Muslim Religion

[JosephsDreams]

Hey Peacenink...hows your diet? Give pea's a chance.
Seriously, guess what happened in my wanderings today? When the weather is nice here I go our to a local park and promenade shopping area to hand out tracts and talk about Jesus and prayer with people.
So today I ran into 3 youngish Muslim guys. We got to talking. I asked them point blank about Jesus. Nope, not the son of God. Not God in any sense. A prophet only, according to them.
I asked them what they thought about the phrase radical Islam. A invention of the Americans they said. I asked them why. They said because their book is clear about non Muslims, and it is not a radical concept to kill or subjugate non Muslims if they refuse conversion. These three quickly added that don't believe in violence, and that many Muslims don't, but it is not a radical idea or concept to Muslims or in Islam.
They said they wished Christians and Muslims could get along, and that they revere many of the same prophets we do. They said it is true Muslims are killing in the name of Allah, but Christians have done the same, and that we all have to stop.
They pointed out that Muslims are generally not as well educated as Christians, and that many Muslims in poorer less educated areas where they live are indoctrinated in hating and killing Jews and Christians, and other non Muslims.
These three young men spoke perfect or near perfect English. Little or no accent, They seemed to be well, or at least moderately educated. They seemed to have a gentle non violent way about them.
Considering the recent activity on this thread, I believe it was no chance meeting and dialogue with them.
Draw your own conclusions. And of course tell me why what they said that supports my arguments are wrong. You wouldn't be a Scorpion on top of the Frogs back if you didn't.

 

[ZEEK]

you are entitled to your opinion as we at CC have many wonderful Brothers and Sister around the world on our site. Please do not insult all in the geographical location because no one can know all but God thank you

Sorry, I'll rephrase that.

I think it is impossible to talk sense with many American Christians. Their previous President, a born-again Christian, launched a crusade against Islam. He then wiped out several million innocent Arabs, man woman and child, in the name of Jesus. Nice.

The present Christian incumbent has a transgender fixation, including trannie loos, and a trannie partner.

But let's be clear here. "Christian America" does not have a problem.

Killing half the world for no apparent reason and forcing the remaining half into gay servitude is the Lord's will, according to many American Christians.

Obviously there are some genuine Christians in America.

 

[kaylagrl]

Sorry, I'll rephrase that.

I think it is impossible to talk sense with many American Christians. Their previous President, a born-again Christian, launched a crusade against Islam. He then wiped out several million innocent Arabs, man woman and child, in the name of Jesus. Nice.

The present Christian incumbent has a transgender fixation, including trannie loos, and a trannie partner.

But let's be clear here. "Christian America" does not have a problem.

Killing half the world for no apparent reason and forcing the remaining half into gay servitude is the Lord's will, according to many American Christians.

Obviously there are some genuine Christians in America.

And how about answering my question? Does Israel have a right to exist?

 

[Bowman]

Are you sure you have the right context to that verse in 108? When I read it, I did not read it as "your Lord and sacrifice", I read it as "pray to your lord, and sacrifice" as in pray to him and make sacrifices to him. Apparently the people who copied the quran on the site I used to check this verse agree, as they had [to him alone] at the end of the verse (I dunno if this is added or if it is written in the quran itself, I only find out about verses from those who speak about it and look them up myself online)

I have written a 60 page exegesis on sura 108, and I am 100% confident that I have the correct interpretation of it...

For 108.2, 'inhar' is a noun (not a verb)...so no action is being taken by anyone....rather, it provides an epithet for who The Lord is....of which, anyone familiar with Biblical scripture will immediately recognize that it pertains to Jesus Christ as the Sacrificial Lamb.

I have also found through some research quran 4:171- "Oh people of the scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary was but a messenger of allah and his word which he directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from him. So believe in allah and his messengers, and do not say "Three": desist- it is better for you. Indeed, allah is but one god. Exalted is he above having a son. To him belongs whatever is in heaven and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is allah as disposer of affairs"
This verse clearly denies Jesus the Son of God, and God in the flesh.

Actually, rather than deny - it fully promotes Jesus as The Son...

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله​

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله​

وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله​

ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله​

إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في​

السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا​

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoonalahu waladunlahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spiritfrom him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son,truly his what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.

