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No one has ever said Jesus was not God. What was said is that God is not a three in one trinity. The Father and the Son (the Word) are different persons in the same Family. You know, the family that Christians are born into at the resurrection. They will be the children of God. That makes them God. Not in the power, glory or authority, but of the same family.
Since we speak about pharisees, why did you, JW, truncated the Word of God?
Examples:
The book of JW says in Romans 10,13: For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah* will be saved.”
King James Version Romans 10,13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Book of JW in Matthew 3,3: This, in fact, is the one spoken of through Isaiah the prophet in these words: “A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah!
King James version : For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
JW version of Luke 23,21: Then they began to yell, saying: “To the stake with him! To the stake with him!”
KJ version: But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him
JW, 1 Corinthians 1, 18: For the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is God’s power.
KJ version: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
JW on John 1,18: No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.
KJ version: No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
JW on Luke 23,43: And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”
KJ version: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
(why did you, JW, moved the comma?)
JW on John 3,13: Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.
KJ version: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
JW on Acts 20,28: Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own Son.
KJV: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
JW on John 1,1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
KJV: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JW on Luke 1,68: “Let Jehovah* be praised, the God of Israel, because he has turned his attention to his people and has brought them deliverance.
KJV: Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
JW on Exodus 3,14: So God said to Moses: “I Will Become What I Choose*to Become.”* And he added: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘I Will Become has sent me to you.’”
KJV: And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
JW on John 8,25: So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all?
KJV: Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
JW on John 8,58: Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
KJV: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
JW on Matthew 6,13: And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver*us from the wicked one.’
KJV: And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
These are only few from the multitude of the verses that have been translated in order to fit an agenda. So, once again, who are the pharisees?
Examples:
The book of JW says in Romans 10,13: For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah* will be saved.”
King James Version Romans 10,13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Book of JW in Matthew 3,3: This, in fact, is the one spoken of through Isaiah the prophet in these words: “A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah!
King James version : For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
JW version of Luke 23,21: Then they began to yell, saying: “To the stake with him! To the stake with him!”
KJ version: But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him
JW, 1 Corinthians 1, 18: For the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is God’s power.
KJ version: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
JW on John 1,18: No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.
KJ version: No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
JW on Luke 23,43: And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”
KJ version: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
(why did you, JW, moved the comma?)
JW on John 3,13: Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.
KJ version: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
JW on Acts 20,28: Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own Son.
KJV: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
JW on John 1,1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
KJV: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JW on Luke 1,68: “Let Jehovah* be praised, the God of Israel, because he has turned his attention to his people and has brought them deliverance.
KJV: Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
JW on Exodus 3,14: So God said to Moses: “I Will Become What I Choose*to Become.”* And he added: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘I Will Become has sent me to you.’”
KJV: And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
JW on John 8,25: So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all?
KJV: Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
JW on John 8,58: Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
KJV: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
JW on Matthew 6,13: And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver*us from the wicked one.’
KJV: And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
These are only few from the multitude of the verses that have been translated in order to fit an agenda. So, once again, who are the pharisees?
Not a JW here, but I don't believe in three in one oil, the above is the only scripture that really seems to say Christ was on earth and in heaven at the same time. Problem here is the word "is". How should it be translated...
G5607
ὤν, οὖσα, ὄν
ōn ousa on
oan, oo'-sah, on
The feminine, the neuter and the present participle of G1510; being: - be, come, have.
And we find that is should say that He comes from or came from heaven.
G5607
ὤν, οὖσα, ὄν
ōn ousa on
oan, oo'-sah, on
The feminine, the neuter and the present participle of G1510; being: - be, come, have.
And we find that is should say that He comes from or came from heaven.
The doctrine of trinity is scriptural.
There is one Supreme Being, God, who eternally exists in three Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
These indicate plurality within the Godhead:
Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Jesus is fully God and fully man, and possesses all divine attributes.
Jesus is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Here we see the activity of all three Persons in the Godhead:
- Jesus baptised,
- God the Father testified of Jesus' eternal sonship,
- and the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus
There is one Supreme Being, God, who eternally exists in three Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
These indicate plurality within the Godhead:
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Jesus is fully God and fully man, and possesses all divine attributes.
Colossians 2:8-9
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Jesus is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Here we see the activity of all three Persons in the Godhead:
- Jesus baptised,
- God the Father testified of Jesus' eternal sonship,
- and the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus
Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
My neighbor belongs to a church that teaches what this thread teaches. When I gave her my views, she got a stubborn look on her face and said she just went by scripture and quoted this bible verse: John_14:28 You heard me say to you, 'I am going away, and I am coming to you.' If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I.
When I pointed to other verses that said Christ was God who sits on the right hand of God, and that Christ said that before He was resurrected, she repeated "I just go by the bible", she left, and hasn't been back to visit again.
