Quaran

[royalscot]

did the rabbi know jesus.
10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
Acts 15

Huh!! you aren't making any sense. Mohammad could neither read nor write and had the OT read to him by Jewish rabbis.

 

[ChristIsGod]

So, Let's ask those who speak Hebrew !

The word ‘echad, “one,” is used in the Jewish Scriptures in either a compound or absolute sense. In what sense is ‘echad used in the Shema, “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One” (Deuteronomy 6:4)?


Answer: In such verses as Genesis 1:5: “And there was evening and there was morning, one day,” and Genesis 2:24: “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be one flesh,” the term ‘echad, “one,” refers to a compound united one.
However, ‘echad often also means an absolute one. This is illustrated by such verses as 2 Samuel 13:30: “Absolom has slain all the king’s sons, and there is not one of them left”; 2 Samuel 17:12: “And of all the men that are with him we will not leave so much as one”; Exodus 9:7: “There did not die of the cattle of Israel even one”; 2 Samuel 17:22: “There lacked not one of them that was not gone over the Jordan”; Ecclesiastes 4:8: There is one [that is alone], and he has not a second; yea, he has neither son nor brother.”
Clearly, the word “one” used in these verses means an absolute one and is synonymous with the word yachid, “the only one,” “alone.” It is in this sense, with even greater refinement, that ‘echad is used in Deuteronomy 6:4: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.” Here, ‘echad is used as a single, absolute, unqualified one. There is no mention of a triune god.
- See more at: Jews For Judaism | In what sense is ‘echad’ [one] used in the Shema?

Just as not all Muslims agree - not all Jewish scholars agree, but we must look at the context in The Shema.

Elohim is 'plural' and many Jewish scholars as well will teach that - so in context of the Shema - 'echad' is a "compound unity".
Moses prophesied about the Messiah and the Pharisees of that time knew that anyone who would be the Messiah would be "God made flesh" and "come to Jerusalem" and even be called "the son of God", etc - but they were expecting a Messiah that would overthrow the oppression of Rome's occupation and tossed aside the other prophecies, such as Isaiah 53 that speaks of His "suffering servant" that would be killed for their sins - but would later return to destroy His enemies.

When anyone that is against this Messiah that the Christians follow - whether they be Jewish, Muslim or any other religion on earth - they will Always choose the "word definition" that best suit their bias - but that's why we Always need the Entire Context of the Entire Word of GOD = the Scriptures.

 

[crossnote]

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord" ((and this was the message of all prophets sent by Allah from Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon them all ) "There is no God but God" and if Jesus (peace be upon him) was a god or a son of god he would declare that strongly ))

Can God be a man,eat as man,feel hungry ,go to toilet ,is crucified,tortured and be seen and be heard ,cry on the cross and be spit on his face and doesn't have the power to destroy his enemies and pray to his god.What god is that ?

In John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

Saying Jesus is a god or a son of god is the biggest sin which God never forgive and Jesus himself prophesied that people would worship him uselessly and believe in doctrines made by men (Matthew 15:9). "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Jesus (peace be upon him) in this verse warns his followers from being worshippers to him .He ordered his people not to exaggerate in their love to him .

Here are 100 biblical responses to those who claim that Jesus is God

Actually no prophet on earth -even Jesus- said to his people that Jesus is our God. (we believe that there are no true prophets between Muhammad and Jesus )

Prophet said, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."

Here the prophet Muhammad explicitly teaches the Muslims to not over-praise him, and he gets very specific by what he means, he says that we should not over praise him as the Christians do with Jesus. As we all know many Christians worship and revere Jesus, they believe he is God, and that he is the one in whom their salvation lies.

Can a man receive worship from other men and still not be a deceiver as Jesus did? Are you saying Jesus was a deceiver by receiving worship from others?

