The truth about Muhammad "Feedback appreciated"

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soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
1,190
187
63
#22
11. Someone said to them, "do not do evil in the place." They said, "we're just mediators."

12. Really, they are evildoers, but they don't realize it.

13. Someone said to them, "believe like all men." They said, "can we be as credulous as fools?" Really, they are fools, but they don't know.

14. When they met the believers, they said, "we have believed." When they went back to their demons, they said, "we are indeed your allies. We are only fooling them."

Allah will repay them with their fooling, and will allow them to wander in rebellion.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
374
158
43
PDX
#24
The Truth about Muhammad
1) The messsage of Islam is intertwined with its messanger. Allegiance to one implies allegiance to the other.
2) Muslims who question Allah are usually tolerated by other Muslims, but questioning Muhammad is grounds for excommunication or worse.
3) Islamic theology has accorded him the title "al-Insan al-Kamil", which translates to "the man who has attained perfection".
4) Because of hadith and tradition, Muslim religion, culture, heritage, and identity all find their core in the person of Muhammad.
5) Muslims see an attack on Muhammad's character as equivalent to a personal attack on them and everything they stand for.
6) Islam comes from the same Arabic root word that means "peace". According to Muslims, the life of Muhammad rreflects this.
7) According to Muslims, on the day that Muhammad conquered Mecca, Muhammad forgave meccans despite their horrific treatment of Muslims.
8) According to Muslims, the other battles Muhammad fought were all defensive.
9) According to Muslims, Muhammad knew about subjects like embryology, astronomy, and geology, knowledge he could have attained only if Allah had revealed it to him. However, there are problems with many of the Quranic verses that are obvious to physicians and other scientists. For example, The Quran 23: 13-14 reads, "Then we made him a sperm in a fixed lodging. Then we made the sperm a hanging (thing), then we made the hanging into a chewed (thing), then we made the chewed into bones, then we clothed the bones with flesh, then we developed it into another crreation, so blessed be Allah, the best of creators." The verse explains the sequential development of an embryo, but the sequence is incorrect. An embryo does not first become bones to be later clothed with flesh. One layer of an embryo, the mesoderm, differentiates into bone and flesh at the same time.
10) The Quran: 9.5 But when the forbidden (four) months are over, then fight and kill the (distrusted) pagans wherever you find them, and catch them, attack them, and stay waiting for them in every stage (of war); But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then make it easy for them: Verily, Allah is Often Forgiving , Most Merciful.
11) The hadiths ( stories, sayings, rituals and traditions attributed to Mohammad) were written 200 to 250 years after Muhammad. From Muhammad to that time the stories were passed down orally.
12) Almost everything Muslims know about Muhammad comes to them orally, rarely from primary sources.
13) Unlike Christians learning about Jesus from the Bible, the Quran has very little to say about Muhammad.
14) The earliest records of Muhammad's life expressly admit that they have intentional alterations.
15) Muhammad's first biography, "Sirat Rasul Allah" by Ibn Ishaq comes down to our day only through the transmission of a later biographer, Ibn Hisham.
16) In his introduction, Ibn Hisham explains that he altered the story of Muhammad's life. "Things which it is disgraceful to discuss, matters which would distress certain people, and such reports as [my teacher] told me he could not accept as trustworthy--all these things I have omitted." Found in Ibn Hisham's notes; Guillaume, Life of Muhammad, page 691.
17) The hadith Sahih Bukhari consists of 9 volumes that almost all Muslims consider the most historically authentic.
18) In the first volume, the third hadith, Muhammad's first revelation in the Cave of Hira, instead of recounting that the angel simply asked Muhammad to recite, Muhammad reports that " the angel caught me forcefully and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore." Each time the angel asked Muhammad to recite, the angel applied unbearable pressure. After his encounter with the angel, Muhammad returned to his wife terrified, his "heart beating severely."
19) Volume 9 hadith 111 (9.1110 describes the same event. It said that when Muhammad saw Gabriel, his "neck muscles twitched in terror," and when Gabriel had gone for a while, the Prophet became so depressed "that he intended several times to throw himself from the top of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would apppear before him and say, ' O Muhammad. You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth, whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down."
20) In Volume 1 hadith 24, Muhammad says , " I have been ordered by Allah to fight against people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity...then they will save their lives and property from me."
21) The previous statement (#20) contradicts the Quran's clear statement that "there is no compulsion in religion."
22) Volume 1 hadith 25 says that the greatest thing a Muslim can do after having faith is to engage in jihad. As if to clarify what kind of jihad, Sahih Bukhari clarifies, "religious fighting."
23) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, the translator used Ibn Hisham's abridgement of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah. On page 676 Muhammad ordered a warrior to assassinate a mother of five, Asma bint Marwan. She was breastfeeding a child when she was murdered, her blood splattering on her children. When the assassin told Muhammad he had difficulty with what he had done, Muhammad showed no remorse.
24) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, page 464: in the aftermath of the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad captured and beheaded over 500 men and teenage boys from the Jewish tribe of Quraya. After the Muslims killed the men, they sold the women and children into slavery and distributed their goods among themselves.
25) This account is also found in both hadith and sirah (biographies).
26) Islam commands Muslims to have no more than 4 wives at a time, Yet Mahammad had at least 7 at one point. The Quran 33;50 says Muhammad had special privilege.
27) According to Sahih Bukhari, volume 7, hadith 62.64, 62.65, and 62.88 and Sahih Muslim 8.3310 and8.3311 Aisha was 6 when Muhammad married her, and he consummated the marriage with her 3 years later, when he was 52.
28) Muhammad had been poisoned; on his deathbed, he felt as if the poison was killing him; he had black magic cast on him. Sahih Bukhari volume 3 hadith 47 verse 786 (3.47.786). Also 5.59.713 and 4.54.490.
29) He revealed versus he later admitted had been from Satan. Guillaume's Life of Muhammad pages 165-166.
30) He tortured people for money. Ibid.,515
31) He led an attack on unarmed Jews. Sahih Bukhari 1.11.584
32) He caused his adopted son to divorce so he could marry his daughter-in-law, Zaiab. Quran 33.37; Sahih Muslim 8.3330; Tabari volume 8, pages 2-3
33) He told people to drink camel's urine. Sahih Bukhari 8.82.794; Sahih Muslim 16.4130
34) In the 1940s Martin Lings, an English scholar who converted to Sufi Islam, wrote an internationally acclaimed, comprehensive, and authoritative account of the life of Muhammad the prophet. The title of the book is "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources" It has been published in12 languages, and has received numerous awards, including acknowledgement as best biography of the prophet in English at the National Seerate Conference in Islamabad. The conference was attended by Muslim clerics from around the world. The chapter titled "The Threshold of War" seems to say that it was the Muslims who were the first aggressors against Mecca after Muhammad had migrated to Medina. Muhammad sent 8 Muslims to lie in wait for a Meccan trade caravan during the holy month. Even though this was a time of sacred truce for Arabs, the Muslims killed one man, captured2 others, and plundered their goods.
31) Most Muslims have a copy of the Quran but have never read any of the hadiths themselves. What they know about Muhammad is what they hear orally from a person called an Imam who leads them in prayer to Allah and tells them sugarcoated stories about Muhammad.
32) How can a man like Muhammad be a prophet of God? He certainly wasn't a man who had attained perfection. I hope this helps you understand what kind of man Muslims ignorantly glorify.
33) All of this information comes from a book written by a devout Muslim who converted to Christianity, Nabeel Qureshi. The title of the book is " Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus.
The sole issue I have with Muslims is how they view Isa (PBUH), yet it is marginally understandable. Muhammad PBUH knew Christians and Jews, yet decided to go his own way. I do not see a lot of difference between Muslims, Christians and Jews otherwise. Their thinking is that Allah SWT is the highest and most Devine and has no body, so can not procreate, so can not have a Son. I don't get too excited about the issue.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
3,751
644
113
#25
The sole issue I have with Muslims is how they view Isa (PBUH), yet it is marginally understandable. Muhammad PBUH knew Christians and Jews, yet decided to go his own way. I do not see a lot of difference between Muslims, Christians and Jews otherwise. Their thinking is that Allah SWT is the highest and most Devine and has no body, so can not procreate, so can not have a Son. I don't get too excited about the issue.
Please explain Allah's three daughters.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
374
158
43
PDX
#26
Please explain Allah's three daughters.
That is pre-Islamic. According to my lessons, the Arabs worshipped many Gods before Muhammad PBUH put a stop to it. I know most about the Sunni. The Shia are another matter.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
3,751
644
113
#27
The connection failed somehow



