The truth about Muhammad "Feedback appreciated"

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Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
1,273
857
113
#41
I know a few moslems. From what I can see, they are peaceful, loving, and family oriented. I love them dearly. Only one feedback ( a thumbs up). Please give me some feedback. Is my post in the correct Christian forum?
Peaceful, loving and family oriented? Sure. Just say one bad word about the murderer Mohammed or one negative word about the Koran. You'll see the real Islam. If you live, that is. Ask the people of Afghanistan how peaceful Islam is. Ask the people of Iran and Iraq or Pakistan, any other "stan" for that matter. With few exceptions, the Ahmadi being one, shedding blood is perfectly acceptable to Muslims.

Don't be fooled. People worry about COVID. Islam is a far more dangerous disease that infects 1.7 billion people. ISIL, the Taliban and Al Queda are all simply being true Muslims.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
334
142
43
PDX
#42
Muhammed was a mass murdering pedophile. ALL Muslims say that he is the ideal man. I don't care how peaceful they say they are. Their role model says otherwise.
No one living today can speak with authority about anything that happened in the 7th Century AD.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
334
142
43
PDX
#43
The Truth about Muhammad
1) The messsage of Islam is intertwined with its messanger. Allegiance to one implies allegiance to the other.
2) Muslims who question Allah are usually tolerated by other Muslims, but questioning Muhammad is grounds for excommunication or worse.
3) Islamic theology has accorded him the title "al-Insan al-Kamil", which translates to "the man who has attained perfection".
4) Because of hadith and tradition, Muslim religion, culture, heritage, and identity all find their core in the person of Muhammad.
5) Muslims see an attack on Muhammad's character as equivalent to a personal attack on them and everything they stand for.
6) Islam comes from the same Arabic root word that means "peace". According to Muslims, the life of Muhammad rreflects this.
7) According to Muslims, on the day that Muhammad conquered Mecca, Muhammad forgave meccans despite their horrific treatment of Muslims.
8) According to Muslims, the other battles Muhammad fought were all defensive.
9) According to Muslims, Muhammad knew about subjects like embryology, astronomy, and geology, knowledge he could have attained only if Allah had revealed it to him. However, there are problems with many of the Quranic verses that are obvious to physicians and other scientists. For example, The Quran 23: 13-14 reads, "Then we made him a sperm in a fixed lodging. Then we made the sperm a hanging (thing), then we made the hanging into a chewed (thing), then we made the chewed into bones, then we clothed the bones with flesh, then we developed it into another crreation, so blessed be Allah, the best of creators." The verse explains the sequential development of an embryo, but the sequence is incorrect. An embryo does not first become bones to be later clothed with flesh. One layer of an embryo, the mesoderm, differentiates into bone and flesh at the same time.
10) The Quran: 9.5 But when the forbidden (four) months are over, then fight and kill the (distrusted) pagans wherever you find them, and catch them, attack them, and stay waiting for them in every stage (of war); But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then make it easy for them: Verily, Allah is Often Forgiving , Most Merciful.
11) The hadiths ( stories, sayings, rituals and traditions attributed to Mohammad) were written 200 to 250 years after Muhammad. From Muhammad to that time the stories were passed down orally.
12) Almost everything Muslims know about Muhammad comes to them orally, rarely from primary sources.
13) Unlike Christians learning about Jesus from the Bible, the Quran has very little to say about Muhammad.
14) The earliest records of Muhammad's life expressly admit that they have intentional alterations.
15) Muhammad's first biography, "Sirat Rasul Allah" by Ibn Ishaq comes down to our day only through the transmission of a later biographer, Ibn Hisham.
16) In his introduction, Ibn Hisham explains that he altered the story of Muhammad's life. "Things which it is disgraceful to discuss, matters which would distress certain people, and such reports as [my teacher] told me he could not accept as trustworthy--all these things I have omitted." Found in Ibn Hisham's notes; Guillaume, Life of Muhammad, page 691.
17) The hadith Sahih Bukhari consists of 9 volumes that almost all Muslims consider the most historically authentic.
18) In the first volume, the third hadith, Muhammad's first revelation in the Cave of Hira, instead of recounting that the angel simply asked Muhammad to recite, Muhammad reports that " the angel caught me forcefully and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore." Each time the angel asked Muhammad to recite, the angel applied unbearable pressure. After his encounter with the angel, Muhammad returned to his wife terrified, his "heart beating severely."
