Former champion *atheist* willing to learn

Jesus was using irony. He didn't say John would not die until Jesus returned.
Peter said "what about him" Jesus was basically saying
"what business is that of your's."

It's like if you had a friend who was not happy about his wages who said to your
boss "what will you pay him," meaning you!
Your boss might reply "that's my business I will pay him double, triple, wages if I
want to."It doesn't mean your boss will give you extra money it just means he was expressing
that it is none of your friend's business how much he pays you!

One of the things you will need to discover about the bible is that context means everything.
You say you study medicine. If I gave you written instructions to "amputate that person's arm"
but instead of reading the rest you went and did it! Then later on you might find out that the instructions
actuality said "amputate that persons arm if the gangrene spreads!

The two instructions are quite different.

Ps please don't go chopping off someone's arm



John 21:20-23 NKJV
[20] Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also
had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, "Lord, who is the one who betrays You?"
[21] Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?"
[22] Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me."
[23] Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus
did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

Lol at the analogy...
But the things in medical science are precise and meanings are literal, not context. Like is said, i am not good at literature. But one thing comes to my mind after reading your post- if its all about context, as you and many people say, then word of a Holy G-d will become ambigous. A poor fellow like me will be devoid of its true meaning.. Why should Gospel be so cryptic?

Iamstuck - Each question has an answer, but if you are willing to be honest, your questions are
more like excuses not to look.

From what you are writing you are actually just raising doubts to the veracity of the gospels etc
rather than looking at what the message is they are trying to convey.

The gospel writers expected the end of the world to happen, so they did not write it down in
detail, as the community itself knew all the stories etc.

At around AD 70 with the fall of Jerusalem it became more important to record the details
as the witnesses where literally dying off, and the end was not coming.

These testimonies emphasised not the exact order of events but their core content.
So Jesus cursed a fig tree. It died. Was this in one day, or over a number of days?
Was this before or after certain other episodes. Now the writers wanted to convey
the message of power, but were not sure which time events took place, typical of an
eye witness report.

The gospel message is about how you live today and why you do things.

The gospels record various promises, but they were fulfilled within the testimony.
So John saw Christ come in power, in the transfiguration, not at some future time.
But the gospels will record a statement and then an event, without saying these
are connected, leaving it up to the reader to make the connection. So God tests
all of us, how interested are we really in Him, or is it just a fake self appeasement.

The gospel is cryptic, because it is saying the problem in life is within ourselves and our
relationship with God. Unless you actually change, become something different, with a
different spiritual viewpoint it will all be meaningless.

God in effect is saying, how you look at the world defines your conclusions,
there is no point making things obvious, because nothing in this relationship is obvious.

Just look at how you think about your parents and your brothers and sisters.
Suddenly things get very up and down. Because what actually governs all of us is our
emotional feelings and history of connections with individuals and issues in life.

So some things you will love and others hate. But this is not rational, but it is who we
are. How do we ever feel secure? Because we are born trusting our family, and returning
to that place warms our hearts. Maybe you are unaware of this reality of life.

Glad to have you join us. Welcome to CC.

Heloo Peter, i am just trying to clear sone doubts on this forum. I don't wish to attack or discredit anything. Pls keep in mind that a faith with doubts is no faith at all. I need to be certain. Thanks for insight and please answer my individual questions. Or you may choos e to skip and forget me forever.Whatever you do, be happy.

Thanks mate

Jesus never said John would not die.. It would help if you could quote the verse where you believe Jesus said this so we can look at the verses and reply to your question better..

It gets easier and clearer with time, I think you just have the New Testament at present, but to
complete the picture you need the entire bible the Old Testament. There are many references in the
NT which relate to the OT and many in the OT which relate to the NT. As you become more familiar with the
entire bible you will also find the answers to your earlier question about the Jews and the
choosing of one nation.

The bible is not one book, it's unique in that it has a number of authors who wrote the bible
under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit across a long period of time. These authors all have
different personalities, different writing styles, different ways of thinking and expressing themselves.
What becomes apparent when you read the entire bible is that despite this, there are common
themes through the entire bible. The one major theme a thread running through it is that
God the creator wants a relationship with mankind, He always did but sin got in the way.
The bible is an historical account (His story) of how God planned to bring man kind back to
Himself and find a solution to the sin problem.

Most other religions are a spin off from the bible or they have just one writer. But the bible is
real in a way other books are not. It shows mankind both at its best and worst, it does not try
to gloss other the problems, it shows all the bible characters warts and all at their best and worst.
It tells you when the disciples argued, it tells you when Jesus was tired, it tells you when
the most godly famous King committed adultery, it does not put a fake front out there for
people to read in the way politics does.

You are on a good start reading through the gospels, but maybe you should consider getting
the whole bible. Continue reading through the gospels and Acts but then it might be beneficial
to read Genesis and Exodus in the Old Testament. At the moment you are reading a book
half way through.

May I make a suggestion that you pray and ask God to help you understand what
you are reading. I don't know if you have ever tried praying but I just talk to God just as if
I would any other person. There are no special words, no magic formulas, no postures to
stick to. Just words either in your mind or spoken out loud.

If you come across something you don't understand, write it down ask God to help you and
keep it for later. The answers will come later honest.

You can always ask on here as well but for the time being it might be easier to post
any question in the miscellaneous forum. The bible study forum may be a bit too
intense and heavy going for you at the moment.

The bible is so hard that a professor would find it hard to understand, but at the same time
it is so easy that a uneducated illiterate person can understand it. I know that sounds a
contradiction but the more you read and pray for understanding, the more you will
realise that is true. It's a book that can just be read like any book in a logical way - if you do it
that way you won't understand and you will miss the whole bigger picture. But if you read it
with eyes and a mind wide open under God's guidance that your understanding will be
open and you will just get it.