The devil found that the trick was detected, and wanted to achieve the goal by eliminating the website. It's impossible. There are many such websites
What was on that website?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
3,751
644
113
#28
That is pre-Islamic. According to my lessons, the Arabs worshipped many Gods before Muhammad PBUH put a stop to it. I know most about the Sunni. The Shia are another matter.
Why are they in the Koran?

QURAN
53
The Star
an-Najm

1 The Opening ........ al-Fatihah 2 The Heifer ......... al-Baqarah 3 Family of Imran .... Ali 'Imran 4 Women .............. an-Nisa' 5 The Table .......... al-Ma'idah 6 Livestock .......... al-An'am 7 The Elevations ..... al-A'raf 8 The Spoils ......... al-Anfal 9 Repentance ......... at-Tawbah 10 Jonah .............. Yunus 11 Hud ................ Hud 12 Joseph ............. Yusuf 13 Thunder ............ ar-Ra'd 14 Abraham ............ Ibrahim 15 The Rock ........... al-Hijr 16 The Bee ............ an-Nahl 17 The Night Journey .. al-Isra' 18 The Cave ........... al-Kahf 19 Mary ............... Maryam 20 Ta-Ha .............. Ta-Ha 21 The Prophets ....... al-Anbiya 22 The Pilgrimage ..... al-Hajj 23 The Believers ...... al-Mu'minun 24 The Light .......... an-Nur 25 The Criterion ...... al-Furqan 26 The Poets .......... ash-Shu'ara' 27 The Ant ............ an-Naml 28 History ............ al-Qasas 29 The Spider ......... al-'Ankabut 30 The Romans ......... ar-Rum 31 Luqman ............. Luqman 32 Prostration ........ as-Sajdah 33 The Confederates ... al-Ahzab 34 Sheba .............. Saba' 35 Originator ......... Fatir 36 Ya-Seen ............ Ya-Seen 37 The Aligners ....... as-Saffat 38 Saad ............... Saad 39 Throngs ............ az-Zumar 40 Forgiver ........... Ghafir 41 Detailed ........... Fussilat 42 Consultation ....... ash-Shura 43 Decorations ........ az-Zukhruf 44 Smoke .............. ad-Dukhan 45 Kneeling ........... al-Jathiyah 46 The Dunes .......... al-Ahqaf 47 Muhammad ........... Muhammad 48 Victory ............ al-Fath 49 The Chambers ....... al-Hujurat 50 Qaf ................ Qaf 51 The Spreaders ...... adh-Dhariyat 52 The Mount .......... at-Tur 53 The Star ........... an-Najm 54 The Moon ........... al-Qamar 55 The Compassionate .. ar-Rahman 56 The Inevitable ..... al-Waqi'ah 57 Iron ............... al-Hadid` 58 The Argument ....... al-Mujadilah 59 The Mobilization ... al-Hashr 60 The Woman Tested ... al-Mumtahina 61 Column ............. as-Saff 62 Friday ............. al-Jumu'ah 63 The Hypocrites ..... al-Munafiqun 64 Gathering .......... at-Taghabun 65 Divorce ............ at-Talaq 66 Prohibition ........ at-Tahrim 67 Sovereignty ........ al-Mulk 68 The Pen ............ al-Qalam 69 The Reality ........ al-Haqqah 70 Ways of Ascent ..... al-Ma'arij 71 Noah ............... Nuh 72 The Jinn ........... al-Jinn 73 The Enwrapped ...... al-Muzzammil 74 The Enrobed ........ al-Muddathir 75 Resurrection ....... al-Qiyamah 76 Man ................ al-Insan 77 The Unleashed ...... al-Mursalat 78 The Event .......... an-Naba' 79 The Snatchers ...... an-Nazi'at 80 He Frowned ......... 'Abasa 81 The Rolling ........ at-Takwir 82 The Shattering ..... al-Infitar 83 The Defrauders ..... al-Mutaffifin 84 The Rupture ........ al-Inshiqaq 85 The Constellations . al-Buruj 86 The Nightly Visitor at-Tariq 87 The Most High ...... al-A'la 88 The Overwhelming ... al-Ghashiyah 89 The Dawn ........... al-Fajr 90 The Land ........... al-Balad 91 The Sun ............ ash-Shams 92 The Night .......... al-Layl 93 Morning Light ...... adh-Duha 94 The Soothing ....... ash-Sharh 95 The Fig ............ at-Tin 96 Clot ............... al-'Alaq 97 Decree ............. al-Qadr 98 Clear Evidence ..... al-Bayyinah 99 The Quake .......... az-Zalzalah 100 The Racers ......... al-'Adiyat 101 The Shocker ........ al-Qari'ah 102 Abundance .......... at-Takathur 103 Time ............... al-'Asr 104 The Backbiter ...... al-Humazah 105 The Elephant ....... al-Fil 106 Quraish ............ Quraysh 107 Assistance ......... al-Ma'un 108 Plenty ............. al-Kawthar 109 The Disbelievers ... al-Kafirun 110 Victory ............ an-Nasr 111 Thorns ............. al-Masad 112 Monotheism ......... al-Ikhlas 113 Daybreak ........... al-Falaq 114 Mankind ............ an-Nas




