The BAC must endure in the faith to the end of life to be saved

[AtonedFor]

Mitspa expressed his desire to see this list ...

John states clearly that ...
there must be continuing belief/faith for there to be continuing salvation/eternal life:
John 3:15-16 • that whoever believes [present tense - continues to believe] in him
may have [present tense - may continue to have] eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son,
that whoever believes [present tense - continues to believe] in him
should not perish but have [present tense - continue to have] eternal life.

Col 1:22-23 • He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy,
and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — if indeed you continue in the faith,
grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel

1 Cor 15:1-2 • Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you,
which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved,
if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.

Heb 2:1-4 • Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard,
lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast,
and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward,
how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation

Heb 6:11-12 • And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full
assurance of hope until the end, that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those
who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Heb 10:36-39 • For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God,
you may receive the promise: “For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come
and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. … lots of wishful thinking here!

1 Tim 4:16 • Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them,
for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

Jude 1:20-21 • But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Phil 2:12-16 • … work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
… that you may (not will) become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault
… holding fast the word of life, so that I may (not will) rejoice in the day of Christ
that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

1 Pet 1:5-9 • … the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that
perishes, though it is tested by fire, may (not will) be found to praise, honor, and glory at
the revelation of Jesus Christ … receiving the end of your faith — the salvation of your souls.

1 Tim 6:9-14 • But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into
many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition (i.e. hell).
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith
in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But you, O man of
God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called …
I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus … that you
keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing

Rev 2:10 • Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison,
that you may (will) be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.
Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.

James 1:12 • Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

Heb 3:6,14 • Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are,
if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
… For we have become partakers of Christ,
if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

2 Tim 2:12 • If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

Because of all of the above verses

1) Christians see the following passage as having a double-meaning:
Matt 10:22 • But he who endures to the end (of his life) will be saved.
(Also see Mark 13:13, Matt 24:13)

2) Eternal life is actually granted (or denied) some time after one dies!

 

[Hizikyah]

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

 

[AtonedFor]

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

You seem to assume that being "in the faith" demands
good works, righteousness, good intentions, etc.

However, some here would argue that God's grace and belief-faith-trust
(and not even until the end of their lives)
is all that is required to make heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have not seen so much self righteousness in all my life.

Oh Wait, Yes I have, they were called pharisees.

When are you both going to realize the law condemns you, and the only way to be saved from the law is the price of redemption, which is the blood of Christ.

Many people have come to church, Heard the word of faith. Tried to live that word of faith, and fallen away from that word of faith, because the faith they learned was in word only, and not in reality (they never trusted God to begin with)

it is no wonder paul and James both had to warn us about making sure the word we so claimed to have faith in is real. and not dead.

of course, those of us who already have true faith would not have to worry about such things, We KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. and it is based on this FACT we CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IN HIS NAME.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

It is those who do not KNOW they have eternal life. who waver in faith, Who turn to legalism, so they feel better about themselves. and eventualy risk falling away into a true legalistic works based gospel. or giving up alltogether, because they fail to understand grace, and realize how futile their attempt is to try to live up to Gods law. Who does not understand the true meaning of faith and grace.. and who spend their whole lives trying to make sure that they will make it to heaven, instead of trying to grow in faith and love of god. and sharing that love with others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You seem to assume that being "in the faith" demands
good works, righteousness, good intentions, etc.

However, some here would argue that God's grace and belief-faith-trust
(and not even until the end of their lives)
is all that is required to make heaven.

so you mean one can trust Christ completely in his finished work on the cross, His law which condemns them, and his inability to make up for his sins is a bad thing?

wow..

 

[Hizikyah]

You seem to assume that being "in the faith" demands
good works, righteousness, good intentions, etc.

However, some here would argue that God's grace and belief-faith-trust
(and not even until the end of their lives)
is all that is required to make heaven.

Certainly one who has the Messiah in them walks according to what is right.

Fruits of true faith.

 

[AtonedFor]

Certainly one who has the Messiah in them walks according to what is right.
Fruits of true faith.

Surely they duz, unless they are in rebellion, or ...
they have been brainwashed with OSAS, grace-only, and etc.!

I wuz just sayin' that many here do not agree with us!