I know you are thinking I'm mad now! But i'm not in need of a psychiatrist, besides there are two
in my church along with a large medical contingency who are part of the congregation. Lol

But give it a go, put preconceived ideas to one side and be open to what God wants to show you.

Iamstuck - you have just made a mistake. Faith is always about doubt, or other possibilities.
Our faith is in the nature of God and His intention to act. But that might not be clear in
particular situations, and our understanding is always limited so trust is a key ingredient.

In science Popper made a distinction between provable knowledge and metaphysics or the study
of the unknown. Provable in a pragmatic way, is a series of events which are 100% reproducable,
which deny a theory or proposition. Science is odd in a way as it focuses more on disproving suggestions
with the understanding the current model is only an approximation.

There was an idea in the past that absolute certainty was possible. Unfortunately it has been shown
everything in the final analysis relies on assumptions, which are not provable, but taken on faith.
In faith I have come to realise the more you know God, the more truth becomes clear, but it is
in proportion to that knowledge and relationship, so nothing is ever objective. Objectivity in itself
is an illusion.

Let me put a simple scientific point to show this reality. What is energy?
Well everything we know, yet all we experience is the forms of energy, and how it effects things,
but we do not know what it is. Or gravity, or magnetism. We can describe the effects and where
it obviously occurs, but we do not know what it is. But every single day of our lives we see the
effects worked out.

In faith there is the idea of eternity. God dwells in eternity. But how can you be outside time,
because everything has a beginning and an end, but only within time. These are just some of the
paradoxes we face.

Yes God chose the Jews to reveal his will to the world. This does not mean the Jews where somehow spiritually superior to anyone.. God Just chose to create a people from the descendants of Abraham and demonstrate through His interactions with them His will for mankind.. As The Bible shows God himself called the Jewish people a stiff necked people.. meaning they where hard people to deal with. Time and time again they rebelled against Gods will and failed to follow Gods directives.. Thus via demonstration God revealed through them the problem of faulty human nature and humanities inability to achieve perfection in this world.. And so through Jesus He introduced mankind to the solution / way to God to reconcile humanity back to an eternal relationship with God..

Jesus did indeed equate a gentile woman to a dog and the Jewish people to a child.. But he did so to make the meekness and faith of the gentile woman a public show for the Jews who witnessed it. He faith put the Jews to shame.. In the OT God was dealing mostly with the Jews.. So they where as a race protected from annihilation and as such other people where forced out of their way or if they came into conflict they suffered defeat.. But you also must know that the Jews themselves came repeatedly under the punishment of God.. By God allowing the Assyrians and the Persians and at times the Egyptians to defeat and subjugate the Jews to slavery.. The Jewish experience was often one of strife and defeat.

So Jews are not special people in regard to their own qualities as human beings.. They became special in regard to God using them as a medium to reveal His will to the greater world..

This just made me laugh. How on earth could someone brought up in
Azerbaijan now living in Scadinavia come up with "thanks mate!"

Me thinks you have been watching lots of TV. Lol

Very cool to have you here, Iamstruck. I can relate to your search to be real and honest and reasonable about our beginnings and purpose as people.

There are VERY readable versions of the Old and New Testament online from which to choose. Once you find a few that work for you read them through. There is a great app for your phone called You Version that has a variety of Helps like "read-thru" programs to keep you on top of a reading schedule, if that is an aid. I like "The Message" by Eugene Petersen as a transliteration of the Bible. For a good study Bible I like NASB (New American Standard Bible).

It is important to have people you can trust and share with on your "quest" - a place like this is good and anonymous (if that is important at this stage), but I say, be courageous and put yourself out there and find some people who are emotionally mature and well experienced in Christianity and just hang with them.

Would love to chat with you on here, maybe we can meet up online?

It is best to select the [reply with quote] option at the bottom of the post you want to reply to.. In that way people will know who your replying too..

Also as i said at the start you are going to get different answers in here and sometimes your going to get people who will think you are not genuine and question your motives.. It is up to you who you wish to read and discuss things with an who you decide not to talk with..

Hi, Iamstuck. I'm excited for you, you're taking a step in the right direction wanting to read the NT. If you ask Jesus into your heart I guarantee you will find the bible much more appealing and much more rewarding. Like other people suggested I think you should get the full bible and I recommend the book Ecclesiastes. It's written with the non-believer in mind. Solomon (The guy who wrote it) was a very intelligent man and he literally had everything when he realised that a life without God is no life at all. God Bless!

Offtopic:I have travelled a lot. I didnt tell all of my life history, did i? Anyways i learned that from aussies. They use mate with almost everything in every setting.Airport security guy addressing you as mate is also not rare.

The Jews were the people God chose to bring blessing to ALL people through the Messiah Jesus. EVERYONE and ANYONE can accept Him and have eternal life.

There is NO other Name that can save besides Jesus Christ. Focus on Him, and His finished work on the cross and His subsequent resurrection.

If the Jews, in a national, corporate sense, HAD accepted their Messiah then you and I and all gentiles would have been lost. What an incredible, merciful, gracious Lord we have!

Well thanks for the info. If i was not genuine then i would not spend so much time reading NT and Psalms, Proverbs, etc. Trolling some online forum is perhaps the worst passtime. I don't indulge in such nonsense. I came here to interact with Real Christians in a healthy and fruitful way. People are people i totally understand thanks.

As an aussie i can confirm this ha ha ha ha..

You don't have to convince me Ianstuck... I was talking about other people here.. Not me..