 

[Undertaker]

Again, what are you trying to prove? The only thing you are telling me is that you have one real God YHWH Elohim and that Allah is a fake and an idol like the rest of them. If you look at the first word in the Bible you have the salvation plan of Yeshua. If you look at Genesis 5 you see the salvation plan of Yeshua etc etc. Ignore it all you want but there is no place for Allah and Mohammed in the Hebrew text.

Muhammad name has been shown earlier in this thread.
Actually Jesus himself called God " Allah". This clip is from "THE Passion of Christ":

[video=youtube;HmdkFZ6CHrQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmdkFZ6CHrQ[/video]

Just as not all Muslims agree - not all Jewish scholars agree, but we must look at the context in The Shema.

Elohim is 'plural' and many Jewish scholars as well will teach that - so in context of the Shema - 'echad' is a "compound unity".
Moses prophesied about the Messiah and the Pharisees of that time knew that anyone who would be the Messiah would be "God made flesh" and "come to Jerusalem" and even be called "the son of God", etc - but they were expecting a Messiah that would overthrow the oppression of Rome's occupation and tossed aside the other prophecies, such as Isaiah 53 that speaks of His "suffering servant" that would be killed for their sins - but would later return to destroy His enemies.

When anyone that is against this Messiah that the Christians follow - whether they be Jewish, Muslim or any other religion on earth - they will Always choose the "word definition" that best suit their bias - but that's why we Always need the Entire Context of the Entire Word of GOD = the Scriptures.

Echad has been dealt with, but what about elohim ?

In Biblical Hebrew, a noun that is plural in form is not necessarily plural in meaning.
For instance, the Hebrew words chayim (chayeem, "life") and panim (paneem, "face", "presence", "countenance") are plural in form, but almost always singular in meaning.
Equally striking is the fact that the same term, elohim, is used of the individual false gods.
Additionally, in Nehemiah 9:18, elohim is used to refer to the single golden calf made by Israel in the wilderness.

Elohim is also used of single human figures. Moses in both Exodus 4:16 and 7:1 and the Messianic king in Psalms 45:6 (verse 7 in the Hebrew Bible) are each referred to as elohim.
Comparative Religion: Trinity & Elohim !

There is one major problem though, it seems that Christian apologists understand Isaiah 53 better than Jesus’ own disciples, and that Christian apologists have managed to see what Jesus’ disciples (and literally everybody else before Christianity) have not within Isaiah 53.
A critical study of Isaiah 53

Can a man receive worship from other men and still not be a deceiver as Jesus did? Are you saying Jesus was a deceiver by receiving worship from others?

This is not so accurate (Read this). Christians should come to terms with the fact that Jesus (peace be upon him) never declared himself to be god since he had no warrant of doing so:

Sahih International
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
​

5:117

I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
​

Al-Ma'idah [5:116-117] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

 

[crossnote]

Muhammad name has been shown earlier in this thread.
Actually Jesus himself called God " Allah". This clip is from "THE Passion of Christ":

[video=youtube;HmdkFZ6CHrQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmdkFZ6CHrQ[/video]



Echad has been dealt with, but what about elohim ?

In Biblical Hebrew, a noun that is plural in form is not necessarily plural in meaning.
For instance, the Hebrew words chayim (chayeem, "life") and panim (paneem, "face", "presence", "countenance") are plural in form, but almost always singular in meaning.
Equally striking is the fact that the same term, elohim, is used of the individual false gods.
Additionally, in Nehemiah 9:18, elohim is used to refer to the single golden calf made by Israel in the wilderness.

Elohim is also used of single human figures. Moses in both Exodus 4:16 and 7:1 and the Messianic king in Psalms 45:6 (verse 7 in the Hebrew Bible) are each referred to as elohim.
Comparative Religion: Trinity & Elohim !

