OK so...here you are finally NOT dodging the Unicorn analogy...and are also now revealing you have an absolutely absurd view. With your position, NOTHING can be proven to within reason...if it is something outside of someone's direct view. So, creation can't be ascertained within a reasonable, believable degree. Noah's flood..the same thing. The resurrection...the same thing. On and on.
I don't believe there are one-horned ponies on the earth. But can I saw with absolute certainty that there aren't any in some jungle deep in Africa living near a minature Brontosaurus? No, I can't, because I haven't been there. I don't think they exist. But if someone said he went to this place and saw them, and posted in on a forum, I wouldn't have any need to call him a liar. Maybe he believes it. Maybe someone glued a horn to a pony. It doesn't matter.
But spiritual gifts do matter. And we aren't talking about mythical beasts. We are talking about:
1. The teaching of scripture which teaches the Spirit gives the gift of the working of miracles as He wills.
2. Probably thousands of records of miracles, accounts of miracles, and nowadays, a multitude of online videos of a variety of healings, miracles, etc.
We haven't defined 'miracle' whether all supernatural healings fit in that category or not.
I mention evidence for you to examine, like Keener's Miracles which apparently documents a large number of them, historic.
That is dishonest conjecture for the sake of being patronizing. Who said I was "upset"?
Your post read like rants. It's hard to imagine someone who is calm randomly accusing people of lying and dishonesty for no reason. But I suppose you could be calm and have some engrained anti-social and sinful communication habits.
Well no, it's just that you dodged the analogies...but now you've addressed at least one of the analogies...and you're trying simultaneously to now 'lecture' me about my previous (and accurate) observation that you had dodged the analogies - LOL. You're a piece of work. Wow.
What does a Bible reference have to do with the fact that any normal-thinking person realizes there are no unicorns in the world today?
Oh my goodness - LOL. What's with these dishonest, patronizing references to being "upset"? And why such a weird assertion...that you don't have to discuss the analogy. What does that even mean? You HAVE now discussed the analogy. And your answer reveals an absolutely bizarre worldview that negates Christian apologetics and negates ANY investigation that relies on ANYTHING other than direct personal contact.
Again, plenty of evidence. It is not unicorns.
Wow. Are you under the impression you've actually concealed your condescending arrogance?
Is that another dodge from you? I have said over and over and over and over...I am NOT talking about, for example, elders anointing with oil and praying for healing from cancer. Those things ARE happening all day long. What is NOT happening is what I have described to you over and over -- Jesus-style miracles. A guy stuck in a wheelchair for forty years...or stone-blind for life...with plainly visible atrophying of the limbs and plainly visible 'dead eyes'.
If you want to say something, say it clearly, without the accusations and comments, railing, and insults, and you can get your point across.
No that is NOT what I am doing. And we're back to this Unicorn analogy...where you think it is impossible to execute a reasonably thorough research of the world we live in and make a reasonably certain determination there are no Unicorns. That's a "critical thinking" problem I cannot help you with.
Why do you not believe that I Corinthians 12 is true? Why do you not believe what the scripture teaches when it says that the Spirit gives individuals the gifts of healing and the working of miracles? What do you now believe these scriptures are true today. Why do you continually dodge this question?
I don't happily make a statement like that but...when someone says they can't prove to a reasonable degree there are no Unicorns...that is completely and totally "off the reservation". That's waaay out there. It just proves how far you're willing to go to defend your tongues-speaking views. I don't believe even YOU believe one can't reasonably disprove Unicorns. Oh well.
No, I do not. Theists use logic, reason and evidence. Atheists use illogic. And atheists can't even examine so much as a quadrillionth of the universe. By contrast, I have a reasonable opportunity to come to a reasonably certain conclusion there are no Unicorns on earth and no Jesus-style miracles.
He also said to certain individuals, "According to your faith, be it unto you."
Well, you wouldn't need to monitor all those programs. If anything HAD happened at any of those church services (and it hasn't)...it would be on YouTube with 50 million "views".
There are videos that look like real healing videos on YouTube. Are you telling me, if you saw them, you would automatically believe them? I would imagine the answer is no. The answer is no for a lot of people, too. So no, if there was a real healing on TV or on YouTube, it would not be the case that everyone would believe it, including news people. You seem to think you have superior reasoning skills to me. So put them to work on this matter as well.
This is where I am seeing you don't understand there is a very valid and effective process whereby we can conduct a very systematic and reasonably thorough worldwide search of the available evidence...OR LACK THEREOF.