When I pointed to other verses that said Christ was God who sits on the right hand of God, and that Christ said that before He was resurrected, she repeated "I just go by the bible", she left, and hasn't been back to visit again.
Another blatant example where the Jehovah Witnessers changed the Bible:
Romans 9,5 is the verse that clearly attests Jesus Christ`s deity: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
The congregation of JW manipulated the ponctuation of the same verse like this: To them the forefathers belong, and from them the Christ descended according to the flesh. God, who is over all, be praised forever. Amen.
Where there was a comma, they have put a dot.
Romans 9,5 is the verse that clearly attests Jesus Christ`s deity: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
The congregation of JW manipulated the ponctuation of the same verse like this: To them the forefathers belong, and from them the Christ descended according to the flesh. God, who is over all, be praised forever. Amen.
Where there was a comma, they have put a dot.
I wish you could at least believe in a trinity - at Jesus baptism all 3 were there and as I understand it - it is the 3 are one God. Matthew 3:16&17
16 - When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water, and behold the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 - And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
As I read your questions above to me the only way some of them would work is if you believed in a trinity. Hope you find your answers. Love in Christ.
16 - When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water, and behold the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 - And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
As I read your questions above to me the only way some of them would work is if you believed in a trinity. Hope you find your answers. Love in Christ.
D
It Puzzles Me To Thing How Can I Answer This 10 Questions, While The Trinitarians Can Not,Being Real That Is. So I Asked
(1) Can One Begotten Himself? While God In Hebr 1:5 Said Thou Are My Son This Day Have I Begotten Thee ?
Did Jeusus become created when he was begotten? Jesus said he saw satan fall like lighting and that was long before the "Begetting". The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:26-38) and that is the moment Jesus was begotten, not created.
(2) Can One Say, My Father Is Greater Than I; And Yet Be The Most High God, The Almighty, Who Only Has Imortality
1 Tim 6:15-16
While Jesus was on earth he was a man. He veiled Himself of His divine tributes (Phil 2:7). This means Jesus allowed himself to experience the limitations of being a man. For more on this please read : http://carm.org/christianity/christian-doctrine/if-jesus-god-then-why-did-he-not-know-time-his-return
(3) Can One Say, He Does Not Know The Day Or The Hour,And Yet Only The Father Knows/?Mark 13:32
See answer to question number 2.
(4) Can One Say, There Is NO GOD Besides Me, Isaiah 44:8, And Yet Say In John 20:17,I Am Ascending To My Father
And Your Father,And To My GOD AND YOUR GOD?
Jesus as a man had to worship the Father. Yet John 1:1 clearly identifies Jesus as God. As you pointed out in Isaiaj 44:8 there is only one God (Duet. 6:4) and if Jesus is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God then they are the trinity.
(5) Can One Say, I And The Father Are One John 10:30,And Yet Say,Not My Will ,But Your Will Be Done, Mat 26:39-42.
See answer to question number 2 above.
(6) Can One Sit On His Own Right Hand? Mat 22:42-46 Sit On MY RIGHT HAND, Until I Make Thy Enemies Thy Footstool.
This is an obvious error and "straw man argument called modalism. Modalism is a false concept of the trinity. Modalism simply stated is one God who can assume to be the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit. Jesus is seperate and distinct from the Father as clealry stated any reputable definition of the doctrine of the trinity. JW's in particular love to mock the trinity by using examples of modalism. Modalism is false doctrine. See more here; Modalism|What is Modalism? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
(7) Can One Say,Why Call Me Good,; There Is None Good,But The Father, And Yet He Is The Father/? BE REAL...
This is a common argument against the trinity by Muslims. First, Jesus is not the Father as you have stated in this question. Again you need to know the difference between what Christians actually believe and modalism (see answer above).
(8) Can One Subject All Things Under His Feet;And Yet He Being Exempt ? 1 Cor 15:27.
All things in Heaven and elsewhere are under Jesus Christ. That is why the bible says Phil 2:9-11 "
Compare with Romans 14:11 and Psalms 72:11
(1) Can One Begotten Himself? While God In Hebr 1:5 Said Thou Are My Son This Day Have I Begotten Thee ?
Did Jeusus become created when he was begotten? Jesus said he saw satan fall like lighting and that was long before the "Begetting". The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:26-38) and that is the moment Jesus was begotten, not created.
(2) Can One Say, My Father Is Greater Than I; And Yet Be The Most High God, The Almighty, Who Only Has Imortality
1 Tim 6:15-16
While Jesus was on earth he was a man. He veiled Himself of His divine tributes (Phil 2:7). This means Jesus allowed himself to experience the limitations of being a man. For more on this please read : http://carm.org/christianity/christian-doctrine/if-jesus-god-then-why-did-he-not-know-time-his-return
(3) Can One Say, He Does Not Know The Day Or The Hour,And Yet Only The Father Knows/?Mark 13:32
See answer to question number 2.
