10 Questions about OSAS
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I compared what the OSAS teach with God's Word.... turns out the OSAS teachers are cherry pickers who only accept a few verses and ignore the rest of God's Word.
This is because they have been taught by the false teachers to NOT accept the whole counsel of God... and sadly, they will suffer greatly for their false doctrine.
We gonna find out when the future gets here that... God meant ALL that He said concerning salvation... not just bits and pieces as the OSAS peoples suppose.
Their doctrine got started with augustine who John Calvin and Martin Luther both were big fans of augustine's writings... which is where they got their false doctrine from.
Take time off for warning others that OSAS is not biblical and is false doctrine ? ? ?
Yeah, 'ol slewfoot would really enjoy that
This is because they have been taught by the false teachers to NOT accept the whole counsel of God... and sadly, they will suffer greatly for their false doctrine.
We gonna find out when the future gets here that... God meant ALL that He said concerning salvation... not just bits and pieces as the OSAS peoples suppose.
Their doctrine got started with augustine who John Calvin and Martin Luther both were big fans of augustine's writings... which is where they got their false doctrine from.
Take time off for warning others that OSAS is not biblical and is false doctrine ? ? ?
Yeah, 'ol slewfoot would really enjoy that
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It seems that you are the cherry picker who has been repeating one passage of Scripture over and over again without even understanding what it is really teaching.
"The whole counsel of God" means taking the entire teaching on salvation and then coming to a conclusion. And the Bible is very clear. When God saves someone by His grace, that person cannot be plucked out of His hand, or out of the hand of Christ (John 10:27-30).
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.
"No man" includes the believer who may sin or wander away, but will be drawn back by whatever means God chooses.
"The whole counsel of God" means taking the entire teaching on salvation and then coming to a conclusion. And the Bible is very clear. When God saves someone by His grace, that person cannot be plucked out of His hand, or out of the hand of Christ (John 10:27-30).
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.
"No man" includes the believer who may sin or wander away, but will be drawn back by whatever means God chooses.
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JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit,.... There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him.
These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God, being none of the fruits of his Spirit and grace: and such branches the husbandman taketh away; removes them from that sort of being which they had in Christ.
By some means or another he discovers them to the saints to be what they are; sometimes he suffers persecution to arise because of the word, and these men are quickly offended, and depart of their own accord; or they fall into erroneous principles, and set up for themselves, and separate from the churches of Christ; or they become guilty of scandalous enormities, and so are removed from their fellowship by excommunication; or if neither of these should be the case, but these tares should grow together with the wheat till the harvest, the angels will be sent forth, who will gather out of the kingdom of God all that offend and do iniquity, and cast them into a furnace of fire, as branches withered, and fit to be burnt.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit,.... There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him.
These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God, being none of the fruits of his Spirit and grace: and such branches the husbandman taketh away; removes them from that sort of being which they had in Christ.
By some means or another he discovers them to the saints to be what they are; sometimes he suffers persecution to arise because of the word, and these men are quickly offended, and depart of their own accord; or they fall into erroneous principles, and set up for themselves, and separate from the churches of Christ; or they become guilty of scandalous enormities, and so are removed from their fellowship by excommunication; or if neither of these should be the case, but these tares should grow together with the wheat till the harvest, the angels will be sent forth, who will gather out of the kingdom of God all that offend and do iniquity, and cast them into a furnace of fire, as branches withered, and fit to be burnt.
Jimmy, just put things in context.
That is all.
For eg..'faith without works is dead'
Salvation is not the subject of the surrounding verses...but people using faith they already have.
Not that Rahab etc...HAD to do their works or that their works proved that they were converted, but that was their voluntary response to being converted.
That is all.
For eg..'faith without works is dead'
Salvation is not the subject of the surrounding verses...but people using faith they already have.
Not that Rahab etc...HAD to do their works or that their works proved that they were converted, but that was their voluntary response to being converted.
