1 Peter 3:19-20 and 1 Peter 4:6 different interpretations.

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May 29, 2018
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just_truth said:
who were these captives brought by Christ in heaven in Ephesians 4:8 ?
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They are the same people who are referenced in 1 Peter 4:6. They are the saints who died before the cross. Their sins weren't paid for yet, so they waited in the paradise side of Sheol (Hades) for the Messiah to come rescue them from their current state.

When someone conquered another people group, the survivors of war would become captives of the victor. In this case, Christ conquered Death and took the captives of Death as His own captives. They were captives of Death because Death had a hold on them. When Jesus died on the cross, He reversed what Adam did in the garden, He became the highest bidder of their soul, for there is nothing more valuable than His blood. Redemption's work was complete, and it was time for the Redeemed to come home.
Diakonos the captives brought by Christ in heaven in Ephesians 4:8 are probably the resurrected saints in Matthew 27:52-53.
 

Diakonos

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The rebellious is definitely referring to the fallen angels.
Aaaaaannd?
What does "the rebellious" have to do with the quote in Ephesians 4:7? Why are you emphasizing the last part of Psalm 68:18? Why are you mentioning the phrase at all?
 

Diakonos

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Diakonos the captives brought by Christ in heaven in Ephesians 4:8 are probably the resurrected saints in Matthew 27:52-53.
Do you have any supporting verses for that idea? I am open to it within the bounds of what is written.
 
May 29, 2018
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REPOST#

I may come to agree that these were fallen angels who sinned who attempted to defiling the Messianic bloodline by taking human women as wives and corrupting mankind, which was the reason for the flood of Noah's time. But more thing I want to emphasize the reason I made this thread. How these angels possible for them to mingle with normal persons and even to have sex with them;

1.) That these fallen angels were undergone physical birth, not possessing the other bodies of humans. I do not believe that they just only possessed human body to produce their children Nephilims. Can they make their very own sperm cell or DNA by the direct possessing to other human bodies?? Certainly not.

2.) That the possible bloodline of these fallen angels who became humans(Nephilim) are came from the line of Cain belong to the ”serpent seed”.

3.) That this Nephilims did not may be started during Noah’s time but started earlier from the offspring of Cain.

4.) That there may a truth of Darwin theory that human species originate from an ape, this may true to the line of Cain.

5.) That these fallen angels were spirits in prison is different from those fallen angels and satan himself who still gone astray have no chance for salvation.

ANYBODY WHO WILL REFUTE MY STATEMENTS IS GREATLY WELCOME
 
Aug 14, 2019
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Here's something I posted some time back, on that 1 Peter 3 passage:


[quoting Gaebelein on 1 Peter 3]

"The chief question is: Did our Lord go to Hades in a disembodied state? In fact, all depends on the question of what is the true meaning of the sentence, “quickened by the Spirit.” Now, according to the interpretations of the men who teach that the Lord visited Hades, the spirits in prison, during the interval between His death and the morning of the third day, He descended into these regions while His dead body was still in the grave. Therefore, these teachers claim that His human spirit was quickened, which necessitates that the spirit which the dying Christ commended into the Father’s hands had also died. This is not only incorrect doctrine, but it is an unsound and evil doctrine. Was the holy humanity of our Lord, body, soul and spirit dead? A thousands times No! Only His body died; that is the only part of Him which could die. The text makes this clear: “He was put to death in flesh,” that is, His body. There could be no quickening of His spirit, for His spirit was alive. Furthermore, the word quickening, as we learn from Ephesians 1:20 and Ephesians 2:5-6, by comparing the two passages, applies to His physical resurrection, it is the quickening of His body. To teach that the Lord Jesus was made alive before His resurrection is unscriptural. The “quickened by the Spirit” means the raising up of His body. His human spirit needed no quickening; it was His body and only His body. And the Spirit who did the quickening is not His own spirit, that is, His human spirit, but the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 speaks of the Spirit as raising Jesus from among the dead.