 

[Bowman]

Also, there are the verses in the quran about the unforgivable sin in Islam, putting someone on equal level with allah. Verse 4:48 and verse 4:116 both tell us that putting anyone on level with allah is an unforgivable sin. I have spoken with many Muslims online, and they all have comfirmed this, shirk is the unforgivable sin, and putting Jesus Christ on equal level with God (the reason He was crucified, and the teaching of the Gospel) is shirk.

The Islamic shahada places Muhammad in the same breath as allah....which, if Muhammad were just a mere mortal, then this would be the equivalent of Islamic blasphemy...and yet, Muslims think nothing of it.

Fact is...the Koranic 'Muhammad' (i.e. Praised One) is yet another epithet for the Biblical Jesus Christ...copied by the authors who penned the Koran....but lost to ignorance by islam..

 

[Bowman]

There is the verse in 4:153 that talks about the Israelites who worshiped the calf "after clear signs had been given to them", where the quran states "Even so we forgave them" (btw the fact that the quran often says "we" over "allah" or "he" always gives me chills for obvious reasons (who gave Muhammad the quran?)), but this is a contradiction, and not proof that Islam allows having one on equal level with allah. (the quran is known for contradicting itself). The quran still calls this "the unforgivable sin".

The Koran brings nothing new to the table....rather it mainly copies and paraphrases from the Holy Bible, which came before it.

4.153 was most likely copied from Acts 7.

The fact that the Koran refers to deity in the plural is simply a reflection of The Triune God of The Holy Bible.

I do not believe that using the quran alone is the best way to reach out to a Muslim. I believe that we can show them how it contradicts itself, but they must first know the Gospel is about Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, who called Himself the Son of Man, put Himself as equal with God, was crucified for blasphemy, and told us He would return to judge the world and be our King. They wont question the quran until then, because the quran tells us that allah has no son, it is unforgivable to say allah has any companions, and that Christ was only a messenger.

The quran has many verses about how this is "wrong" according to Islam.

We need to show them their Koran alongside its source, The Holy Bible...and how it refers the reader back to the Bible for the full details that islam conveniently forgot to mention...

 

[Tintin]

Because he's a muslim.

That would make perfect sense.

 

[Utah]

Sorry, I'll rephrase that.

I think it is impossible to talk sense with many American Christians. Their previous President, a born-again Christian, launched a crusade against Islam. He then wiped out several million innocent Arabs, man woman and child, in the name of Jesus. Nice.

The present Christian incumbent has a transgender fixation, including trannie loos, and a trannie partner.

But let's be clear here. "Christian America" does not have a problem.

Killing half the world for no apparent reason and forcing the remaining half into gay servitude is the Lord's will, according to many American Christians.

Obviously there are some genuine Christians in America.

Several million, my donkey. You're either a bold face liar or super scary brainwashed. Bush was in office roughly 2,900 days. No nuclear bombs were used therefore in order to kill millions with conventional weapons he would have been overseeing the killing of at least 3,000 people a day everyday for eight years. Wrong answer, try again.

 

[peacenik]

when the Lord Returns, those that were in error will find out the Hard way ... and I'm telling you now, that Jesus is the only name by which we can be saved, and I hope you start calling on it. If you read this post and spurn it, you might remember this post one day and regret not listening. so I hope you meditate on the Bible, and the Words in it, listen to what Jesus says, and learn to speak the truth, not personal opinions. because what I know is not an Opinion. it's what God himself has Taught me.

You write very nice words of Truth. One thing to always bear in mind is that Jesus condemned the Pharisees more than any other group. Pharisees were the religious hypocrites of their day - do goodies in their own little minds but full of hate, double standards, self righteousness, and projections of their sins unto others.

As Jesus taught, one may proclaim themselves a "Christian". But if they harbor hate and are judgmental then they are not true Christians as they will learn on the Judgment Day.