There is one major problem though, it seems that Christian apologists understand Isaiah 53 better than Jesus’ own disciples, and that Christian apologists have managed to see what Jesus’ disciples (and literally everybody else before Christianity) have not within Isaiah 53.
A critical study of Isaiah 53




This is not so accurate (Read this). Christians should come to terms with the fact that Jesus (peace be upon him) never declared himself to be god since he had no warrant of doing so:

Sahih International
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
​

5:117

I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
​

Al-Ma'idah [5:116-117] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

Muslims should come to grips with the fact that their 'jesus'/Issa is different from the Jesus of our Bible. Our Jesus truly died for our sins, was buried and the third day rose bodily from the dead.
Islam's denial of these facts establishes another jesus on their part...a blasphemous one at that.

 

[Delivery]

Do you know if Muhammad is mentioned in our bible?

No. Mohammad lived about 600 A.D. The last book of the bible was written in about 90 A.D.

 

[damombomb]

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord" ((and this was the message of all prophets sent by Allah from Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon them all ) "There is no God but God" and if Jesus (peace be upon him) was a god or a son of god he would declare that strongly ))

Can God be a man,eat as man,feel hungry ,go to toilet ,is crucified,tortured and be seen and be heard ,cry on the cross and be spit on his face and doesn't have the power to destroy his enemies and pray to his god.What god is that ?

In John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

Saying Jesus is a god or a son of god is the biggest sin which God never forgive and Jesus himself prophesied that people would worship him uselessly and believe in doctrines made by men (Matthew 15:9). "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Jesus (peace be upon him) in this verse warns his followers from being worshippers to him .He ordered his people not to exaggerate in their love to him .

Here are 100 biblical responses to those who claim that Jesus is God

Actually no prophet on earth -even Jesus- said to his people that Jesus is our God. (we believe that there are no true prophets between Muhammad and Jesus )

Prophet said, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."

Here the prophet Muhammad explicitly teaches the Muslims to not over-praise him, and he gets very specific by what he means, he says that we should not over praise him as the Christians do with Jesus. As we all know many Christians worship and revere Jesus, they believe he is God, and that he is the one in whom their salvation lies.

He is whom our salvation lies. The only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ the son of the living God.
God created man from the dust. His word will never fade away. His word became flesh and dwelt among us.
There is salvation in no other than the Lord Jesus Christ. Every knee shall bow, every tounge confess that Jesus
Christ is Lord. His blood was shed for you and I and all who believe on him. He is coming back.
If you want peace and joy without a bunch of works, pray to God to show you the truth faith of him.


Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[damombomb]

For Undertaker

The new covenant
…27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you; 28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. 29"But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."…
Hebrew 12:4-5
He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.

Through the blood of Jesus we can now enter into the holy of holies.

…15But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16but whenever a person turns to the Lord,(believe on Jesus Christ) the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.…
2Corinthians2:16

There is a new covenant. Jesus gave his life for forgiveness of sin's.

 

[MsSpratt]

Christ denier?

 

[crossnote]

Muhammad name has been shown earlier in this thread.
Actually Jesus himself called God " Allah". This clip is from "THE Passion of Christ":

[video=youtube;HmdkFZ6CHrQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmdkFZ6CHrQ[/video]



Echad has been dealt with, but what about elohim ?

In Biblical Hebrew, a noun that is plural in form is not necessarily plural in meaning.
For instance, the Hebrew words chayim (chayeem, "life") and panim (paneem, "face", "presence", "countenance") are plural in form, but almost always singular in meaning.
Equally striking is the fact that the same term, elohim, is used of the individual false gods.
Additionally, in Nehemiah 9:18, elohim is used to refer to the single golden calf made by Israel in the wilderness.

Elohim is also used of single human figures. Moses in both Exodus 4:16 and 7:1 and the Messianic king in Psalms 45:6 (verse 7 in the Hebrew Bible) are each referred to as elohim.
Comparative Religion: Trinity & Elohim !