"We have shown that it was an impossibility that Christ was in any way quickened while His body was not yet raised, hence a visit to Hades is positively excluded between His death and resurrection. There is only another alternative. If it is true that He descended into these regions, then it must have been after His resurrection. But that is equally untenable. The so-called “Apostle’s Creed” puts the descent between His death and resurrection and all the other theorists follow this view. We have shown what the passage does not mean. It cannot mean a visit of the disembodied Christ to Hades, for it speaks of the quickening by the Spirit, and that means His physical resurrection.

"What, then, does the passage mean? It is very simple after all. He preached by the Spirit, or in the Spirit, that is, the same Spirit who raised Him from among the dead, the Holy Spirit of life and power, to the spirits who are now in prison. But when the preaching occurred they were not in prison. And who were they? All the wicked dead for 4,000 years? The text makes it clear that they are a special class of people. They were living in the days of Noah. It is incomprehensible how some of these teachers, misinterpreting this passage, can teach that it includes all the lost, or angels which fell, or the righteous dead. The Spirit of God preached to them, that is, the Spirit who quickened the body of Christ, the same Spirit preached to the generation of unbelievers in the days of Noah. The time of the preaching, then, did not occur between the death and resurrection of Christ, but it took place in Noah’s day. Christ was not personally, or corporeally present, just as He is not present in person in this age when the gospel is preached; His Spirit is here.

"So was He present by His Spirit in the days of Noah. It is written: “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). His Spirit was then on the earth. In long-suffering God was waiting for one hundred and twenty years while the ark was preparing. His Spirit preached then. But He needed an instrument. The instrument was Noah; in him was the Spirit of Christ and as the preacher of righteousness (2Peter 2:5) he delivered the warning message of an impending judgment to those about him, who did not heed the message, passed on in disobedience, were swept away by the deluge and are now the spirits in prison. As the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets (1Peter 1:11) testifying beforehand of the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow, so the Spirit of Christ preached through Noah. This is the meaning of this passage, and any other is faulty and unscriptural."

-- https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
Yeah. "Before Abraham was, I Am."
 
May 29, 2018
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It's not a different interpretation at all. Preached, made proclamation. Same thing.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Lucy-Pevensie I had read much of commentaries that Jesus went to hades/hell was giving judgement to sprits in prison to their damnation and the phrase "made proclamation" is a more appropriate to support their view, while some interpreter used the word "preached" is a friendly term that Jesus is actually preaching the Gospel to the spirits in prison for their another chance of salvation.
 
May 29, 2018
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I'm asking if you know of any specific passages that link the raised saints in Matthew 27 to the captives in Ephesians 4
  • thou hast led captivity captive, Ps. 68:18 (Eph. 4:8)
  • they shall take them captives, whose captives they were, Isa. 14:2
  • Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken, Isa. 49:25.
  • captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed, Isa. 51:14.
  • he hath sent me … to proclaim liberty to the captives, Isa. 61:1 Luke 4:18
  • to bring out the prisoners from the prison, Isa. 42:7.
  • thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth, Isa. 49:9
  • I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit, Zech. 9:11
"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." - John 10:16
 

Diakonos

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  • thou hast led captivity captive, Ps. 68:18 (Eph. 4:8)
  • they shall take them captives, whose captives they were, Isa. 14:2
  • Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken, Isa. 49:25.
  • captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed, Isa. 51:14.
  • he hath sent me … to proclaim liberty to the captives, Isa. 61:1 Luke 4:18
  • to bring out the prisoners from the prison, Isa. 42:7.
  • thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth, Isa. 49:9
  • I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit, Zech. 9:11
"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." - John 10:16
So you're saying that all of those passages are talking about the captives Jesus led free when he ascended?
 

acts5_29

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Apr 17, 2020
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The biggest reason I have not dove deeper into my own interpretation of these passages in Peter is, it is doubtful it even applies to us. So...what happens to those in the OT...of faith and not of faith...after they and Jesus died? Doesn't really matter to us--no one from the OT is around anymore.