Edition God

Edition God Edition Allah Videos Scenic Videos

In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. By the star as it goes down.
2. Your friend has not gone astray, nor has he erred.
3. Nor does he speak out of desire.
4. It is but a revelation revealed.
5. Taught to him by the Extremely Powerful.
6. The one of vigor. He settled.
7. While he was at the highest horizon.
8. Then he came near, and hovered around.
9. He was within two bows’ length, or closer.
10. Then He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
11. The heart did not lie about what it saw.
12. Will you dispute with him concerning what he saw?
13. He saw him on another descent.
14. At the Lotus Tree of the Extremity.
15. Near which is the Garden of Repose.
16. As there covered the Lotus Tree what covered it.
17. The sight did not waver, nor did it exceed.
18. He saw some of the Great Signs of his Lord.
19. Have you considered al-Lat and al-Uzza?
20. And Manat, the third one, the other?

21. Are you to have the males, and He the females?
22. What a bizarre distribution.
23. These are nothing but names, which you have devised, you and your ancestors, for which God sent down no authority. They follow nothing but assumptions, and what the ego desires, even though guidance has come to them from their Lord.
24. Or is the human being to have whatever he desires?
25. To God belong the Last and the First.
26. How many an angel is there in the heavens whose intercession avails nothing, except after God gives permission to whomever He wills, and approves?
27. Those who do not believe in the Hereafter give the angels the names of females.
28. They have no knowledge of that. They only follow assumptions, and assumptions are no substitute for the truth.
29. So avoid him who has turned away from Our remembrance, and desires nothing but the present life.
30. That is the extent of their knowledge. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who has accepted guidance.
31. To God belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. He will repay those who do evil according to their deeds, and recompense those who do good with the best.
32. Those who avoid gross sins and indecencies—except for minor lapses—your Lord is of Vast Forgiveness. He knows you well, ever since He created you from the earth, and ever since you were embryos in your mothers’ wombs. So do not acclaim your own virtue; He is fully aware of the righteous.
33. Have you considered him who turned away?
34. And gave a little, and held back?
35. Does he possess knowledge of the unseen, and can therefore foresee?
36. Or was he not informed of what is in the Scrolls of Moses?
37. And of Abraham, who fulfilled?
38. That no soul bears the burdens of another soul.
39. And that the human being attains only what he strives for.
40. And that his efforts will be witnessed.
41. Then he will be rewarded for it the fullest reward.
42. And that to your Lord is the finality.
43. And that it is He who causes laughter and weeping.
44. And that it is He who gives death and life.
45. And that it is He who created the two kinds—the male and the female.
46. From a sperm drop, when emitted.
47. And that upon Him is the next existence.
48. And that it is He who enriches and impoverishes.
49. And that it is He who is the Lord of Sirius.
50. And that it is He who destroyed the first Aad.
51. And Thamood, sparing no one.
52. And the people of Noah before that; for they were most unjust and most oppressive.
53. And He toppled the ruined cities.
54. And covered them with whatever covered them.
55. So which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
56. This is a warning, just like the first warnings.
57. The inevitable is imminent.
58. None besides God can unveil it.
59. Do you marvel at this discourse?
60. And laugh, and do not weep?
61. Lost in your frivolity?
62. So bow down to God, and worship!
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
3,751
644
113
#29
The God of the Bible is the real God. And, he has a Son. If Allah does not have a Son then he is not the real God. Just one of the pagan gods in that area of the world.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
374
158
43
PDX
#30
Why are they in the Koran?

