off of things that I have read...yes even the Bible...and more potently...what I have SEEN and EPERIENCED in life; I do not believe that He is an "all good" God. From a "Christian" viewpoint, God could ( and has) commit some of the most horrible atrocities and still be seen as not having a spot of darkness within Him. If God rapes a baby...then He must have done it for a "good reason" or it's somebody else's fault.

At least for now; I cannot see myself having total faith in a God such as this. I cannot be that blind.

More later guys. Thanks!

All these declarative statements of what you know God said and did ties right in with you answering the question of "Why, then, would Jesus tell people to look at Him", instead of simply turning to their books that said all of the things you are repeating from turning to your own old testament, in order to learn who God really is?

"the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"

do you believe there was a literal tree? two literal first humans?

And he punishes us for not following his word or his rules and regulations perfectly.[/QUOTE


Thanks for starting this thread
1 Corinthians 2:7 No, we declare God's wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
I think that verse sums up this thread pretty well. What I believe is that we all deserve death for the sins we commit. But God gave us a way out by giving up Jesus. We don't need to worry about physical death because Jesus bought us from our sin. To say he punishes us for not following the rules is I think true. But think about it. Do we really deserve any better. I think the answer is no...but we get it anyway. If that makes since.

Yes and yes.

Every single Christian I have ever met, have all said to look to the Bible for answers. You are the one and only exception.

***

One final thing; then I really have to go for the day.

I have been a witness to many (nearly countless) bad things; and I am not unique in that aspect; it is something that is unfortunately common amongst many.

And being raised in the church, I was always told that Man was responsible for the bad things because he CHOSE to do bad. I was always told that Satan and his followers were responsible for the bad.

I am a naturally good artist. I practically popped out of the womb with a pencil and paper doing drawings. But despite this, there has been some of my art that people did not like, that people were able to point out the flaws in. And in this flawed art, I would instantly except that the reason it was flawed was because of me; because of something that I did wrong. I did not BLAME MY CREATION for being flawed.

It boggles my mind how Christians cannot see that a SUPREME ARCHITECT (God), who is in control of every single minute particle of everything...is totally, completely, blameless. It boggles my mind how Christians cannot see that this artwork, which is our lives, which is this world...is flawed, because the artist is as well.

I, of course would want her to do it because she chose to. But this is the thing; we were "young and stupid" when we got married, and we swore that we were in love. When she "fell out of love" with me and decided to leave, I of course was initially upset, but it was not my wish for her to suffer for the rest of her life in agonizing torture because she did not love me anymore. I wanted her to be happy, and if her being happy meant that she was no longer with me...then I was willing to accept that.

I did not feel like..."either you love me; or you die!"

But that is how God is.

And whoo!!!! What a choice! Love your God with all your heart and have complete, total, unwavering faith in Him...or suffer for all of eternity! THAT is the choice that Christians are faced with. THOSE are the consequences that they preach to people in order to motivate them to not sin, and to love God.

I do feel that Christians, once they developed a close relationship with God, their faithfulness comes out of genuine love and a desire to be obedient. But initially, and I am sure somewhere in the back of their minds; the consequences of what will happen to them if they DON'T love God terrifies them.