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Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?
I am, very much, a OSASer. It has everything to do with who is in control -- God or Man.
Who saves? God does! Does Man have any part of that salvation? Yes and no. No, in that Man contributed nothing to that salvation. Yes, in that Man is the receiver of that salvation. Sort of like if you skip a stone across the water, how much part in that action does the stone have? No stone, and nothing skips across the water.
We were dead in sin. Not fainted, not pressed down, not mixed up in. "Dead." Show me a dead man doing something for himself, and I'll show you God in action, not Man in action.
Okay, with me so far? (Not to be confused with "agreeing with me so far?" lol)
And then there is after salvation. Salvation is a one time act -- Jesus on that cross dying for whosoever-will-believe, aka those the Father has chosen. (Everyone knows John 3:16. Most ignore it keeps going on to John 3:17-21. At the end, God does the action, not Man.)
But, you're right. And then there is Saul. Jesus covered that too. The sower and the seed. Saul grew in rocky soil. What's the soil? God, right? Don't fall on deep rich soil, and you're gonna die without ever being saved. No doubt, Saul sucked up the nutrients from the soil, but his seed didn't land on soil. Soil landed on the rocks. Where the seed lands is also directed by God. What the seed does after that is also directed by God.
So after God saves, there is sanctification with the direct destination of glorification. (Doesn't feel direct, but always headed in that direction.) Sanctification is God setting us apart for his holiness. It is also us seeking his will in our lives to do that. (Good, rich, yummy soil from a plant's perspective.)
I'm really a OSASer. What people don't take into account is "and then what?" And then our roots dig deep into God's richness and will. We want to do God's will because God has put that into us. What's God's will? To trust him. To love him. To glorify him forever. If that isn't our goal, or if we do not persevere, then we were never saved in the first place.
And that is why I didn't kill myself. I teetered on the edge with that one to the point of knowing how to do it without anyone catching on that it was suicide. (I wanted to leave hubby my life insurance and hoped he wouldn't catch on that it was on purpose, although, looking back, I know he would have. What an evil thing suicide is for that person, and the people around her. To put that guilt onto someone else? NOT God's will!)
'kay? Did that help?
Hello Everyone,
I apologize if this is a topic that has already been debated to death. I did a topic search on both "Once Saved, Always Saved" as well as the subject of suicide, but I didn't find the specifics of what I was hoping people could answer.
I grew up in a church that does not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved, but several people whom I currently know and highly respect believe in this teaching, and their influence has led me to try to study it as in-depth as possible.
If a person believes that nothing they can do will compromise their salvation, what would keep them from committing suicide, if they came to that point? Would they refrain because God commands us not to kill?
And what about, what I personally call, "The Saul Dilemma"--in the Bible, King Saul opted to commit suicide rather than fall into the hands of his enemies and be subjected to their torture (1 Samuel 31).
If you had the option of killing yourself vs. falling into the hands of your enemies (or, let's say, a long-term, painful, and terminal illness), what would you do?
Am I understanding correctly, or would someone who believes in Once Saved, Always Saved be at peace with the thought of killing themselves, and yet still making it to heaven?
(I'm asking because this is the complete opposite of what I was taught as a child--we were told that suicide was pretty much a guaranteed ticket to hell, although they did say that in the end, only God knows.)
I am very new to the Once Saved, Always Saved teaching, so I apologize if any of my questions seem naive or out of place. However, I have not found a clear answer to these issues in my studies and would appreciate any input you may have.
Thank you, and God bless.
I apologize if this is a topic that has already been debated to death. I did a topic search on both "Once Saved, Always Saved" as well as the subject of suicide, but I didn't find the specifics of what I was hoping people could answer.
I grew up in a church that does not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved, but several people whom I currently know and highly respect believe in this teaching, and their influence has led me to try to study it as in-depth as possible.
If a person believes that nothing they can do will compromise their salvation, what would keep them from committing suicide, if they came to that point? Would they refrain because God commands us not to kill?
And what about, what I personally call, "The Saul Dilemma"--in the Bible, King Saul opted to commit suicide rather than fall into the hands of his enemies and be subjected to their torture (1 Samuel 31).
If you had the option of killing yourself vs. falling into the hands of your enemies (or, let's say, a long-term, painful, and terminal illness), what would you do?
Am I understanding correctly, or would someone who believes in Once Saved, Always Saved be at peace with the thought of killing themselves, and yet still making it to heaven?
(I'm asking because this is the complete opposite of what I was taught as a child--we were told that suicide was pretty much a guaranteed ticket to hell, although they did say that in the end, only God knows.)
I am very new to the Once Saved, Always Saved teaching, so I apologize if any of my questions seem naive or out of place. However, I have not found a clear answer to these issues in my studies and would appreciate any input you may have.
Thank you, and God bless.
Who saves? God does! Does Man have any part of that salvation? Yes and no. No, in that Man contributed nothing to that salvation. Yes, in that Man is the receiver of that salvation. Sort of like if you skip a stone across the water, how much part in that action does the stone have? No stone, and nothing skips across the water.
We were dead in sin. Not fainted, not pressed down, not mixed up in. "Dead." Show me a dead man doing something for himself, and I'll show you God in action, not Man in action.
Okay, with me so far? (Not to be confused with "agreeing with me so far?" lol)
And then there is after salvation. Salvation is a one time act -- Jesus on that cross dying for whosoever-will-believe, aka those the Father has chosen. (Everyone knows John 3:16. Most ignore it keeps going on to John 3:17-21. At the end, God does the action, not Man.)
But, you're right. And then there is Saul. Jesus covered that too. The sower and the seed. Saul grew in rocky soil. What's the soil? God, right? Don't fall on deep rich soil, and you're gonna die without ever being saved. No doubt, Saul sucked up the nutrients from the soil, but his seed didn't land on soil. Soil landed on the rocks. Where the seed lands is also directed by God. What the seed does after that is also directed by God.
So after God saves, there is sanctification with the direct destination of glorification. (Doesn't feel direct, but always headed in that direction.) Sanctification is God setting us apart for his holiness. It is also us seeking his will in our lives to do that. (Good, rich, yummy soil from a plant's perspective.)
I'm really a OSASer. What people don't take into account is "and then what?" And then our roots dig deep into God's richness and will. We want to do God's will because God has put that into us. What's God's will? To trust him. To love him. To glorify him forever. If that isn't our goal, or if we do not persevere, then we were never saved in the first place.
And that is why I didn't kill myself. I teetered on the edge with that one to the point of knowing how to do it without anyone catching on that it was suicide. (I wanted to leave hubby my life insurance and hoped he wouldn't catch on that it was on purpose, although, looking back, I know he would have. What an evil thing suicide is for that person, and the people around her. To put that guilt onto someone else? NOT God's will!)
'kay? Did that help?