Now you insist on 'Jesus style miracles.' That was your objection to the Delia Knox video. Now I see your clarifying that you don't believe in "Jesus style miracles" occuring. But I don't see where you have defined your terms. Is an individual laying hands on someone else in Jesus' name who is healed, but it isn't from totally atrophied legs to jumping up and down... do you think that's possible? Do you believe the passage about the Spirit giving gifts like the working of miracles and the gifts of healing is true?
I believe the Information Age is divine providence for the last days...so that God's people have a reasonable opportunity to debunk all the emerging deception and fakery in the church world these days. BUT...most will be deceived. And most in the church world ARE deceived.
By the way, I don't see you warning ANYONE about anything or any false prophets. You've tied your own hands with your own pseudo-rules about pointing out dangerous 'false teachers'.
Prophesying in the last days is not an identifying characteristic of a false prophet. Jesus commended those who received a prophet in the name of a prophet. He warned about false prophets. Then He said He would send prophets. In Acts, there were prophets in the church. There were apparently prophets up in Corinth as well. Ephesians 4:11 shows us that Jesus gave prophets after He ascended.
Jesus said you would know them by their fruits, not by what time period they are prophesying in.
Good thing for Paul you weren't there when he busted Peter for his false teaching. You would've charged Paul with "slander" and told him he was headed for the "hottest parts of Hell" and told him he was a satanic "accuser of the brethren". Ouch.
If you posted something on your blog where you point out a specific (legitimate) point of false doctrine a singer or teacher had taught, I don't have a problem with that. If you suggest a singer might be involved with the occult because his album has a font of his name that resembles a letter from the alphabet used to write Old Norse or some other Germanic language, that's the sort of thing I'll point out.
As I recall, I asked you which part of Hell was hotter, the part for slanderers or the part for people who... then mentioned some nonsense argument of your from your blog, holding arms a certain way or a bridge in the background or whatever. I didn't say you were going to the hottest part of hell. If our places were reversed, you'd accuse someone of lying or dishonesty over that. I didn't say you were going to the hottest part of Hell. But you do accuse brethren. If you are pointing out real and specific sin, that's okay if you do it right. But random accusations of dishonesty isn't doing it right.
The Devil doesn't own the eye shape. God made it. If a bridge behind someone looks like an eye, that doesn't make the person evil. The devil doesn't own whatever angles we can hold our arms out to the side. Doing jumping jacks doesn't make someone evil. Standing on a chair and holding ones arms out to the side, but not completely perpindicular to their body, doesn't make them evil.
Again, if just asking question about whether someone is in the occult is okay, would be okay for me to put a big picture of your face on a billboard with the caption, "Does this man molest kids?" I don't have any evidence for the accusation, but if it's okay for you to ask the questions about Christian celebrities based on such nonsense evidence, why can't I do the same for you? You seem to be dodging this question as well.
Would it be love for me to put your face on a billboard with that question above it?
Where and when were you going to boldly warn people about all the super-popular super-pastors on the scene today? Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, on and on. Or do you not recognize any of these false prophets?
I never moved any bar. It's always been about "Jesus-style" miracles.
Do you believe people can be healed instantly when elders pray for them? If they are healed gradually, do you think it is an 'anti-Jesus miracle'? My impression is that you tend to rail against anything modern that resembles a miracle. I am glad you allow for God to do some healing these days.
The healer guy's behavior was inappropriate. He is deliberately kicking up dust, creating emotional hoopla and manipulation. The classic "traveling salvation show" barnstorming nonsense. To me, it is highly inappropriate and unseemly. I also saw what appeared to be fake miracles and I also saw people undergoing this ultra-creepy 'VooDoo shaking'.
The Bible doesn't teach that stirring emotions is sinful. I am not aware of any warnings against it either. There are commands that imply the emotions are to be engaged in certain cases, e.g. 'rejoice.'
Because you do not understand nor accept that many witches and warlocks have infiltrated the conservative church world...therefore, it doesn't fit into your head there are these false prophets operating undercover.
Jesus' teaching on false prophets doesn't make his teaching on genuine prophets and genuine healing false. It doesn't make I Corinthians 12 false. Early Christians lived in a time where there were genuine healing, genuine preachers, genuine prophecy, and false prophets out to deceive. Modern Christians live in the same type of world. Proportions of these things may be different at different times.
A pastor friend of mine who I have since helped to "convert" away from Pentecostal/Charismatic practices, first began to realize something was waaay wrong...when he was completely healed of a rather serious case of "athlete's foot" at a Benny Hinn convention. Through discussions with me and doing some of his own reading, he had begun to realize Hinn shows many signs of explicit Luciferian devotion, along with massive and consistent moral failure in his life (not to mention his fleet of private jets, private yachts and super-mansions!). So...when he received this creepy unasked-for "healing", it creeped him out big time and he left that whole scene behind once-for-all.