Au Contraire, precious friend, please prayerfully And Carefully consider
All The Many [ cherry-picked ] Plain And Clear Passages:
God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance
Because Of: Christ's All-Sufficient Work On The Cross!
Amen!, eh?
All The Many [ cherry-picked ] Plain And Clear Passages:
God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance
Because Of: Christ's All-Sufficient Work On The Cross!
Amen!, eh?
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Yes... and those that hear His voice... and follow Him...
Are NOT committing suicide!
Those that are led by the Holy Spirit are the true Children of God (Romans 8:14)... and NEWS FLASH!!!, the Holy Spirit has NEVER led anyone to blow their brains out! Not once!
The Lord put 1 Corinthians 3:16,17 in His Word because we reap what we sow YO!... sorry pal, it ios YOU who have failed to understand why the Lord said what He did in 1 Corinthians 3:16,17
Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!
When one sows DEATH by killing themselves.... they shall reap DEATH... because by kiling themselves, DEATH is what they wanted... and so the Lord grants them separation from Himself, as in spending eternity being torments in the eternal flame of hell
And... if they had not done good works that would have proven they did not having saving faith... meaning, they are not saved.
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
If it were by faith alone and no action is required on our part... then Jesus would not have said “let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” in Luke 9:23.
Only living faith saves, since faith without works is dead... faith alone is not saving faith because there's no good fruit being produced by that faith because it is dead as in the person is not acting like their faith is true and real. Folks that believe this are deceived according to James 1:22 which tells us to “doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves”.
God does not accept dead faith as that faith is no better than the devil’s faith! (James 2:19)
Philippians 4:13 tells us "I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me" so this agrees with John 15 that the Lord is the One bearing good fruit thru us IF we are co laborers with the Lord and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us (Romans 8:14) and IF we allow the Holy Spirit to live in us (Romans 8:9)
Matthew 7:18,19
A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Reckon Jesus didn't get the memo from the so called reformers that salvation is by faith only??? (see James 2:14-26)
The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (walking after the flesh – see Gal 6:7,8), and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.
Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).
Martin Luther was a known drunk so I can see how he would want to leave the part about works out so he could continue drinking his beloved booze which is living in sin! (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-13)
Quite the quandary here... who shall we say is in error the Lord or the reformers??? That tis the question!
Are NOT committing suicide!
Those that are led by the Holy Spirit are the true Children of God (Romans 8:14)... and NEWS FLASH!!!, the Holy Spirit has NEVER led anyone to blow their brains out! Not once!
The Lord put 1 Corinthians 3:16,17 in His Word because we reap what we sow YO!... sorry pal, it ios YOU who have failed to understand why the Lord said what He did in 1 Corinthians 3:16,17
Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!
When one sows DEATH by killing themselves.... they shall reap DEATH... because by kiling themselves, DEATH is what they wanted... and so the Lord grants them separation from Himself, as in spending eternity being torments in the eternal flame of hell
And... if they had not done good works that would have proven they did not having saving faith... meaning, they are not saved.
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
If it were by faith alone and no action is required on our part... then Jesus would not have said “let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” in Luke 9:23.
Only living faith saves, since faith without works is dead... faith alone is not saving faith because there's no good fruit being produced by that faith because it is dead as in the person is not acting like their faith is true and real. Folks that believe this are deceived according to James 1:22 which tells us to “doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves”.
God does not accept dead faith as that faith is no better than the devil’s faith! (James 2:19)
Philippians 4:13 tells us "I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me" so this agrees with John 15 that the Lord is the One bearing good fruit thru us IF we are co laborers with the Lord and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us (Romans 8:14) and IF we allow the Holy Spirit to live in us (Romans 8:9)
Matthew 7:18,19
A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Reckon Jesus didn't get the memo from the so called reformers that salvation is by faith only??? (see James 2:14-26)
The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (walking after the flesh – see Gal 6:7,8), and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.
Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).