QURAN
53
The Star
an-Najm

1 The Opening ........ al-Fatihah 2 The Heifer ......... al-Baqarah 3 Family of Imran .... Ali 'Imran 4 Women .............. an-Nisa' 5 The Table .......... al-Ma'idah 6 Livestock .......... al-An'am 7 The Elevations ..... al-A'raf 8 The Spoils ......... al-Anfal 9 Repentance ......... at-Tawbah 10 Jonah .............. Yunus 11 Hud ................ Hud 12 Joseph ............. Yusuf 13 Thunder ............ ar-Ra'd 14 Abraham ............ Ibrahim 15 The Rock ........... al-Hijr 16 The Bee ............ an-Nahl 17 The Night Journey .. al-Isra' 18 The Cave ........... al-Kahf 19 Mary ............... Maryam 20 Ta-Ha .............. Ta-Ha 21 The Prophets ....... al-Anbiya 22 The Pilgrimage ..... al-Hajj 23 The Believers ...... al-Mu'minun 24 The Light .......... an-Nur 25 The Criterion ...... al-Furqan 26 The Poets .......... ash-Shu'ara' 27 The Ant ............ an-Naml 28 History ............ al-Qasas 29 The Spider ......... al-'Ankabut 30 The Romans ......... ar-Rum 31 Luqman ............. Luqman 32 Prostration ........ as-Sajdah 33 The Confederates ... al-Ahzab 34 Sheba .............. Saba' 35 Originator ......... Fatir 36 Ya-Seen ............ Ya-Seen 37 The Aligners ....... as-Saffat 38 Saad ............... Saad 39 Throngs ............ az-Zumar 40 Forgiver ........... Ghafir 41 Detailed ........... Fussilat 42 Consultation ....... ash-Shura 43 Decorations ........ az-Zukhruf 44 Smoke .............. ad-Dukhan 45 Kneeling ........... al-Jathiyah 46 The Dunes .......... al-Ahqaf 47 Muhammad ........... Muhammad 48 Victory ............ al-Fath 49 The Chambers ....... al-Hujurat 50 Qaf ................ Qaf 51 The Spreaders ...... adh-Dhariyat 52 The Mount .......... at-Tur 53 The Star ........... an-Najm 54 The Moon ........... al-Qamar 55 The Compassionate .. ar-Rahman 56 The Inevitable ..... al-Waqi'ah 57 Iron ............... al-Hadid` 58 The Argument ....... al-Mujadilah 59 The Mobilization ... al-Hashr 60 The Woman Tested ... al-Mumtahina 61 Column ............. as-Saff 62 Friday ............. al-Jumu'ah 63 The Hypocrites ..... al-Munafiqun 64 Gathering .......... at-Taghabun 65 Divorce ............ at-Talaq 66 Prohibition ........ at-Tahrim 67 Sovereignty ........ al-Mulk 68 The Pen ............ al-Qalam 69 The Reality ........ al-Haqqah 70 Ways of Ascent ..... al-Ma'arij 71 Noah ............... Nuh 72 The Jinn ........... al-Jinn 73 The Enwrapped ...... al-Muzzammil 74 The Enrobed ........ al-Muddathir 75 Resurrection ....... al-Qiyamah 76 Man ................ al-Insan 77 The Unleashed ...... al-Mursalat 78 The Event .......... an-Naba' 79 The Snatchers ...... an-Nazi'at 80 He Frowned ......... 'Abasa 81 The Rolling ........ at-Takwir 82 The Shattering ..... al-Infitar 83 The Defrauders ..... al-Mutaffifin 84 The Rupture ........ al-Inshiqaq 85 The Constellations . al-Buruj 86 The Nightly Visitor at-Tariq 87 The Most High ...... al-A'la 88 The Overwhelming ... al-Ghashiyah 89 The Dawn ........... al-Fajr 90 The Land ........... al-Balad 91 The Sun ............ ash-Shams 92 The Night .......... al-Layl 93 Morning Light ...... adh-Duha 94 The Soothing ....... ash-Sharh 95 The Fig ............ at-Tin 96 Clot ............... al-'Alaq 97 Decree ............. al-Qadr 98 Clear Evidence ..... al-Bayyinah 99 The Quake .......... az-Zalzalah 100 The Racers ......... al-'Adiyat 101 The Shocker ........ al-Qari'ah 102 Abundance .......... at-Takathur 103 Time ............... al-'Asr 104 The Backbiter ...... al-Humazah 105 The Elephant ....... al-Fil 106 Quraish ............ Quraysh 107 Assistance ......... al-Ma'un 108 Plenty ............. al-Kawthar 109 The Disbelievers ... al-Kafirun 110 Victory ............ an-Nasr 111 Thorns ............. al-Masad 112 Monotheism ......... al-Ikhlas 113 Daybreak ........... al-Falaq 114 Mankind ............ an-Nas




