10 Ireconsilable Question The "Modern Pharisees " Can Not Answer.

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starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
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#41
Let Me Ask You This Question Then . If This Supreme Being As You Put It, Can GOD Exist Without The Other Two?
Because You Said That He Consists Of The THREE, Your Supreme Being, Yes OR No Answer Will Do, Thanks.
God is eternal. He has always been and will always be in existence.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#42
The doctrine of trinity is scriptural.

There is one Supreme Being, God, who eternally exists in three Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

These indicate plurality within the Godhead:
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Jesus is fully God and fully man, and possesses all divine attributes.

Colossians 2:8-9
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


Jesus is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit. Here we see the activity of all three Persons in the Godhead:
- Jesus baptised,
- God the Father testified of Jesus' eternal sonship,
- and the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus
Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
I agree with the above post by Starfield! And will add that all three Father/Son and Holy Spirit have their part in and accomplished work when it comes to salvation, justification and sanctification.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,721
3,659
113
#43
I Will Be Glad To Answer Post (2) , Hebr 1: 5 Says This,For Unto Which Of The Angels Said HE ( GOD ) Thou Art My SON, This Day Have I BEGOTTEN THEE, ( Jesus ) And Again I ( GOD ) Will Be To Him A Father, And He ( Jesus ) Shall Be To Me (GOD)
A SON,. V 6 And Again , When He Bringeth In The First- Begotten Into The World, HE SAITH (GOD) And Let ALL The Angels
Off God Worship HIM (Jesus). If God Then Commands The Angels To Worship Him, Why Is So Hard For You To Understand
How Jesus Did Allowed Men To Worship Him? " Because GOD SAY SO.. Ihope I Answer To You Post 2. God Bless
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
This was a temptation by satan for Jesus (the God/man) to worship someone other than God. As our representative Jesus gave the command that we are to worship God alone. Where does Scripture tell us to worship someone other than God?
 

Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
26
48
#44
I Will Be Glad To Answer Post (2) , Hebr 1: 5 Says This,For Unto Which Of The Angels Said HE ( GOD ) Thou Art My SON, This Day Have I BEGOTTEN THEE, ( Jesus ) And Again I ( GOD ) Will Be To Him A Father, And He ( Jesus ) Shall Be To Me (GOD)
A SON,. V 6 And Again , When He Bringeth In The First- Begotten Into The World, HE SAITH (GOD) And Let ALL The Angels
Off God Worship HIM (Jesus). If God Then Commands The Angels To Worship Him, Why Is So Hard For You To Understand
How Jesus Did Allowed Men To Worship Him? " Because GOD SAY SO.. Ihope I Answer To You Post 2. God Bless
I really REALLY recommend you read at least the rest of Hebrews 1, if not the whole book. The bits where it mentions that JEsus is the exact revelation and representation of God, where he is credited with creation, where he is called God, etc, etc, are all a nice balance to what you're saying.

The overriding theme of Hebrews is the uniqueness of God, in revelation, in priestliness, above the angels, etc. This is consistently connected to Jesus intrinsic qualities

Now, certainly, Jesus is worshipped at least in part because the Father commands it. But God doesn't just arbitrarily pick Jesus to be an object of worship. It is because Jesus and the Father are one.
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
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#45
It Puzzles Me To Thing How Can I Answer This 10 Questions, While The Trinitarians Can Not,Being Real That Is. So I Asked
(1) Can One Begotten Himself? While God In Hebr 1:5 Said Thou Are My Son This Day Have I Begotten Thee ?
(2) Can One Say, My Father Is Greater Than I; And Yet Be The Most High God, The Almighty, Who Only Has Imortality
1 Tim 6:15-16
(3) Can One Say, He Does Not Know The Day Or The Hour,And Yet Only The Father Knows/?Mark 13:32
(4) Can One Say, There Is NO GOD Besides Me, Isaiah 44:8, And Yet Say In John 20:17,I Am Ascending To My Father
And Your Father,And To My GOD AND YOUR GOD?
(5) Can One Say, I And The Father Are One John 10:30,And Yet Say,Not My Will ,But Your Will Be Done, Mat 26:39-42.
(6) Can One Sit On His Own Right Hand? Mat 22:42-46 Sit On MY RIGHT HAND, Until I Make Thy Enemies Thy Footstool.
(7) Can One Say,Why Call Me Good,; There Is None Good,But The Father, And Yet He Is The Father/? BE REAL...
(8) Can One Subject All Things Under His Feet;And Yet He Being Exempt ? 1 Cor 15:27.
(9) Can One Receive A Kingdom To Reign , And At The End Deliver That Kingdom To Himself,And Be Subject To Himself?
11 Cor 15:28.
(10) NO WONDER Prov 30:4 The Question Is Asked, Who Has Ascended Into Heaven Or Descended ? Who Has Gather
The Wind In His Fists ? Who Has Bound The Waters In A garment? Who Has Establish All The Ends Of The Earth?
WHAT IS HIS NAME AND WHAT IS HIS SONS NAME If You Know?...
This 10 Ireconsilable Questions That The Modern Pharisees Can NOT ANSWER,Prevent Me From Becoming
A Trinitarian, .....And Be Realistic ....... God Bless......