These folks just refuse to believe in many dozens of Scripture verses!

And they refuse to listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Some are not saved.

Some really belong to Satan.

Some of these sit at the door of every Christian forum to attack
those whom the Lord has anointed and sent with His precious truths.

 

[Hizikyah]

Surely they duz, unless they are in rebellion,
or have been brainwashed with OSAS, grace-only, and etc.!

I wuz just sayin' that many here do not agree with us!

I asked a freiend if he would join our group for study one day, and his reply was, "I don't need to read the bible, I'm already saved."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Surely they duz, unless they are in rebellion,
or have been brainwashed with OSAS, grace-only, and etc.!

I wuz just sayin' that many here do not agree with us!

why would we want to be like a pharisee? and preach legalism?

of course we do not agree with you.. You preach a true believer will stay in the vine and walk according to the spirit.. then say they can cut themsleves off the vine, and np longer be saved, as if they would ever WANT to do this.. really??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I asked a freiend if he would join our group for study one day, and his reply was, "I don't need to read the bible, I'm already saved."

and you believed him when he said he was saved?

 

[AtonedFor]

I asked a friend if he would join our group for study one day,
and his reply was, "I don't need to read the bible, I'm already saved."

Our churches today are absolutely chuck-full of these types of "believers".
And the blood of these poor sheep will be on the hands of their pastors.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Our churches today are absolutely chuck-full of these types of "believers".
And the blood of these poor sheep will be on the hands of their pastors.

believers? You think they actually believe in God and have faith in him?

wow.. thats a prety amazing thing. I can have faith in God, yet reject everything he says..

I mean think about it, the term faith means nothing at all.

 

[notuptome]

Our churches today are absolutely chuck-full of these types of "believers".
And the blood of these poor sheep will be on the hands of their pastors.

Correction the church is "chock full" of people who pose as Christians. Many of them pose as teachers but they do not teach sound doctrine.

By grace are we saved. Who is the author of this grace? We receive this grace by faith. Who is the author of this faith?

It appears that you underestimate God and overestimate yourself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[sealchan]

It is an interesting dichotomy that we can be saved and that we can loose our way. Can anyone of us know with certainty aside from God whether we are finally saved? We have the Word to guide us but it may guide us without providing a perfect saved-o-meter that lets us know if we have been "made" so to speak or are in need of continually keeping our "membership" up-to-date. And when can a humble believer know if their own confidence is not delusion? I suspect that the best of us never hope to reach such certainty. That seems like a ripe target for Satan and an excuse to discontinue a daily effort.

I think that my conscience is a good guide...if I am keeping myself immersed in the scriptures and I am being honest with myself about my own happiness and the impact that I have on others, I can at least tell a story before any who would judge me. But I cannot abandon my faith and my humility and otherwise fail to continue to ask for His assistance to help me through my journey in life.

I believe that from the point of view of "Eternity" we cannot form a measure. Eternity is beyond time and beyond measure. It may be that through some specific act of faith or self-sacrifice we earn ourselves a place in the eternal, but we can never really know this until perhaps we are finally judged. We are best suited to keep our souls I think if we look to signs of our improvement but not to objective final measures of confidence. And what a relief that we should not spend too much time measuring ourselves and others in this way. It is work enough to focus on taking our next step in life in line with God's plan and hoping that we are seeing the door that is open.


Still I think we can share experiences in our life where we know, with relative (not absolute) certainty, that we have felt His grace and have come to a new plateau of spiritual riches. But there is no hierarchy of achievement in the end. Our strengths are our weakness and our weaknesses our strength.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we can not earn our salvation.Which I am sure everyone here will agree..

If we can not earn it, how can we un-earn it (for that would mean we must earn it)

Do people even think?

 

[Angela53510]

I can't figure out what "BAC" means, but I will deal with this unbilbical myth that we can lose our salvation, because we are so evil. First, a truly evil person is not saved in the first place.

Second, the following passage is in the perfect past tense. That means it has been completed in the past.

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wehave peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Romans 5:1

Oh right that is the passage that saved Martin Luther and started the Protestant Reformation! Then there is the following verse!

"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10

NOT OF YOURSELF!!! And why, so that no one may boast!