Martin Luther was a known drunk so I can see how he would want to leave the part about works out so he could continue drinking his beloved booze which is living in sin! (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-13)
Quite the quandary here... who shall we say is in error the Lord or the reformers??? That tis the question!
What does any of this have to do with "Once Saved Always Saved"???????????
Who ever said, that any TRUE Christian Believer has ever committed suicide? Note: I said TRUE Believer.. not someone who is carrying the title. There are many, many religionist compared to TRUE Believers.
You don't understand what "Faith alone, in Christ alone" really means, that's obvious.
What a horrible misuse of both Romans 8:9 and 8:14. You posted: IF we are co laborers with the Lord and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us (Romans 8:14) and IF we allow the Holy Spirit to live in us (Romans 8:9)
Romans 8:14 is not teaching any concept of "letting" the Spirit lead us. It is stating a true fact:
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Simple fact, If you are led by the Spirit, you are a son of God.
Your understanding of Romans 8:9, is even worse. Where are you getting this ridiculous notion that this verse teaches.. IF we allow the Holy Spirit to live in us... It is not teaching that one "allows" the Holy Spirit to live in us - it again is stating a few facts:
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Fact - You are not in the flesh (That is to say: The ways of the flesh),
Fact - IF the Spirit of God is dwelling in you. You don't allow the Spirit to come in. God sends His Spirit to dwell in the Believer. This "IF"
is asking: Is the Spirit dwelling in you are not?
Fact - But if you have not the Spirit of Christ.
Fact - Then you are none of His (You don't belong to Christ. You are not one of His sheep).
Please try to remember, the intended listeners, of the letter Paul wrote to the Romans, are believers - NOT unbelievers.
Who ever said, that any TRUE Christian Believer has ever committed suicide? Note: I said TRUE Believer.. not someone who is carrying the title. There are many, many religionist compared to TRUE Believers.
You don't understand what "Faith alone, in Christ alone" really means, that's obvious.
What a horrible misuse of both Romans 8:9 and 8:14. You posted: IF we are co laborers with the Lord and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us (Romans 8:14) and IF we allow the Holy Spirit to live in us (Romans 8:9)
Romans 8:14 is not teaching any concept of "letting" the Spirit lead us. It is stating a true fact:
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Simple fact, If you are led by the Spirit, you are a son of God.
Your understanding of Romans 8:9, is even worse. Where are you getting this ridiculous notion that this verse teaches.. IF we allow the Holy Spirit to live in us... It is not teaching that one "allows" the Holy Spirit to live in us - it again is stating a few facts:
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Fact - You are not in the flesh (That is to say: The ways of the flesh),
Fact - IF the Spirit of God is dwelling in you. You don't allow the Spirit to come in. God sends His Spirit to dwell in the Believer. This "IF"
is asking: Is the Spirit dwelling in you are not?
Fact - But if you have not the Spirit of Christ.
Fact - Then you are none of His (You don't belong to Christ. You are not one of His sheep).
Please try to remember, the intended listeners, of the letter Paul wrote to the Romans, are believers - NOT unbelievers.
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Er... those that believe in OSAS believe they are still saved even if they live in sin... including the sin of killing themselves.
I understand what God teaches in His Word... the OSAS peoples are in opposition to God's Word so they be on the outside looking in.
Simple fact, the OSAS peoples are NOT being led by the Spirit of God because they deny the whole counsel of God and instead only believe a select few verses that fit their preconceived ideas that they got from augustine, john calvin, and martin luther
Simply put, the OSAS peoples don't follow Jesus... instead they fallow men that they have made in to idols.
You totally missed the part that says "IF so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you"
Those espousing the false doctrines of augustine, john calvin, and martin luther don't have the Holy Spirit living in them! This is obvious since they deny vast portions of God's Word... proving they are not being led by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
I understand what God teaches in His Word... the OSAS peoples are in opposition to God's Word so they be on the outside looking in.