 

[peacenik]

Hey Peacenink...hows your diet? Give pea's a chance.
Seriously, guess what happened in my wanderings today? When the weather is nice here I go our to a local park and promenade shopping area to hand out tracts and talk about Jesus and prayer with people.
So today I ran into 3 youngish Muslim guys. We got to talking. I asked them point blank about Jesus. Nope, not the son of God. Not God in any sense. A prophet only, according to them.
I asked them what they thought about the phrase radical Islam. A invention of the Americans they said. I asked them why. They said because their book is clear about non Muslims, and it is not a radical concept to kill or subjugate non Muslims if they refuse conversion. These three quickly added that don't believe in violence, and that many Muslims don't, but it is not a radical idea or concept to Muslims or in Islam.
They said they wished Christians and Muslims could get along, and that they revere many of the same prophets we do. They said it is true Muslims are killing in the name of Allah, but Christians have done the same, and that we all have to stop.
They pointed out that Muslims are generally not as well educated as Christians, and that many Muslims in poorer less educated areas where they live are indoctrinated in hating and killing Jews and Christians, and other non Muslims.
These three young men spoke perfect or near perfect English. Little or no accent, They seemed to be well, or at least moderately educated. They seemed to have a gentle non violent way about them.
Considering the recent activity on this thread, I believe it was no chance meeting and dialogue with them.
Draw your own conclusions. And of course tell me why what they said that supports my arguments are wrong. You wouldn't be a Scorpion on top of the Frogs back if you didn't.

Are you sure you didn't dream up that story? It sounds kinda imaginary but I'll take your word that it is so.

As for peas, no but I did have some mushrooms on my combo platter dinner and it was yummy beyond words.




By the way, how many Muslims have been killed by foreign imperialists today? Did they have a comment on that, by any chance??

 

[peacenik]

I do not believe you know the real Jesus Christ. Maybe if you spent less time on your progressive media sites, you could learn who He is and why you should speak out against false prophets.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Perhaps you need to re-read the New Testament so that you can learn who/what Jesus's true message is all about.

 

[ZEEK]

And how about answering my question? Does Israel have a right to exist?

Hi, I did not see your question until now.

I cannot answer that, as I haven't properly studied it. The concept of 'rights' is perhaps not the correct scriptural idea here though.

I can tell you that the notion of a return to an Israelite Homeland was repudiated by most Rabbis in the 19th & 20th Century, who believed a return to Israel was only permissible by divine mandate - not by human will.

The blood thirsty nation known as Israel that we see in the Middle East is attributed by Dr Stephen Jones (Gods Kingdom Ministries) to the Lord working out his promises to Esau (Edom).

What I can tell you with absolute assuredness is that God's will for all Jews is to accept Jesus. This can be done anywhere anytime, and does not require a parcel of real estate in the Middle East.

Paul totally repudiated the notion of Jewish supremacy. It is a vile notion. I speak as a jew in the flesh.

 

[ZEEK]

Several million, my donkey. You're either a bold face liar or super scary brainwashed. Bush was in office roughly 2,900 days. No nuclear bombs were used therefore in order to kill millions with conventional weapons he would have been overseeing the killing of at least 3,000 people a day everyday for eight years. Wrong answer, try again.

The middle east is being ethnically cleansed. The resultant mess is then being exported to Europe.


Unworthy victims: Western wars have killed four million Muslims since 1990 | Middle East Eye

 

[ZEEK]

And how about answering my question? Does Israel have a right to exist?

Europe historically has been Christian, and was the area predominantly settled by the tribes of Israel. The British for instance throughout their history knew that they were descended from the tribes of Israel. When King Henry VIII abolished the monasteries, a lot of records were destroyed, but the real damage was done by the Victorians, who obliterated our real historical identity. The logical place for the tribes of Judah and Levi in the last 2000 years is Europe, with the other tribes. All they needed to do was serve the Lord, and they would fit in fine. The problems start when, unlike the rest of the tribes, they repudiate Christ, and embrace Judaism.......

 

[JosephsDreams]

Are you sure you didn't dream up that story? It sounds kinda imaginary but I'll take your word that it is so.

As for peas, no but I did have some mushrooms on my combo platter dinner and it was yummy beyond words.




By the way, how many Muslims have been killed by foreign imperialists today? Did they have a comment on that, by any chance??