Edition God

Edition God Edition Allah Videos Scenic Videos

In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. By the star as it goes down.
2. Your friend has not gone astray, nor has he erred.
3. Nor does he speak out of desire.
4. It is but a revelation revealed.
5. Taught to him by the Extremely Powerful.
6. The one of vigor. He settled.
7. While he was at the highest horizon.
8. Then he came near, and hovered around.
9. He was within two bows’ length, or closer.
10. Then He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
11. The heart did not lie about what it saw.
12. Will you dispute with him concerning what he saw?
13. He saw him on another descent.
14. At the Lotus Tree of the Extremity.
15. Near which is the Garden of Repose.
16. As there covered the Lotus Tree what covered it.
17. The sight did not waver, nor did it exceed.
18. He saw some of the Great Signs of his Lord.
19. Have you considered al-Lat and al-Uzza?
20. And Manat, the third one, the other?

21. Are you to have the males, and He the females?
22. What a bizarre distribution.
23. These are nothing but names, which you have devised, you and your ancestors, for which God sent down no authority. They follow nothing but assumptions, and what the ego desires, even though guidance has come to them from their Lord.
24. Or is the human being to have whatever he desires?
25. To God belong the Last and the First.
26. How many an angel is there in the heavens whose intercession avails nothing, except after God gives permission to whomever He wills, and approves?
27. Those who do not believe in the Hereafter give the angels the names of females.
28. They have no knowledge of that. They only follow assumptions, and assumptions are no substitute for the truth.
29. So avoid him who has turned away from Our remembrance, and desires nothing but the present life.
30. That is the extent of their knowledge. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who has accepted guidance.
31. To God belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. He will repay those who do evil according to their deeds, and recompense those who do good with the best.
32. Those who avoid gross sins and indecencies—except for minor lapses—your Lord is of Vast Forgiveness. He knows you well, ever since He created you from the earth, and ever since you were embryos in your mothers’ wombs. So do not acclaim your own virtue; He is fully aware of the righteous.
33. Have you considered him who turned away?
34. And gave a little, and held back?
35. Does he possess knowledge of the unseen, and can therefore foresee?
36. Or was he not informed of what is in the Scrolls of Moses?
37. And of Abraham, who fulfilled?
38. That no soul bears the burdens of another soul.
39. And that the human being attains only what he strives for.
40. And that his efforts will be witnessed.
41. Then he will be rewarded for it the fullest reward.
42. And that to your Lord is the finality.
43. And that it is He who causes laughter and weeping.
44. And that it is He who gives death and life.
45. And that it is He who created the two kinds—the male and the female.
46. From a sperm drop, when emitted.
47. And that upon Him is the next existence.
48. And that it is He who enriches and impoverishes.
49. And that it is He who is the Lord of Sirius.
50. And that it is He who destroyed the first Aad.
51. And Thamood, sparing no one.
52. And the people of Noah before that; for they were most unjust and most oppressive.
53. And He toppled the ruined cities.
54. And covered them with whatever covered them.
55. So which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
56. This is a warning, just like the first warnings.
57. The inevitable is imminent.
58. None besides God can unveil it.
59. Do you marvel at this discourse?
60. And laugh, and do not weep?
61. Lost in your frivolity?
62. So bow down to God, and worship!
Is it the Yusuf Ali Interpretation? The original Qur'an is in classical Arabic and everything else is an interpretation. I am not sure that they are. If Allah SWT could not have Isa PBUH as a son, how could he have daughters?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
3,751
644
113
#31

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
3,751
644
113
#32
The sole issue I have with Muslims is how they view Isa (PBUH), yet it is marginally understandable. Muhammad PBUH knew Christians and Jews, yet decided to go his own way. I do not see a lot of difference between Muslims, Christians and Jews otherwise. Their thinking is that Allah SWT is the highest and most Devine and has no body, so can not procreate, so can not have a Son. I don't get too excited about the issue.
Mohammad did not encounter orthodox Christians, they were Nestorian.
https://www.theopedia.com/nestorianism
https://fountainmagazine.com/2005/i...tions-between-prophet-muhammad-and-christians
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,728
15,478
113
#33
Is it the Yusuf Ali Interpretation? The original Qur'an is in classical Arabic and everything else is an interpretation. I am not sure that they are. If Allah SWT could not have Isa PBUH as a son, how could he have daughters?
All originals of the Quran were burned due to discrepancies within various versions written by different people.

Gotquestions.org has his to say on the "Satanic verses":

The satanic verses are two lines in the Quran that, according to some versions of Muslim history, Muhammad spoke under the direction of Satan rather than Allah. Some early Muslim sources record that Muhammad admitted that Surah 53, verses 21–22 of the Quran, as they originally read, were the result of a satanic trick that he thought was a genuine revelation from Allah. If this tradition is true, Muhammad’s position as a true prophet would be in dispute because he had been deceived by Satan.