Simple fact, the OSAS peoples are NOT being led by the Spirit of God because they deny the whole counsel of God and instead only believe a select few verses that fit their preconceived ideas that they got from augustine, john calvin, and martin luther
Simply put, the OSAS peoples don't follow Jesus... instead they fallow men that they have made in to idols.
You totally missed the part that says "IF so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you"
Those espousing the false doctrines of augustine, john calvin, and martin luther don't have the Holy Spirit living in them! This is obvious since they deny vast portions of God's Word... proving they are not being led by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
You know Jimmy, I am an adherent of OSAS but I don't follow Calvin, Augustine or Luther. I just read context in scripture. Indeed.. calvinism in it's full 5 point form is actually works based. It has salvation before belief.. and those who do believe WILL do good works. If they aren't doing good works.. then it's 'never saved in the first place' for them. That's works based salvation. I don't know about Luther or Augustine, but I think they too attach works to salvation as definitely going to happen.
Good works are a voluntary response to having been given eternal life. That's what the examples are of what people were doing in the book of James. If the people didn't do those works, they would still have faith from the gift given them. The good works did show the faith they had, so it is clear they were converted.. but it wasn't GUARANTEED or DEFINITE that they would be 'faithful to the end'.
It's like Paul calling the Corinthians carnal. He was addressing believers. Already converted. Yet they were still carnal. It can happen. Tommorow you could just go out and commit a heinous sin.. that doesn't mean you yourself aren't converted. It just means you aren't being faithful to who Has indwelt you with their Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit.. if you did this.. would rebuke, admonish.. may even end your life if you did do some heinous sin.. but remove His salvation? That's conditional on your works.. and makes a mockery of His payment for your sin.
Good works are a voluntary response to having been given eternal life. That's what the examples are of what people were doing in the book of James. If the people didn't do those works, they would still have faith from the gift given them. The good works did show the faith they had, so it is clear they were converted.. but it wasn't GUARANTEED or DEFINITE that they would be 'faithful to the end'.
It's like Paul calling the Corinthians carnal. He was addressing believers. Already converted. Yet they were still carnal. It can happen. Tommorow you could just go out and commit a heinous sin.. that doesn't mean you yourself aren't converted. It just means you aren't being faithful to who Has indwelt you with their Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit.. if you did this.. would rebuke, admonish.. may even end your life if you did do some heinous sin.. but remove His salvation? That's conditional on your works.. and makes a mockery of His payment for your sin.
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Sure you do! That's where OSAS doctrine came from.
The early church in the Book of Acts did not teach it... is started with augustine who was a pagan monk and martin luther and john calvin were big fans of augustine's writings... which is where they got this doctrine from.
They put augustine's writings above God's Word and rether than getting their doctrine from God's Word... they instead got their doctrine from the writings of the heretic augustine!
So whether you realize it or not you have been greatly influenced by these men rather then getting your doctrine directly from God's Word.
Yes, and as such they were no longer in right standing with the Lord which is WHY Paul was correcting them so they would REPENT and quit being carnal minded!
Romans 8:6-8
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
If one does that... they have turn away from being led by the Lord and have now become led by satan... and as such they are no longer in right standing with God.
If you sow to the flesh, you shall of the flesh reap corruption... according to Gal 6:7,8
To say otherwise is mocking God... according to Gal 6:7,8
If the Lord ends someone's life because they did some heinous sin... it is to send them to hell
Those that do heinous sins are not rewarded by being sent to Heaven.
If you sow to the flesh, you shall of the flesh reap corruption... according to Gal 6:7,8
To say otherwise is mocking God... according to Gal 6:7,8
Adolph Hitler read all of martin luther's writings as a young man (where he learned to hate the Jews!) and may have become born again at one point early in his life... his reward was not to be taken to Heaven!