There is one major problem though, it seems that Christian apologists understand Isaiah 53 better than Jesus’ own disciples, and that Christian apologists have managed to see what Jesus’ disciples (and literally everybody else before Christianity) have not within Isaiah 53.
A critical study of Isaiah 53




This is not so accurate (Read this). Christians should come to terms with the fact that Jesus (peace be upon him) never declared himself to be god since he had no warrant of doing so:

Sahih International
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
​

5:117

I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
​

Al-Ma'idah [5:116-117] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

under CC rule#1...

Also, please don't post any inappropriate links in your chat profile or in the forums, or in the chat rooms (e.g., links to anti-Christian sites, sites with inappropriate content,[] B sites promoting other religions,[/B] cults, or doctrines contrary to the Bible).

 

[Straightshot]

Response to the OP


The Koran is a total corruption of the Bible .... a device inspired by Satan and conveyed to Mohammed the false prophet

Study thy self approved of the holy scriptures and you will know

 

[Trailblazer]

He was Muhammad and is Muhammad. Just accept it as such.[/QUOTE]

My favorite testimonial conversion! Muslim to Christianity.

There was a very well know terrorist that got in a very bad traffic accident in Northern Baghdad.
He was thrown out of his car and dieing out on the street. He started yelling! Allah! Allah! Help me Allah.
He then heard a voice saying to him. I do not know of this Allah that you mention. I am Jesus, Come to me and I will save you.

The terrorist then said. If you are Jesus. Go to my brother and tell him who you are. If I hear back from my brother. then I will believe. A short time later the terrorist gets a call from his brother. The brother speaks of a vision that he just had.
A vision that Jesus just came to him. They are now both believers in the Christ Jesus.

 

[Straightshot]

I would suggest that you research Walid Shoebat the Muslim terrorist who is now a Christian if you have not

This man is on the Internet

 

[Undertaker]

I would suggest that you research Walid Shoebat the Muslim terrorist who is now a Christian if you have not

This man is on the Internet

This one ?
http://www.walid-shoebat.blogspot.com/

 

[Gandalf]

Muhammad name has been shown earlier in this thread.
Actually Jesus himself called God " Allah". This clip is from "THE Passion of Christ"

So you are expecting me to take the Passion of the Christ as the word of God LOL you sir don’t have an argument.

Please answer my question, why are there so many differences between the Quran and the original Hebrew text? You are avoiding the topic because you know the answer, because the Quran is not the word of YHWH Elohim but of your puny idol.

 

[Trailblazer]

I would suggest that you research Walid Shoebat the Muslim terrorist who is now a Christian if you have not

This man is on the Internet

I took your suggestion.I researched a couple of minutes of it anyway.

Dudes a scam artist. Taking money with claims that he is fighting terrorist? Because he knows all about them? Tax dollars wasted on this. ARGH! lol
I did not see anything of how Jesus came into his life.

There is no comparison to that con artist, and what gets aired on the Christian Satellite Network. "Christian radio"
In six years of listening to CSN. Only two wild supernatural testimonials that Ive heard.

The first one in my post #72. The 2nd one was a Mission trip going into a jungle with Meds for helping people. Keeping it short! In a village, A robber was planning on following the missionary into the jungle that night and killing him while he was sleeping. Then taking the Meds.

The robber had seen 25 guards surrounding the missionary. Outnumbered. the killing did not happen. They both cross paths a couple of years later. The robber ask the missionary who all of them guards were that were with him a couple of years ago. The missionary assured him that he was alone that night.

Turns out. The Church where the missionary attends. Twenty five Church members were praying for him to be safe on that trip. Twenty five guards protecting him. coincidence?

CSN Radio was not offering to sell any DVD's or Cd's on the personal testimonials of the terrorist or the missionary.
I do not think there were any available.
I believe that God still does some spectacular things at times. So I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt with what they share.
For it is for the Glory of God that I believe them. AMEN!

I will now let Undertaker get back to sending us truckloads of his teachings in attempt to convince us that it is not Jesus working in our Christians hearts.