19) Volume 9 hadith 111 (9.1110 describes the same event. It said that when Muhammad saw Gabriel, his "neck muscles twitched in terror," and when Gabriel had gone for a while, the Prophet became so depressed "that he intended several times to throw himself from the top of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would apppear before him and say, ' O Muhammad. You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth, whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down."
20) In Volume 1 hadith 24, Muhammad says , " I have been ordered by Allah to fight against people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity...then they will save their lives and property from me."
21) The previous statement (#20) contradicts the Quran's clear statement that "there is no compulsion in religion."
22) Volume 1 hadith 25 says that the greatest thing a Muslim can do after having faith is to engage in jihad. As if to clarify what kind of jihad, Sahih Bukhari clarifies, "religious fighting."
23) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, the translator used Ibn Hisham's abridgement of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah. On page 676 Muhammad ordered a warrior to assassinate a mother of five, Asma bint Marwan. She was breastfeeding a child when she was murdered, her blood splattering on her children. When the assassin told Muhammad he had difficulty with what he had done, Muhammad showed no remorse.
24) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, page 464: in the aftermath of the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad captured and beheaded over 500 men and teenage boys from the Jewish tribe of Quraya. After the Muslims killed the men, they sold the women and children into slavery and distributed their goods among themselves.
25) This account is also found in both hadith and sirah (biographies).
26) Islam commands Muslims to have no more than 4 wives at a time, Yet Mahammad had at least 7 at one point. The Quran 33;50 says Muhammad had special privilege.
27) According to Sahih Bukhari, volume 7, hadith 62.64, 62.65, and 62.88 and Sahih Muslim 8.3310 and8.3311 Aisha was 6 when Muhammad married her, and he consummated the marriage with her 3 years later, when he was 52.
28) Muhammad had been poisoned; on his deathbed, he felt as if the poison was killing him; he had black magic cast on him. Sahih Bukhari volume 3 hadith 47 verse 786 (3.47.786). Also 5.59.713 and 4.54.490.
29) He revealed versus he later admitted had been from Satan. Guillaume's Life of Muhammad pages 165-166.
30) He tortured people for money. Ibid.,515
31) He led an attack on unarmed Jews. Sahih Bukhari 1.11.584
32) He caused his adopted son to divorce so he could marry his daughter-in-law, Zaiab. Quran 33.37; Sahih Muslim 8.3330; Tabari volume 8, pages 2-3
33) He told people to drink camel's urine. Sahih Bukhari 8.82.794; Sahih Muslim 16.4130
34) In the 1940s Martin Lings, an English scholar who converted to Sufi Islam, wrote an internationally acclaimed, comprehensive, and authoritative account of the life of Muhammad the prophet. The title of the book is "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources" It has been published in12 languages, and has received numerous awards, including acknowledgement as best biography of the prophet in English at the National Seerate Conference in Islamabad. The conference was attended by Muslim clerics from around the world. The chapter titled "The Threshold of War" seems to say that it was the Muslims who were the first aggressors against Mecca after Muhammad had migrated to Medina. Muhammad sent 8 Muslims to lie in wait for a Meccan trade caravan during the holy month. Even though this was a time of sacred truce for Arabs, the Muslims killed one man, captured2 others, and plundered their goods.
31) Most Muslims have a copy of the Quran but have never read any of the hadiths themselves. What they know about Muhammad is what they hear orally from a person called an Imam who leads them in prayer to Allah and tells them sugarcoated stories about Muhammad.
32) How can a man like Muhammad be a prophet of God? He certainly wasn't a man who had attained perfection. I hope this helps you understand what kind of man Muslims ignorantly glorify.
33) All of this information comes from a book written by a devout Muslim who converted to Christianity, Nabeel Qureshi. The title of the book is " Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus.
I practiced Sunni Islam from 2005 to 2012 and still carry much of what I learned with me. My sole reservation about Islam is what I see as their questionable interpretation of who Jesus the Christ (ISA PBUH) is. He is seen as the best prophet. Somehow many Muslims see Muhammad as the best prophet. I will not disavow Allah SWT or Muhammad PBUH.

Today I loosely practice Christianity, but not any Denomination. I'm mainly an academic on matters of belief.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,009
14,943
113
#44
No one living today can speak with authority about anything that happened in the 7th Century AD.
Since that would necessarily include you, why then follow Islam at all?