It's a fantasy of the OSAS false teachers that if one does some terrible sin they will be taken to heaven by the Lord... that's another trick of the devil that he uses to prepare someone to go do some terrible crime like a mass shooting, child molestation, rape, stealing, wife beating, etc, etc, etc
Nobody is actually saved until... they have been allowed in to Heaven.
None of us right now are in Heaven, so we have not been saved yet in the literal sense.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
IF… OSAS was true, 2 Corinthians 13:5 would not be in God’s Word!
1 Corinthians 9:27
I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Castaway (G0096 in Strong's) = unapproved, rejected, worthless, reprobate.
This is the same greek word used in Romans 1:28 when the Lord turned those over to a reprobate mind who refused retain God in their knowledge and walk with Him.
This means, Paul believed that if he did not control himself and went back to walking after the flesh HE would be unapproved, rejected, worthless, reprobate!
Obviously the Apostle Paul did not believe in "once saved, always saved" aka "eternal security"
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Matthew 7:16-20
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
1 Corinthians 10:1-11
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
.... all good food for trhought, that the OSAS peoples will deny as being for Christians today since they do not accept the whole counsel of God
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When I've encountered posters like you I can't but wonder why your whole mind is taken up with sin, backsliding, judgement to come etc
Why is your mind not taken up with the beauty of holiness, the obedience of sonship, preaching the gospel, heavenly matters.
I think you are stuck in a bad place yourself and are crying for help.
Why is your mind not taken up with the beauty of holiness, the obedience of sonship, preaching the gospel, heavenly matters.
I think you are stuck in a bad place yourself and are crying for help.
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There is so much nonsense in your post and many incorrect understandings as to what OSAS believers - believe. I don't really know why I am continuing this but I suppose it is in defense of the OSAS Truth.
Those that believe OSAS teachings from the Bible do not believe they can "continually" live in sin. We may commit occasional sin (As do all), but this is because we war with the flesh - because the Spirit dwells in us and we are in Christ. Anyone who would suggest they do not sin - is a liar. 1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
OSAS believers do not believe that Salvation brings about complacency or dead faith. Indeed, it heightens ones desire to do good works - a form of "fruit" bearing because it brings about a greater understanding of Grace and God's Mercy. Having said this - It is a product of Salvation and not a requirement for Salvation. Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Foundational examples of the OSAS belief are found in these Scriptures:
John 6:37 All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:39 And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 17:2 even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that to all whom thou hast given him, he should give eternal life.
Hebrews 13:5b ..for himself hath said, I will in no wise fail thee, neither will I in any wise forsake thee.
2Timothy 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful; for he cannot deny himself.
One might ask: "Why so many OSAS references in John." Probably because John wrote about the Person and Works of Jesus Christ from the view of Him being the God-Man. So recorded remarks, from Jesus Christ, are often from Gods perspective. In the other three Gospels, the writers write about Jesus Christ as the: 1) King of the Jews (Matthew), 2) The perfect servant (Mark), 3) The perfect man (Luke). Therefore, the perspectives of each are from that view.
The Apostle Paul, also gave eternal assurances, such as these:
Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Romans 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (Meaning - "Irrevocable")
The Apostle Peter had this to say, at the very front of his epistle:
1Peter 1:4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Peter 1:5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I suppose, in your understanding, that these are just a "few" unimportant verses of Scripture and that while these might not be liked by you, they are nevertheless TRUE.
It is equally True, that there are verses of Scripture that seem to imply something other than OSAS beliefs. However, through close examination, with a humble desire and soft heart for "THE" Truth, one may have the proper understanding revealed to him. For GOD is not double minded, nor is He confused - any confusion is in the mind of man. By which, you will say that I am confused. Yet, I challenge you... To give these verses another interpretation, than the clear grammatical sense, which promises that our Lord, Jesus Christ will not lose a single person given to Him by the Father. Again, give another interpretation - Please do not "pit" verses against verses, this is NOT proper Hermeneutics, nor is it proper use of Gods Word, nor does it honor God.