Al-Lat, al-'Uzza, and Manat were three pagan Arab deities.

Following Surah 53:20, the devil interjected his own words onto Muhammad’s tongue, and the result was Surah 53:21–22 (the “satanic” version):

“These are the exalted cranes [intermediaries]
Whose intercession is to be hoped for!”


According to these verses, the three pagan deities are recognized to be legitimate, and Muhammad can seek their intercession on his behalf. By Muhammad recognizing these Arab deities, he was able to ease tensions with the Arabs. Later, he explained what looked like a lapse into polytheism by saying that Satan had tricked him. He also said that the angel Gabriel came to him and told him that occasionally Satan fools even true prophets. At the time, this explained how an error was introduced into the Quran. Later, this admission was seen to be damaging to Muhammad’s character, so the verses were changed altogether, and the story of his confession was squelched. This is documented in early Muslim sources still available today, although Muslim apologists also point out that there are earlier biographies of Muhammad that do not record this story.

“When [the pagan] Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from God, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
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#34
All originals of the Quran were burned due to discrepancies within various versions written by different people.

Gotquestions.org has his to say on the "Satanic verses":

The satanic verses are two lines in the Quran that, according to some versions of Muslim history, Muhammad spoke under the direction of Satan rather than Allah. Some early Muslim sources record that Muhammad admitted that Surah 53, verses 21–22 of the Quran, as they originally read, were the result of a satanic trick that he thought was a genuine revelation from Allah. If this tradition is true, Muhammad’s position as a true prophet would be in dispute because he had been deceived by Satan.

Al-Lat, al-'Uzza, and Manat were three pagan Arab deities.

Following Surah 53:20, the devil interjected his own words onto Muhammad’s tongue, and the result was Surah 53:21–22 (the “satanic” version):

“These are the exalted cranes [intermediaries]
Whose intercession is to be hoped for!”


According to these verses, the three pagan deities are recognized to be legitimate, and Muhammad can seek their intercession on his behalf. By Muhammad recognizing these Arab deities, he was able to ease tensions with the Arabs. Later, he explained what looked like a lapse into polytheism by saying that Satan had tricked him. He also said that the angel Gabriel came to him and told him that occasionally Satan fools even true prophets. At the time, this explained how an error was introduced into the Quran. Later, this admission was seen to be damaging to Muhammad’s character, so the verses were changed altogether, and the story of his confession was squelched. This is documented in early Muslim sources still available today, although Muslim apologists also point out that there are earlier biographies of Muhammad that do not record this story.

“When [the pagan] Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from God, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake.
You are entitled to write the Qur'an off if you wish. I see it as part of history from an academic point of view. I have experienced Pastors attack the Qur'an and Islam out of complete ignorance and it is saddening. If they can't get that right, then how can I trust their council on other matters?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#35
You are entitled to write the Qur'an off if you wish. I see it as part of history from an academic point of view. I have experienced Pastors attack the Qur'an and Islam out of complete ignorance and it is saddening. If they can't get that right, then how can I trust their council on other matters?
You did not address anything I said...

So it is you writing things off
:rolleyes:
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
374
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#36
You did not address anything I said...

So it is you writing things off :rolleyes:
Not playing games with you. I only know of the Yusuf Ali Interpretation of the Classical Arabic, which is not spoken or understood today. As to satanic parts of Islam, that is of questionable value. I was a practicing Muslim from 2005 until at least 2012. Do you have any idea why I would not disavow Islam or Muhammad? These days I don't see value in organized Churches. For me, the Church is in my heart. and it is expected of me to study and pray on my own. I'll not likely please anyone. I'm a Christian but value what I learned in Islam.

In my opinion, the most valued prayer is being properly covered, and prostrate on the floor seeking God alone. That which we do in front of others is of questionable value to me.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,728
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#37
Not playing games with you. I only know of the Yusuf Ali Interpretation of the Classical Arabic, which is not spoken or understood today. As to satanic parts of Islam, that is of questionable value. I was a practicing Muslim from 2005 until at least 2012. Do you have any idea why I would not disavow Islam or Muhammad? These days I don't see value in organized Churches. For me, the Church is in my heart. and it is expected of me to study and pray on my own. I'll not likely please anyone. I'm a Christian but value what I learned in Islam.

In my opinion, the most valued prayer is being properly covered, and prostrate on the floor seeking God alone. That which we do in front of others is of questionable value to me.
What is the point of a book nobody can understand? Your silly insinuations aside, the original Quran is not in existence, and Satanic verses were removed, remaining only in early biographies of Muhammad by al-Wāqidī, Ibn Sa'd and Ibn Ishaq, and the tafsir of al-Tabarī.

If you wish to revere an adulterous, war mongering pedophile, that is your business.

I choose not to :)
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
374
158
43
PDX
#38
What is the point of a book nobody can understand? Your silly insinuations aside, the original Quran is not in existence, and Satanic verses were removed, remaining only in early biographies of Muhammad by al-Wāqidī, Ibn Sa'd and Ibn Ishaq, and the tafsir of al-Tabarī.

If you wish to revere an adulterous, war mongering pedophile, that is your business.