 

[Markum1972]

Undertaker, it is very easy to copy and paste " מחמד " into your own Search engine such as google, etc..

Many of the posts on this thread need much more authenticating / research from strictly/truly Biblical Research Sources.

Many are bordering on blasphemy.

Very interesting and thanks for the share. I would have figured it was in there somewhere since the scriptures are thorough, but seeing it certainly brings things to light.

I am thinking that this is why there was such a fuss over the 11th Imam. The Jews were trying to find his son to kill him before he took his place as the Mahdi. So it had to be somewhere in the scriptures for them to know about him, right?

 

[Markum1972]

Very interesting and thanks for the share. I would have figured it was in there somewhere since the scriptures are thorough, but seeing it certainly brings things to light.

I am thinking that this is why there was such a fuss over the 11th Imam. The Jews were trying to find his son to kill him before he took his place as the Mahdi. So it had to be somewhere in the scriptures for them to know about him, right?

I replied too soon. lol
I see the issue with this now. No need to address it.

 

[Markum1972]

I think my son, who has read up on a lot of this type of thing, said that Mohammad put a lot of different things together from when he traveled. Sounds like it's not such a bad idea to get a quaran and read it so you know what they believe. I personally would be concerned about getting too confused if I did that.

Agreed. Had I read the Quran many years ago before establishing some root in the word of God and studying the scriptures deeply, I could have become VERY confused and maybe even deceived.

The Quran is a device by which to deceive people and may be one of the most deceptive devices by which to do so. To anyone that does not yet have root in them self, I would not recommend reading it. Grow in the Lord and IF the Holy Spirit leads you to study it, then do so.

The Quran even states to lie for the sake of Allah.

Undertaker,
I know of your ways and of your deceits, for the God of Abraham and Isaac is a revealer of all secrets. He says to you to turn from your ways and he will save you from your own terrors. Call upon his name and ask that you be given the gift of the Holy Spirit, who when he is come to you shall teach you all things, comfort you, and remind you of what the Lord, your God, has said.
~Righteous Kafir; servant of the Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Bowman]

Muhammad name has been shown earlier in this thread.
Actually Jesus himself called God " Allah". This clip is from "THE Passion of Christ":

[video=youtube;HmdkFZ6CHrQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmdkFZ6CHrQ[/video]

Let the lexicons speak!


اللَّهُ = “allah”

“allah” definition:

Written with the disjunctive alif, meaning God, i.e. the only true god, according to the most correct of the opinions respecting it. It is a proper name to the Being who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all of the attributes of perfection; a proper name denoting the true god (TA), comprising all the excellent divine names; a unity comprising all of the essences of existing things; the “al” being inseparable from it; not derived.

It comes from the root “ilaha”, which means he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course.An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such.It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.




References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 82 - 83
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 28 - 29


The implications…

• Observe the revealing definition for “allah”, that is given by Lane...“i.e. the only true god”
• Lane is referencing a very specific example in his definition by his illustrated example (i.e.)
• It is abundantly clear that he is referencing a “god” (lower case) to represent the “allah” of the Koran
• To re-enforce the fact that the “allah” of the Koran is no more than a “god”, and to erase any notion of error, Lane repeats his very same remarks a few lines farther down in his lexical definition for “allah”, by referencing a separate entry – this time from the legendary “Ta’j el-‘Aroos” (TA)
• (TA; ) “a proper name denoting the true god, comprising all the excellent divine names; a unity comprising all the essence of existing things”
• Further, “allah” is derived from the root “ilaha”, which means “he was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course”
• This would hardly seem a logical definition for true deity
• “ilaha” also means “an object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him who takes it as such”…which signifies idolatry as mentioned in Revelation
• “ilaha” also signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon

The verdict is in...

The "allah" of the Koran, the god that Muslims worship, is none other than the Devil himself.

Time to take action...and stop the madness...