Those that believe OSAS teachings from the Bible do not believe they can "continually" live in sin. We may commit occasional sin (As do all), but this is because we war with the flesh - because the Spirit dwells in us and we are in Christ. Anyone who would suggest they do not sin - is a liar. 1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
OSAS believers do not believe that Salvation brings about complacency or dead faith. Indeed, it heightens ones desire to do good works - a form of "fruit" bearing because it brings about a greater understanding of Grace and God's Mercy. Having said this - It is a product of Salvation and not a requirement for Salvation. Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Foundational examples of the OSAS belief are found in these Scriptures:
John 6:37 All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:39 And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 17:2 even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that to all whom thou hast given him, he should give eternal life.
Hebrews 13:5b ..for himself hath said, I will in no wise fail thee, neither will I in any wise forsake thee.
2Timothy 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful; for he cannot deny himself.
One might ask: "Why so many OSAS references in John." Probably because John wrote about the Person and Works of Jesus Christ from the view of Him being the God-Man. So recorded remarks, from Jesus Christ, are often from Gods perspective. In the other three Gospels, the writers write about Jesus Christ as the: 1) King of the Jews (Matthew), 2) The perfect servant (Mark), 3) The perfect man (Luke). Therefore, the perspectives of each are from that view.
The Apostle Paul, also gave eternal assurances, such as these:
Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Romans 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (Meaning - "Irrevocable")
The Apostle Peter had this to say, at the very front of his epistle:
1Peter 1:4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Peter 1:5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
I suppose, in your understanding, that these are just a "few" unimportant verses of Scripture and that while these might not be liked by you, they are nevertheless TRUE.
It is equally True, that there are verses of Scripture that seem to imply something other than OSAS beliefs. However, through close examination, with a humble desire and soft heart for "THE" Truth, one may have the proper understanding revealed to him. For GOD is not double minded, nor is He confused - any confusion is in the mind of man. By which, you will say that I am confused. Yet, I challenge you... To give these verses another interpretation, than the clear grammatical sense, which promises that our Lord, Jesus Christ will not lose a single person given to Him by the Father. Again, give another interpretation - Please do not "pit" verses against verses, this is NOT proper Hermeneutics, nor is it proper use of Gods Word, nor does it honor God.
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Jimmy is here for ONE reason only -- attack Gospel truth daily so that at least a few will have their faith undermined.
Now who do you think is behind Jimmy's attacks? We are not wrestling against flesh and blood.
EPHESIANS 6: THE ENEMIES OF OUR SALVATION AND HOW GOD DEALS WITH THEM
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Now who do you think is behind Jimmy's attacks? We are not wrestling against flesh and blood.
EPHESIANS 6: THE ENEMIES OF OUR SALVATION AND HOW GOD DEALS WITH THEM
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
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So you believe we can all go out and live in sin and still go to Heaven?
You have to admit that you believe this because it's what OSAS peoples believe!
It's why so many OSAS people have their secrets sins because why wouldn't they? If they believe nothing can cause them to not go to Heaven they may as well let their freak flag fly and enjoy the pleasures of the flesh in this world and ... get their sin on!
It's too bad you don't accept the whole counsel of God and literally ignore large portions of God's Word.
Because... it what the majority of those claiming to be Christians are doing.... because they have been deceived and should be warned!
Yes, the Lord's is wonderful and His plan of salvation is great! He is greatly to be praised!
Sadly, there are many false teachers in the world... have you not seen these warnings in God's Word?
His warnings are a major part of His mercy and grace as it instructs us what NOT to do so we are not deceived.
Those that have been deceived by the false teachings of the OSAS peoples have had their understanding darkened, so they can't understand anymore... all the understand is scripture twisting and cherry picking!
Hang in their bud... maybe you'll get it someday!
No, the attack is against false doctrine which has ALREADY undermined the faith of those that have been deceived.
You wouldn't understand...
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Maybe some day you folks will become like this and actually belong to the Lord!
Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