It is untrustworthy according to your very own words.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,009
14,943
113
#45


Jesus, the Name above every other name
Jesus, the only One who could ever save

Holy, there is no one like You
There is none beside You
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,239
4,725
113
#46
No one living today can speak with authority about anything that happened in the 7th Century AD.

So everything in history is false? Or just things you don't want to hear?
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,239
4,725
113
#47
I practiced Sunni Islam from 2005 to 2012 and still carry much of what I learned with me. My sole reservation about Islam is what I see as their questionable interpretation of who Jesus the Christ (ISA PBUH) is. He is seen as the best prophet. Somehow many Muslims see Muhammad as the best prophet. I will not disavow Allah SWT or Muhammad PBUH.

Today I loosely practice Christianity, but not any Denomination. I'm mainly an academic on matters of belief.

That's you sole reservation?! That's all that bothers you about Islam? Listen, you can't loosely practice Christianity. You either believe Jesus was the Son of God, the only Son and He died to save you from sin, or you are still lost.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,009
14,943
113
#48
So everything in history is false? Or just things you don't want to hear?
On the one hand, she believes historical accounts "academically", or so she says, but then turns around and says there is nothing anyone can say authoritatively on what happened in the 7th century, which very much casts doubt on all of history as you have indicated. Katia is being very double minded and contradictory, while refusing go deal with facts when presented, resorting to innuendo and accusations instead. Thank God we have knowledge and assurance in our firm foundation!

I see it as part of history from an academic point of view.
No one living today can speak with authority about anything that happened in the 7th Century AD.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,009
14,943
113
#50
Are you University educated in the field of History?
What good is a university education in the field of history when, according to you, there are no current authoritative sources?
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,239
4,725
113
#51
Are you University educated in the field of History?
I asked you a question, it's rude to respond with a question. Please answer what was asked of you first.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,239
4,725
113
#52
What good is a university education in the field of history when, according to you, there are no current authoritative sources?
Seems she painted herself into a corner...
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,811
2,301
113
#53
You seem to crave conflict.
Did you not come to a site and openly state that you support a belief system that you know is in direct contradiction to the beliefs of the site? Then you want to accuse Others of craving conflict? Wow.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
2,244
1,414
113
#55
I practiced Sunni Islam from 2005 to 2012 and still carry much of what I learned with me. My sole reservation about Islam is what I see as their questionable interpretation of who Jesus the Christ (ISA PBUH) is. He is seen as the best prophet. Somehow many Muslims see Muhammad as the best prophet. I will not disavow Allah SWT or Muhammad PBUH.

Today I loosely practice Christianity, but not any Denomination. I'm mainly an academic on matters of belief.
Can I ask how you loosely practice Christianity? Do you believe Jesus is The perfect Messiah who lived and died in our place for our sins on the cross, was buried, and then resurrected on the third day, or not?
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
334
142
43
PDX
#56
Can I ask how you loosely practice Christianity? Do you believe Jesus is The perfect Messiah who lived and died in our place for our sins on the cross, was buried, and then resurrected on the third day, or not?
Jesus is the Son of God. I question that he died for our sins. He was resurrected on the third day. The Bible says that forgiveness follows repentance. If you are a drunken wife abuser, no amount of crying out to Jesus will save you unless you repent.

I study the Bible exhaustively and not forgetting what I learned elsewhere.
 

true_believer

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2020
453
255
63
#57
Islam denies the crucifixion.
That is like a history revisionist denying the World Wars, moon landing or the sinking of the Titanic.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
2,405
2,644
113
65
#58
Jesus is the Son of God. I question that he died for our sins. He was resurrected on the third day.
Hello Katia, question for you, if the Lord Jesus did not need to die on the Cross to 1. atone for our sins and 2. to satisfy His Father's wrath, so that we could be reconciled to Him, then what was the purpose of the Incarnation and the Cross :unsure:

Also, if that horrible death that He suffered on the Cross wasn't absolutely necessary for our salvation, wouldn't that make His Father a monster (instead His/our Abba/loving Father) :unsure:

I have a couple of other questions that I'd like to ask you (about a couple of other things that you mentioned in your last post), but this is enough for now :)

Thanks!

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - here is some Scripture for you to consider as well.