1 Corinthians 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”

I wonder which end of Judas did satan enter into him? Was it through the mouth while he was eating the bread, and or through his bottom while he went to use the commode? And I wonder did Judas had to have stitches after satan entered him?
 
Jan 13, 2014
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#47
Yo are wasting valuable time debating useless topics
I would get out your Bible and plead for a relationship before the plagues hit.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#48
No one has ever said Jesus was not God. What was said is that God is not a three in one trinity. The Father and the Son (the Word) are different persons in the same Family. You know, the family that Christians are born into at the resurrection. They will be the children of God. That makes them God. Not in the power, glory or authority, but of the same family.
Well if the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God then you have three gods or three beings who are the one God. The Jews taught monotheism (one God) so theism can't be a solution. The JW claim there is God(the Father or Jehovah) and admit Jesus is god (small g) but that means the have two Gods.

So as soon as one rejects the concept of the trinity they run into problems. Also when one rejects the trinity I have noticed they have many other theological errors. I wonder why? Could it be they no longer have the Holy Spirit to guide them or is it demons?
 
D

danschance

Guest
#49
I really REALLY recommend you read at least the rest of Hebrews 1, if not the whole book. The bits where it mentions that JEsus is the exact revelation and representation of God, where he is credited with creation, where he is called God, etc, etc, are all a nice balance to what you're saying.

The overriding theme of Hebrews is the uniqueness of God, in revelation, in priestliness, above the angels, etc. This is consistently connected to Jesus intrinsic qualities

Now, certainly, Jesus is worshipped at least in part because the Father commands it. But God doesn't just arbitrarily pick Jesus to be an object of worship. It is because Jesus and the Father are one.

The JWs claim Jesus is an angel, which is laughable. Error begets error.
 
D

danschance

Guest
#50
I Can Not Allow Strange Doctrines Into The Doctrine Of Christ, 2 John 9, He That has Not The Doctrine Of Christ Has NO GOD. Hebr 13:8-9 Jesus Christ ,The Same Yesterday, And TODAY , And FOREVER. V 9 Be Not Carried About With VARIOUS And Strange DOCTRINES, And Trinity To Me Is Strange Doctrine, Since I Did Not Find It Not Even Once In The Bible.
So Jesus Christ Does Not Change One Time He Is A Son The Other Time Is A Father, And Another Time GOD, As you Notice
Above, He Is UNCHANGEBLE . He Shall Be To Me A Son, And I Will Be To Him A FATHER. God Bless...
Too late. Denying the trinity means you have already accepted error.
 
Dec 29, 2013
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#51
Why would anyone apply the word Pharisee to Christians? The most distinguishable characteristic of the Judean Pharisees was their denial that Jesus was the Christ. This does not describe any type of Christian. If anyone qualifies as "Modern Pharisees" it is those who currently deny that Jesus is the Christ, those who deny and confess not that Messiah "is come in the flesh" (2 John v. 7).
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#52
God is eternal. He has always been and will always be in existence.
OK, that is absolutely true. Christ is eternal, He has always been and always will be in existence. So, how does that prove they are three in one? The Father and Christ are separate beings.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
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#53
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
This was a temptation by satan for Jesus (the God/man) to worship someone other than God. As our representative Jesus gave the command that we are to worship God alone. Where does Scripture tell us to worship someone other than God?
Uh, so the temptation here was to worship Himself? How does that square with Christ being humble, meek and lowly?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
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#54
Too late. Denying the trinity means you have already accepted error.
Personally, I would say that accepting the trinity is accepting error. The trinity doctrine states that God is three in one and is a closed godhead. Where does that leave the sons of God and daughters of God? They cannot enter the family as children of God because the godhead is a closed three in one.