But I do see the potential theological implications in one view or another. For example, Catholic purgatory. So for that reason, I am interested in more.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Clearly you didn't pay any attention to the passage quoted. It looks like you just grabbed the word "generation" and went off in search of anything in Scripture using that term. That isn't the correct way to handly Scripture. Read the quoted passsage again and explain why "all these things" would fall on "this generation" if "this generation is the generation of faith".

What I quoted was the other generation .The righteous born again generation .It began with Abel
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Whereas if someone turns literal text into parables, all manner of strange innovations come in.
Strange innovation like making a sound without understanding and falling backwards mocking the prophecy of God?

How would you know the understanding of parables if to literalize the signified understanding? Remember without parable Christ spoke not. How many parables might that be?
 
May 29, 2018
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The biggest reason I have not dove deeper into my own interpretation of these passages in Peter is, it is doubtful it even applies to us. So...what happens to those in the OT...of faith and not of faith...after they and Jesus died? Doesn't really matter to us--no one from the OT is around anymore.

But I do see the potential theological implications in one view or another. For example, Catholic purgatory. So for that reason, I am interested in more.
Scripturally it is not applied to us(normal persons), the spirits in prison theologically refer to fallen angels who did not keep their first state but became humans then after their physical death being bound in hell.

It seems like purgatory the spirits in prisons were purified.

Humans after their death cannot be imprisoned because they are not like angels that are spirit beings.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Scripturally it is not applied to us(normal persons), the spirits in prison theologically refer to fallen angels who did not keep their first state but became humans then after their physical death being bound in hell.

It seems like purgatory the spirits in prisons were purified.

Humans after their death cannot be imprisoned because they are not like angels that are spirit beings.
The spirts in prison are the born again spirts of God. Their graves were opened and their new spirts entered heaven.

Purgatory an abomination is a damming doctrine that does despite to the Spirit of Grace. Making it to no effect. It assumes that after we die sufferings is still possible rather than what the Bible teaches . The dead that never rise .Their corrupted temporal spirit under the letter of the law "death" and their spiritless bodies return to where they came from.

Hell is carrying out the wage of sin all the days on one life. Believers have rest in their sufferings being yoked with Christ who works with them .
 
May 29, 2018
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The spirits in prison are the born again spirts of God. Their graves were opened and their new spirts entered heaven.

Purgatory an abomination is a damming doctrine that does despite to the Spirit of Grace. Making it to no effect. It assumes that after we die sufferings is still possible rather than what the Bible teaches . The dead that never rise .Their corrupted temporal spirit under the letter of the law "death" and their spiritless bodies return to where they came from.

Hell is carrying out the wage of sin all the days on one life. Believers have rest in their sufferings being yoked with Christ who works with them .
Those who are yet in spirits in prison are not born of spirits, they were bound/prison spirits because they were disobedient, read 1 Peter 3:19–20.

I also do not believe in Purgatory that the humans soul are being purified, what I only tell that its like the Purgatory that those fallen angels who were in spirits in prison being purified.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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Matt 5:22

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.


Jesus is teaching us about eternity.

Matt 5:23

“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.


Jesus tteaches that if we are in someone's debt that we need to make things right before we die

25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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You said it will fall upon ”this generation” and that’s what happened, it fell upon them in that generation. See below, everything is about Jerusalem and the generation alive at that time.

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
It would appear this generation is the generation of faith. (believers) All in Christ beginning with Abel eternal life.

Not the evil generation no faith .All in Adam die.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
What I quoted was the other generation .The righteous born again generation .It began with Abel
Here's the issue: Miknik and KJV1611 were discussing Matthew 23, in which Jesus was declaring what would happen to "this generation". You quoted a passage from Deuteronomy and referenced a couple of other passages that have nothing to do with Jesus' statement. Instead of making sure that your comments were directly relevant to the topic at hand, you took the word "generation" and went off on an irrelevant tangent.

Your comment, "It would appear this generation is the generation of faith" is essentially saying that the wrath of God would be poured out on the faithful in Christ. Is that what you mean? Are Christians going to answer for the blood of the prophets?