(4) Can One Say, There Is NO GOD Besides Me, Isaiah 44:8, And Yet Say In John 20:17,I Am Ascending To My Father
And Your Father,And To My GOD AND YOUR GOD?
Jesus as a man had to worship the Father. Yet John 1:1 clearly identifies Jesus as God. As you pointed out in Isaiaj 44:8 there is only one God (Duet. 6:4) and if Jesus is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God then they are the trinity.
(5) Can One Say, I And The Father Are One John 10:30,And Yet Say,Not My Will ,But Your Will Be Done, Mat 26:39-42.
See answer to question number 2 above.
(6) Can One Sit On His Own Right Hand? Mat 22:42-46 Sit On MY RIGHT HAND, Until I Make Thy Enemies Thy Footstool.
This is an obvious error and "straw man argument called modalism. Modalism is a false concept of the trinity. Modalism simply stated is one God who can assume to be the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit. Jesus is seperate and distinct from the Father as clealry stated any reputable definition of the doctrine of the trinity. JW's in particular love to mock the trinity by using examples of modalism. Modalism is false doctrine. See more here; Modalism|What is Modalism? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
(7) Can One Say,Why Call Me Good,; There Is None Good,But The Father, And Yet He Is The Father/? BE REAL...
This is a common argument against the trinity by Muslims. First, Jesus is not the Father as you have stated in this question. Again you need to know the difference between what Christians actually believe and modalism (see answer above).
(8) Can One Subject All Things Under His Feet;And Yet He Being Exempt ? 1 Cor 15:27.
All things in Heaven and elsewhere are under Jesus Christ. That is why the bible says Phil 2:9-11 "
Compare with Romans 14:11 and Psalms 72:11
(9) Can One Receive A Kingdom To Reign , And At The End Deliver That Kingdom To Himself,And Be Subject To Himself?
11 Cor 15:28.
Again, you are making the error that Jesus is the Father and this is false. See answer to question 7 on Modalism.
(10) NO WONDER Prov 30:4 The Question Is Asked, Who Has Ascended Into Heaven Or Descended ? Who Has Gather
The Wind In His Fists ? Who Has Bound The Waters In A garment? Who Has Establish All The Ends Of The Earth?
WHAT IS HIS NAME AND WHAT IS HIS SONS NAME If You Know?...
Not sure what you are asking.
For information on what the trinity is: http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
There you go John. His questions are basic, flimsy, pedestrian and even based on error trinitarians rejected long ago. I have answered them and now you can not claim no one can answer them.
N
I Will Be Glad To Answer Post (2) , Hebr 1: 5 Says This,For Unto Which Of The Angels Said HE ( GOD ) Thou Art My SON, This Day Have I BEGOTTEN THEE, ( Jesus ) And Again I ( GOD ) Will Be To Him A Father, And He ( Jesus ) Shall Be To Me (GOD)
A SON,. V 6 And Again , When He Bringeth In The First- Begotten Into The World, HE SAITH (GOD) And Let ALL The Angels
Off God Worship HIM (Jesus). If God Then Commands The Angels To Worship Him, Why Is So Hard For You To Understand
How Jesus Did Allowed Men To Worship Him? " Because GOD SAY SO.. Ihope I Answer To You Post 2. God Bless
A SON,. V 6 And Again , When He Bringeth In The First- Begotten Into The World, HE SAITH (GOD) And Let ALL The Angels
Off God Worship HIM (Jesus). If God Then Commands The Angels To Worship Him, Why Is So Hard For You To Understand
How Jesus Did Allowed Men To Worship Him? " Because GOD SAY SO.. Ihope I Answer To You Post 2. God Bless
N
I Can Not Allow Strange Doctrines Into The Doctrine Of Christ, 2 John 9, He That has Not The Doctrine Of Christ Has NO GOD. Hebr 13:8-9 Jesus Christ ,The Same Yesterday, And TODAY , And FOREVER. V 9 Be Not Carried About With VARIOUS And Strange DOCTRINES, And Trinity To Me Is Strange Doctrine, Since I Did Not Find It Not Even Once In The Bible.
So Jesus Christ Does Not Change One Time He Is A Son The Other Time Is A Father, And Another Time GOD, As you Notice
Above, He Is UNCHANGEBLE . He Shall Be To Me A Son, And I Will Be To Him A FATHER. God Bless...
So Jesus Christ Does Not Change One Time He Is A Son The Other Time Is A Father, And Another Time GOD, As you Notice
Above, He Is UNCHANGEBLE . He Shall Be To Me A Son, And I Will Be To Him A FATHER. God Bless...