I didn't dream it up. Maybe you think I did because that is your style? Or maybe you don't believe in God's divine timing and appointments. Or maybe your just naturally cynical. I don't know...
You can even (mostly) verify it. Contact First United Methodist Church in downtown Burlington.
I'll even provide you with their website:
First United Methodist Church of Burlington , VT | A Worshipping Community, Walking in the Way of Jesus, Believing in Place
They had a food drive yesterday. These three Muslim men saw me handing out tracts and asked me if I knew of any homeless or hungry people who needed food or clothing and if I could spread the word around since I was talking to a lot of people. They said the church was offering this all day long yesterday.
Don't ask me why or how these three Muslim men got involved in this, I did not ask them that.
Call the church and ask them if they had a food drive yesterday, and if they had sent out or knew of any Muslim men that were spreading the word around Church Street Market Place and by the City Hall Park. Of course that won't verify that I actually met with them or had that conversation, but it goes a long way to proving I did not "dream up that story". Maybe you can even get their contact info and ask them yourself. Then you'll see I spoke the truth. I actually deal in facts. Then you can retract your dream statement.
Here is the link to that area, in case you think I am dreaming that up also.
Church Street Marketplace | Burlington, Vermont

 

[JosephsDreams]

Are you sure you didn't dream up that story? It sounds kinda imaginary but I'll take your word that it is so.

As for peas, no but I did have some mushrooms on my combo platter dinner and it was yummy beyond words.




By the way, how many Muslims have been killed by foreign imperialists today? Did they have a comment on that, by any chance??

Your eating mushrooms? What kind of mushrooms? Are you posting before or after you eat them? That might go a long way in explaining the fantasy content of some of your posts.

Sorry brother, I could not resist that jab...

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Perhaps you need to re-read the New Testament so that you can learn who/what Jesus's true message is all about.

Yes, peacenik. You are right.

I will stop speaking out against false prophets who deny our Lord Jesus Christ, the One who told us in His own words is the only way to God. That without Him, no one can be saved. The One who was prophecised to take the place of the lamb for our sins.

From now on, I will sit quitely as Muslims tell followers of Christ that its a sin to follow our Lord Jesus Christ, that the Gospel is wrong, that He was only a prophet of allah who came to tell us to worship allah. I will no longer speak out against a false doctrine created by the enemy to destroy as many people as they can, because they know that they are dead themselves.

How dare I take Christ's commands to share the Gospel with all men seriously, meaning that I would clearly have to deny false prophets who deny Him publicly, in order to show others the dangers of following a false doctrine.

May the Lord have mercy on me for wanting to reach out to those who have been decived into believing that Christ did not die for them, that God did not give us His only begotten Son, that whoever believe in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

You are clearly the one following the will of God, here. How could I be so wrong?

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

You write very nice words of Truth. One thing to always bear in mind is that Jesus condemned the Pharisees more than any other group. Pharisees were the religious hypocrites of their day - do goodies in their own little minds but full of hate, double standards, self righteousness, and projections of their sins unto others.

As Jesus taught, one may proclaim themselves a "Christian". But if they harbor hate and are judgmental then they are not true Christians as they will learn on the Judgment Day.

I think you missed the "Jesus is the only name by which we can be saved" bit in his post there.

Also I think your own pride is blinding you from what you are actually saying here. I would point it out to you, but I have already done so many times.

But I would like to point out again that I do not believe peacenik follows the word of God, but the word of the "progressive" left media, I remember how I painted Christ back in those days. Putting all the emphasis on the "dont judge" part of the bible without actually understanding what it means when people called me out on my sinful life. Its not that He doesnt want us to warn the world to repent and come to Him (thats literally what He did while He was here, He warned of hell, He warned man to repent, and He warned us He was the only way to God), He was telling us not to condemn our brothers when we have already condemned ourselves.

But that doesnt make it wrong to tell people the truth, if you do not come to Christ, you will die.

Sadly, peacenik seems to have that secular belief, everyones really a good person deep down, and if there is a God He will save them due to their good intentions. He has already stated that "We will know whether or not the Muslims will be saved in the end", completely ignoring the word of God, that we are all dead in our sins, and that Christ gave His life for them.

He does not rely on the word of God here.