Romans 5
8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Hebrews 9
22 According to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
334
142
43
PDX
#59
The Truth about Muhammad
1) The messsage of Islam is intertwined with its messanger. Allegiance to one implies allegiance to the other.
2) Muslims who question Allah are usually tolerated by other Muslims, but questioning Muhammad is grounds for excommunication or worse.
3) Islamic theology has accorded him the title "al-Insan al-Kamil", which translates to "the man who has attained perfection".
4) Because of hadith and tradition, Muslim religion, culture, heritage, and identity all find their core in the person of Muhammad.
5) Muslims see an attack on Muhammad's character as equivalent to a personal attack on them and everything they stand for.
6) Islam comes from the same Arabic root word that means "peace". According to Muslims, the life of Muhammad rreflects this.
7) According to Muslims, on the day that Muhammad conquered Mecca, Muhammad forgave meccans despite their horrific treatment of Muslims.
8) According to Muslims, the other battles Muhammad fought were all defensive.
9) According to Muslims, Muhammad knew about subjects like embryology, astronomy, and geology, knowledge he could have attained only if Allah had revealed it to him. However, there are problems with many of the Quranic verses that are obvious to physicians and other scientists. For example, The Quran 23: 13-14 reads, "Then we made him a sperm in a fixed lodging. Then we made the sperm a hanging (thing), then we made the hanging into a chewed (thing), then we made the chewed into bones, then we clothed the bones with flesh, then we developed it into another crreation, so blessed be Allah, the best of creators." The verse explains the sequential development of an embryo, but the sequence is incorrect. An embryo does not first become bones to be later clothed with flesh. One layer of an embryo, the mesoderm, differentiates into bone and flesh at the same time.
10) The Quran: 9.5 But when the forbidden (four) months are over, then fight and kill the (distrusted) pagans wherever you find them, and catch them, attack them, and stay waiting for them in every stage (of war); But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then make it easy for them: Verily, Allah is Often Forgiving , Most Merciful.
11) The hadiths ( stories, sayings, rituals and traditions attributed to Mohammad) were written 200 to 250 years after Muhammad. From Muhammad to that time the stories were passed down orally.
12) Almost everything Muslims know about Muhammad comes to them orally, rarely from primary sources.
13) Unlike Christians learning about Jesus from the Bible, the Quran has very little to say about Muhammad.
14) The earliest records of Muhammad's life expressly admit that they have intentional alterations.
15) Muhammad's first biography, "Sirat Rasul Allah" by Ibn Ishaq comes down to our day only through the transmission of a later biographer, Ibn Hisham.
16) In his introduction, Ibn Hisham explains that he altered the story of Muhammad's life. "Things which it is disgraceful to discuss, matters which would distress certain people, and such reports as [my teacher] told me he could not accept as trustworthy--all these things I have omitted." Found in Ibn Hisham's notes; Guillaume, Life of Muhammad, page 691.
17) The hadith Sahih Bukhari consists of 9 volumes that almost all Muslims consider the most historically authentic.
18) In the first volume, the third hadith, Muhammad's first revelation in the Cave of Hira, instead of recounting that the angel simply asked Muhammad to recite, Muhammad reports that " the angel caught me forcefully and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore." Each time the angel asked Muhammad to recite, the angel applied unbearable pressure. After his encounter with the angel, Muhammad returned to his wife terrified, his "heart beating severely."
19) Volume 9 hadith 111 (9.1110 describes the same event. It said that when Muhammad saw Gabriel, his "neck muscles twitched in terror," and when Gabriel had gone for a while, the Prophet became so depressed "that he intended several times to throw himself from the top of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would apppear before him and say, ' O Muhammad. You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth, whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down."
20) In Volume 1 hadith 24, Muhammad says , " I have been ordered by Allah to fight against people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity...then they will save their lives and property from me."
21) The previous statement (#20) contradicts the Quran's clear statement that "there is no compulsion in religion."
22) Volume 1 hadith 25 says that the greatest thing a Muslim can do after having faith is to engage in jihad. As if to clarify what kind of jihad, Sahih Bukhari clarifies, "religious fighting."
23) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, the translator used Ibn Hisham's abridgement of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah. On page 676 Muhammad ordered a warrior to assassinate a mother of five, Asma bint Marwan. She was breastfeeding a child when she was murdered, her blood splattering on her children. When the assassin told Muhammad he had difficulty with what he had done, Muhammad showed no remorse.
24) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, page 464: in the aftermath of the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad captured and beheaded over 500 men and teenage boys from the Jewish tribe of Quraya. After the Muslims killed the men, they sold the women and children into slavery and distributed their goods among themselves.
25) This account is also found in both hadith and sirah (biographies).
26) Islam commands Muslims to have no more than 4 wives at a time, Yet Mahammad had at least 7 at one point. The Quran 33;50 says Muhammad had special privilege.
27) According to Sahih Bukhari, volume 7, hadith 62.64, 62.65, and 62.88 and Sahih Muslim 8.3310 and8.3311 Aisha was 6 when Muhammad married her, and he consummated the marriage with her 3 years later, when he was 52.
28) Muhammad had been poisoned; on his deathbed, he felt as if the poison was killing him; he had black magic cast on him. Sahih Bukhari volume 3 hadith 47 verse 786 (3.47.786). Also 5.59.713 and 4.54.490.
29) He revealed versus he later admitted had been from Satan. Guillaume's Life of Muhammad pages 165-166.
30) He tortured people for money. Ibid.,515
31) He led an attack on unarmed Jews. Sahih Bukhari 1.11.584
32) He caused his adopted son to divorce so he could marry his daughter-in-law, Zaiab. Quran 33.37; Sahih Muslim 8.3330; Tabari volume 8, pages 2-3
33) He told people to drink camel's urine. Sahih Bukhari 8.82.794; Sahih Muslim 16.4130
34) In the 1940s Martin Lings, an English scholar who converted to Sufi Islam, wrote an internationally acclaimed, comprehensive, and authoritative account of the life of Muhammad the prophet. The title of the book is "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources" It has been published in12 languages, and has received numerous awards, including acknowledgement as best biography of the prophet in English at the National Seerate Conference in Islamabad. The conference was attended by Muslim clerics from around the world. The chapter titled "The Threshold of War" seems to say that it was the Muslims who were the first aggressors against Mecca after Muhammad had migrated to Medina. Muhammad sent 8 Muslims to lie in wait for a Meccan trade caravan during the holy month. Even though this was a time of sacred truce for Arabs, the Muslims killed one man, captured2 others, and plundered their goods.
31) Most Muslims have a copy of the Quran but have never read any of the hadiths themselves. What they know about Muhammad is what they hear orally from a person called an Imam who leads them in prayer to Allah and tells them sugarcoated stories about Muhammad.
32) How can a man like Muhammad be a prophet of God? He certainly wasn't a man who had attained perfection. I hope this helps you understand what kind of man Muslims ignorantly glorify.
33) All of this information comes from a book written by a devout Muslim who converted to Christianity, Nabeel Qureshi. The title of the book is " Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus.
It is disgusting to listen to those who are not Muslim try to teach about Islam.
The original Qur'an was written in Classical Arabic and no longer spoken or well understood. When I was active, we were taught that Yusuf Ali did the best "interpretation" of it. It might be fruitful to look him up. Briefly, he was an Indian-British Barrister and died in 1953. Many people say that one can not be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time, but they lack understanding. I accept the Qur'an only. The Fatwahs and Hadiths I do not pay attention to.
 