I choose not to :)
You seem to crave conflict.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
1,670
1,148
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#39
The Truth about Muhammad
1) The messsage of Islam is intertwined with its messanger. Allegiance to one implies allegiance to the other.
2) Muslims who question Allah are usually tolerated by other Muslims, but questioning Muhammad is grounds for excommunication or worse.
3) Islamic theology has accorded him the title "al-Insan al-Kamil", which translates to "the man who has attained perfection".
4) Because of hadith and tradition, Muslim religion, culture, heritage, and identity all find their core in the person of Muhammad.
5) Muslims see an attack on Muhammad's character as equivalent to a personal attack on them and everything they stand for.
6) Islam comes from the same Arabic root word that means "peace". According to Muslims, the life of Muhammad rreflects this.
7) According to Muslims, on the day that Muhammad conquered Mecca, Muhammad forgave meccans despite their horrific treatment of Muslims.
8) According to Muslims, the other battles Muhammad fought were all defensive.
9) According to Muslims, Muhammad knew about subjects like embryology, astronomy, and geology, knowledge he could have attained only if Allah had revealed it to him. However, there are problems with many of the Quranic verses that are obvious to physicians and other scientists. For example, The Quran 23: 13-14 reads, "Then we made him a sperm in a fixed lodging. Then we made the sperm a hanging (thing), then we made the hanging into a chewed (thing), then we made the chewed into bones, then we clothed the bones with flesh, then we developed it into another crreation, so blessed be Allah, the best of creators." The verse explains the sequential development of an embryo, but the sequence is incorrect. An embryo does not first become bones to be later clothed with flesh. One layer of an embryo, the mesoderm, differentiates into bone and flesh at the same time.
10) The Quran: 9.5 But when the forbidden (four) months are over, then fight and kill the (distrusted) pagans wherever you find them, and catch them, attack them, and stay waiting for them in every stage (of war); But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then make it easy for them: Verily, Allah is Often Forgiving , Most Merciful.
11) The hadiths ( stories, sayings, rituals and traditions attributed to Mohammad) were written 200 to 250 years after Muhammad. From Muhammad to that time the stories were passed down orally.
12) Almost everything Muslims know about Muhammad comes to them orally, rarely from primary sources.
13) Unlike Christians learning about Jesus from the Bible, the Quran has very little to say about Muhammad.
14) The earliest records of Muhammad's life expressly admit that they have intentional alterations.
15) Muhammad's first biography, "Sirat Rasul Allah" by Ibn Ishaq comes down to our day only through the transmission of a later biographer, Ibn Hisham.
16) In his introduction, Ibn Hisham explains that he altered the story of Muhammad's life. "Things which it is disgraceful to discuss, matters which would distress certain people, and such reports as [my teacher] told me he could not accept as trustworthy--all these things I have omitted." Found in Ibn Hisham's notes; Guillaume, Life of Muhammad, page 691.
17) The hadith Sahih Bukhari consists of 9 volumes that almost all Muslims consider the most historically authentic.
18) In the first volume, the third hadith, Muhammad's first revelation in the Cave of Hira, instead of recounting that the angel simply asked Muhammad to recite, Muhammad reports that " the angel caught me forcefully and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore." Each time the angel asked Muhammad to recite, the angel applied unbearable pressure. After his encounter with the angel, Muhammad returned to his wife terrified, his "heart beating severely."
19) Volume 9 hadith 111 (9.1110 describes the same event. It said that when Muhammad saw Gabriel, his "neck muscles twitched in terror," and when Gabriel had gone for a while, the Prophet became so depressed "that he intended several times to throw himself from the top of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would apppear before him and say, ' O Muhammad. You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth, whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down."
20) In Volume 1 hadith 24, Muhammad says , " I have been ordered by Allah to fight against people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity...then they will save their lives and property from me."
21) The previous statement (#20) contradicts the Quran's clear statement that "there is no compulsion in religion."
22) Volume 1 hadith 25 says that the greatest thing a Muslim can do after having faith is to engage in jihad. As if to clarify what kind of jihad, Sahih Bukhari clarifies, "religious fighting."
23) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, the translator used Ibn Hisham's abridgement of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah. On page 676 Muhammad ordered a warrior to assassinate a mother of five, Asma bint Marwan. She was breastfeeding a child when she was murdered, her blood splattering on her children. When the assassin told Muhammad he had difficulty with what he had done, Muhammad showed no remorse.
24) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, page 464: in the aftermath of the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad captured and beheaded over 500 men and teenage boys from the Jewish tribe of Quraya. After the Muslims killed the men, they sold the women and children into slavery and distributed their goods among themselves.
25) This account is also found in both hadith and sirah (biographies).
26) Islam commands Muslims to have no more than 4 wives at a time, Yet Mahammad had at least 7 at one point. The Quran 33;50 says Muhammad had special privilege.
27) According to Sahih Bukhari, volume 7, hadith 62.64, 62.65, and 62.88 and Sahih Muslim 8.3310 and8.3311 Aisha was 6 when Muhammad married her, and he consummated the marriage with her 3 years later, when he was 52.
28) Muhammad had been poisoned; on his deathbed, he felt as if the poison was killing him; he had black magic cast on him. Sahih Bukhari volume 3 hadith 47 verse 786 (3.47.786). Also 5.59.713 and 4.54.490.
29) He revealed versus he later admitted had been from Satan. Guillaume's Life of Muhammad pages 165-166.
30) He tortured people for money. Ibid.,515
31) He led an attack on unarmed Jews. Sahih Bukhari 1.11.584
32) He caused his adopted son to divorce so he could marry his daughter-in-law, Zaiab. Quran 33.37; Sahih Muslim 8.3330; Tabari volume 8, pages 2-3
33) He told people to drink camel's urine. Sahih Bukhari 8.82.794; Sahih Muslim 16.4130
34) In the 1940s Martin Lings, an English scholar who converted to Sufi Islam, wrote an internationally acclaimed, comprehensive, and authoritative account of the life of Muhammad the prophet. The title of the book is "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources" It has been published in12 languages, and has received numerous awards, including acknowledgement as best biography of the prophet in English at the National Seerate Conference in Islamabad. The conference was attended by Muslim clerics from around the world. The chapter titled "The Threshold of War" seems to say that it was the Muslims who were the first aggressors against Mecca after Muhammad had migrated to Medina. Muhammad sent 8 Muslims to lie in wait for a Meccan trade caravan during the holy month. Even though this was a time of sacred truce for Arabs, the Muslims killed one man, captured2 others, and plundered their goods.
31) Most Muslims have a copy of the Quran but have never read any of the hadiths themselves. What they know about Muhammad is what they hear orally from a person called an Imam who leads them in prayer to Allah and tells them sugarcoated stories about Muhammad.
32) How can a man like Muhammad be a prophet of God? He certainly wasn't a man who had attained perfection. I hope this helps you understand what kind of man Muslims ignorantly glorify.
33) All of this information comes from a book written by a devout Muslim who converted to Christianity, Nabeel Qureshi. The title of the book is " Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus.
Muhammed was a mass murdering pedophile. ALL Muslims say that he is the ideal man. I don't care how peaceful they say they are. Their role model says otherwise.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,728
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#40
You seem to crave conflict.
You refuse to deal with facts. If you are conflicted about that, you can do something about it :)