 

[PlainWord]

First Seal: Muhammad (632 AD)

Rev 6: [SUP]2 [/SUP]And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Muhammad was a warrior. He conquered Medina and Mecca, destroyed the idols in Mecca and established ISLAM, which is Mystery Babylon, the Great Harlot religion of the earth. Muhammad rode a white "horse" like creature to Jerusalem then to Heaven, called Buraq. The Kaaba, in Mecca is Allah's (Satan's) temple. It's chief cornerstone is the Kaaba Stone, a black meteor fallen from the sky (Christians are given a white stone, Rev 2:17).

When Islamic worship music is played (5 times a day based on the position of the sun) all Muslims must fall down, face Mecca (the Image) and worship just as in the original Babylonian days of Daniel 3. Christians are taught to "love thine enemies." Muslims are taught to "kill the infidel."


Second Seal: Ottoman Empire, 50 million Christians killed

[SUP]3[/SUP]When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

The official color of the Ottoman empire was red. The Ottoman Empire's symbol (as today) is the crescent moon and star. We are commanded not to serve anything from the heavens (Exo 20:4). The Ottomans killed 1.75 million Christian Greeks from 1914 to 1922 and up to 3 million Armenian Christians from 1894 to 1922 alone. The Ottoman Empire was the 7th head of the Beast which was mortally wounded, yet lived and returns.


Third Seal: Income Inequality in Muslim World

[SUP]5 [/SUP]When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

Arab kings are filthy rich while their people are the poorest on earth. The 10 richest Arabs/Muslims are worth between $3.4B and $22.6B each!! The top 57 Muslim countries make up 1.4 billion people and yet their combined GDP is less than that of Germany. They have 22% of the world's population but less than 5% of its wealth. 1 in 5 Arabs/Muslims live on less than $2 per day. The planet’s poorest countries include Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan and Mozambique. At least six of the poorest of the poor are countries with a Muslim majority.


Fourth Seal: Jihadists

[SUP]7 [/SUP]When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]So I looked, and behold, a pale (GREEN) horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

The Horse is really "Green" (CHLOROS translated green everywhere else in the Bible), not pale. Green represents "Paradise" in Islam. Where do Jihadists think they go when the die in a terrorist act? Paradise to receive their 72 virgins. What are we told really follows them???? Death (both spiritual and physical) and Hades. How do they kill? By the sword (war), starvation, disease and by nations which sponsor terror (beasts of the earth).


Fifth Seal: Result of Islam, the Martyrs

[SUP]9 [/SUP]When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

The result of Islam is a huge population of martyrs in heaven awaiting revenge.


Sixth Seal: Christ revealed from Heaven

[SUP]12 [/SUP]I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”


Saudi Arabia alone has over 1 million slaves. Jihadists routinely forces women to become sex slaves. Muslims have the most literal kings of any religion by far. There are plenty of mountains, rocks and caves in the middle east to hide. Paul teaches when the revenge comes to those who have been killing God's people in 2 Thes 1:6-10).

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Are you sure you didn't dream up that story? It sounds kinda imaginary but I'll take your word that it is so.

As for peas, no but I did have some mushrooms on my combo platter dinner and it was yummy beyond words.




By the way, how many Muslims have been killed by foreign imperialists today? Did they have a comment on that, by any chance??

Of course, completely ignoring the actual verses in the quran that validate everything Josephsdreams said.

And about Muslims being killed by invading nations, many Germans died during WW2, not just soldiers btw. Civilians also died due to the war.

Should we ignore the holocaust happened because of this? Should we shift the spotlight of the event to the invading armies of the US and Russia? Does the fact that war happened in their land suddenly undo all that Hitler did, and those who willingly followed him?

The fact that Muslims die due to war in the Middle East doesnt change the fact that Jihad is a real thing in Islam. Also, much of the wars that happen there happen as a result of Islam. Hamas itself exist for the destruction of Israel. The world will tell you its a land dispute, but if you read sahih bukhari 52:177 (allah's apostle said, "the hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say "O, Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him") you would see how the waging war against the Jewish people is a part of their doctrine.

Jihad does not happen because "Muslims want vengence on the evil west", it happens because its a part of their religion. There are many many Christians who are being persecuted and killed by Muslims in the middle east, how many of them are building armies and attacking them back? As far as I know, none. And the reason is because that is not what Christ commands. Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you. That is not the case for Islam, however.