God is not a closed trinity, He is a Family of multiple personages and His plan is to bring billions more into the Family. The trinity doctrine actually denies His plan to bring sons and daughters into His Family.
 
May 15, 2013
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#55
OK, that is absolutely true. Christ is eternal, He has always been and always will be in existence. So, how does that prove they are three in one? The Father and Christ are separate beings.
John 10:38
But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”

John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#56
John 10:38
But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
If the Father is truly inside Christ and Christ inside the Father, how did this happen?

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"

Thayer has the word "in" as...

G1722
ἐν
en
Thayer Definition:
1) in, by, with etc.
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537)
Citing in TDNT: 2:537, 233

It makes much more sense in this case to say the Father is "with" or "by" Christ rather than inside Him.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
How would you read this?

Gen 2:22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."
Gen 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Care to apply the same idea here? You and your spouse Siamese twins? Or does this mean that you are in full agreement and act together?


John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Oh, then if they actually seen the Father visually here, then this is not true and Christ lied...

Joh 5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

He was simply telling His disciples that this is what the Father does, this is what the Father says and this is how the Father thinks.
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
0
#57
If the Father is truly inside Christ and Christ inside the Father, how did this happen?

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"

Thayer has the word "in" as...

G1722
ἐν
en
Thayer Definition:
1) in, by, with etc.
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537)
Citing in TDNT: 2:537, 233

It makes much more sense in this case to say the Father is "with" or "by" Christ rather than inside Him.



How would you read this?

Gen 2:22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."
Gen 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Care to apply the same idea here? You and your spouse Siamese twins? Or does this mean that you are in full agreement and act together?




Oh, then if they actually seen the Father visually here, then this is not true and Christ lied...

Joh 5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

He was simply telling His disciples that this is what the Father does, this is what the Father says and this is how the Father thinks.
Spirits are not beings; we are unable to see their form unless they've present to us a form so that we can feel comfortable. The Ark of the Covenant was an object to represent God, but the people wasn't satisfied with that object because they wanted to be like the other nations. God has given them a king of to please them, but the kings wasn't able to perform the duties that God only can. Now God has came in the flesh, but the people wanted to destroy Him. And now God is doing it His way,and that is to get the people adjusted to His unseen form and which the third eye only can see. But if God shut down the other senses, then they probably can see.

Isaiah 6:10
Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”

Matthew 11:15
Whoever has ears, let them hear.


1 Samuel:5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”

6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you.

John 1:4
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
 
N

Nick1939

Guest
#58
Can you survive without your brain?
Can your brain survive without your body?
Can your body survive without your spirit?

NO. NO. and NO
Are You Say That GOD Can NOT EXIST Without Jesus Or The Holy Spirit? Be More Specific , Applakable To The Question.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#59
Spirits are not beings; we are unable to see their form unless they've present to us a form so that we can feel comfortable. The Ark of the Covenant was an object to represent God, but the people wasn't satisfied with that object because they wanted to be like the other nations. God has given them a king of to please them, but the kings wasn't able to perform the duties that God only can. Now God has came in the flesh, but the people wanted to destroy Him. And now God is doing it His way,and that is to get the people adjusted to His unseen form and which the third eye only can see. But if God shut down the other senses, then they probably can see.

Isaiah 6:10
Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”

Matthew 11:15
Whoever has ears, let them hear.


1 Samuel:5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”

6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you.

John 1:4
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
?????

This ignores scripture and fact.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#60
Are You Say That GOD Can NOT EXIST Without Jesus Or The Holy Spirit? Be More Specific , Applakable To The Question.
The Father had to exist for three days while Christ was dead. Either that or Christ didn't really die and our sins are not really paid for.