*********************************

Islam denies that Jesus is God, and denies that Jesus was crucified and rose again (Quran 4:157; Surah 4:157)? The Koran is the work of one man (at least originally), Mohammed, who confessed to being a false prophet: "I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to him words which he has not spoken." (Al Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. 6, p.111). He also admitted to having mistaken the words of "Satan" (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp.165-166) as Allah's. The Bible, on the other hand, is acknowledged to be a cohesive work of the Holy Spirit of God through forty different people over a span of centuries.

Jesus
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." (John 8:7)


Muhammad
Stoned women for adultery. (Muslim 4206)


Jesus
"He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." (Matthew 26:52)


Muhammad
"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no
god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" (Muslim 1:33)


Jesus
"Thou shalt not steal." (Matthew 19:18)


Muhammad
Permitted stealing from unbelievers. (Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)


Jesus
"Thou shalt not bear false witness." (Matthew 19:18)


Muhammad
Takyya = Permitted lying, especially for the sake of the spread of Islam.
(Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)


Jesus
Neither owned nor traded slaves.


Muhammad
Owned and traded slaves. (Sahih Muslim 3901)


Jesus
Beheaded no one. Even healed the Roman centurion whose ear
Peter cut off when they arrested Jesus prior to His crucifixion.


Muhammad
Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys. (Abu Dawud 4390)


Jesus
Preached forgiveness. (Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38)


Muhammad
Murdered those who insulted him. (Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)


Jesus
"If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39)


Muhammad
"If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him" (Quran 2:194)


Jesus
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)


Muhammad
Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold. (Muslim 4645)
In fact, murdering others while self immolating is their only assurance of salvation


Jesus
Was celibate.


Muhammad
Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves. (Bukhari 5:268, Quran 33:50) Plus, Mohammed was a serial rapist.


Jesus
Did not have sex with children.


Muhammad
Had sexual intercourse with a 9-year-old child. (Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)


Jesus
Never harmed a woman.


Muhammad
Ordered the murder of women. (Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)


Jesus
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)


Muhammad
"O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
(Quran 9:123)


Jesus
Ordered no military campaigns, nor offered any approval of war or violence.


Muhammad
Ordered 65 military campaigns and raids in his last 10 years. (Ibn Ishaq )


Jesus
Never took captives. Never killed anyone.


Muhammad
Killed captives taken in battle. (Ibn Ishaq 451)


Jesus
"The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve." (Matthew 20:28)


Muhammad
Demanded captured slaves and a fifth of all other loot taken in war. (Quran 8:41)


Jesus
Suffered torture, but never tortured anyone.


Muhammad
Was never tortured, but tortured others.


Jesus
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44)


Muhammad
"And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah" (Quran 8:39)


Jesus
Healed a blind man (Mark 8:28)


Muhammad
Blessed the brutal murder of a half-blind man (al-Tabari 1440)


Jesus
Washed his disciples feet. (John 13:5)


Muhammad
Ordered a slave to build the very pulpit from which he preached Islam. (Bukhari 47:743)


Jesus
What are the Greatest Commandments? "Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself." (Matthew 22:34-40)


Muhammad
What are the Greatest Commandments? "Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause" (Muslim 1:149)


Jesus
Chastised anyone attempting to defend him with force. (John 18:10-12)


Muhammad
Demanded the protection of armed bodyguards, even in a house of worship (Quran 4:102)


Jesus
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matthew 5:44)


Muhammad
"And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah" (Quran 8:39)


Jesus
Demanded nothing for himself. Lived and died without possessions.


Muhammad
Died fat and wealthy from what was taken from others in war or demanded from others in tribute.


Jesus
Was crucified himself.


Muhammad
Advocated crucifying others. (Quran 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)


Jesus
Gave his life for others. (John 18:11 and elsewhere)


Mahammed had others give their lives for him. (Sahih Muslim 4413)