Katia

Active member
Aug 29, 2021
334
142
43
PDX
#60
Hello Katia, question for you, if the Lord Jesus did not need to die on the Cross to 1. atone for our sins and 2. to satisfy His Father's wrath, so that we could be reconciled to Him, then what was the purpose of the Incarnation and the Cross :unsure:

Also, if that horrible death that He suffered on the Cross wasn't absolutely necessary for our salvation, wouldn't that make His Father a monster (instead His/our Abba/loving Father) :unsure:

I have a couple of other questions that I'd like to ask you (about a couple of other things that you mentioned in your last post), but this is enough for now :)

Thanks!

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - here is some Scripture for you to consider as well.


Romans 5
8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Hebrews 9
22 According to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
What I offer are simply my opinions. I do not intend to walk into someone's church and cast shade on what they say. I say that the Jews killed Jesus, and they did that to many of the prophets. Some argue that the Romans killed him. I was in Israel in 2001 and seeing what I saw there did nothing to resolve my confusion.

It is my opinion that what became the Catholics are the ones who started the "Death to cover our sins" train of thought. Please remember that this is just my opinion and nothing more. I do not claim to be a scholar.

The various denominations outside the Catholic Church are replete with differing ideas and it is difficult to respect them. None of them accept me and I have spoken to Pastors who have asked me not to return because their congregations would be too alarmed. Their are some ELCA Lutherans...