"9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God'sseed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:9-10

John is clear that when we are born of God (Not of our own works) that we do obey the commands of God. But the obedience is because God's seed, or the Holy Spirit is within us. He leads and guides us, AFTER we are saved.

As for those that appear to backslide, I think John has it right. They never were saved in the first place.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.[d]21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.25 And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life." 1 John 2:19-25

 

[Jason0047]

I can't figure out what "BAC" means, but I will deal with this unbilbical myth that we can lose our salvation, because we are so evil. First, a truly evil person is not saved in the first place.

Second, the following passage is in the perfect past tense. That means it has been completed in the past.

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wehave peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Romans 5:1

Oh right that is the passage that saved Martin Luther and started the Protestant Reformation! Then there is the following verse!

"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10

NOT OF YOURSELF!!! And why, so that no one may boast!

"9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God'sseed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:9-10

John is clear that when we are born of God (Not of our own works) that we do obey the commands of God. But the obedience is because God's seed, or the Holy Spirit is within us. He leads and guides us, AFTER we are saved.

As for those that appear to backslide, I think John has it right. They never were saved in the first place.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.[d]21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.25 And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life." 1 John 2:19-25

I remember debating in a loving way with one of my close Christian friends back in Ohio at work. I remember him bringing up 1 John 2:19 to me. If you were to talk to me back then, I would have said, there are two different groups of people. One group being those who never knew him and those who have fallen away. However, the more I study God's Word, I have come to realize that while every believer does have free will to choose this day in whom they want to serve, I also realize that those who endured in their faith were those who had a deep relationship with Jesus Christ and His Word. They had an understanding of God's Word. They have a love for God and all other people. Not on the basis of what they have done, but on the basis of what Christ has done for us. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. We can never earn our salvation. Yes, we must not ignore God's Commands that He has for us under the New Testament. But if we do fail to be perfect, we have God's grace to work with us and to help us so as to endure and do all that the Lord wants us to do. We do not do works so as to be saved, but so as to abide with Christ and His plan for our lives (So as to glorify Him).

In other words, I have come to realize that if a person has truly made a deep connection with Jesus Christ and His Word (i.e. they have root as mentioned in the Parable of the Sower), then they are not going to fall away. They are the Elect. They are God's chosen. Those who fall away only have a spurious faith in Christ. They have not been truly broken before Him with Jesus being their Master in all they do.

 

[Jason0047]

To put it to you another way, about a year ago, I would have agreed with this thread's title. But it is misleading, though. It is not you who keeps you in God or Christ. The Scriptures say that God can keep us from stumbling (If that is our desire). There is not going to be any tragedy of going to Hell against your free will choice or failing to miss out on Heaven if you truly want to be with Christ. Those who are not with Christ in Heaven are those who choose not to have a deep relationship with Jesus Christ. For folks who miss out on the Kingdom are those who have chosen to have a counterfeit faith (Where they do not really know Him) or they are those who only have spurious faith (with no real depth or root in Christ and His Word) that does not last.

 

[Jason0047]

I can't figure out what "BAC" means,

Well, I ran into "Atonedfor" at TOL (TheologyOnline) under the username "Redeemed-777." At first, I was in agreement with his stand on OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) because I do not believe a believer can sin habitually and still be saved. Now, I am not condoing a sin and still be saved doctrine, but I have come to realize (thru further study on God's Word) that those who do evil really do not know God and or those who fall away from the faith only had a surface acceptance of Christ and or a spurious faith. They were not God's Elect who are not capable of falling away. But to answer the meaning of this word "BAC", it either means "Born Again Christian" or "Blood Atoned Christian." Personally, I do not like the use of this word BAC because it sounds too impersonal and disrespectful to me. Born again Christians are my close brothers and sisters. We all share a close common bond that I love and respect.

In other words, I don't think of my fellow brethren as BAC's. I think of them as real human beings that I love. I also do not believe that a believer who has a deep relationship with Christ can fall away. Only a person who has a spurious or loose faith (Who is tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine) can fall away.

 

[dcontroversal]

I can't figure out what "BAC" means, but I will deal with this unbilbical myth that we can lose our salvation, because we are so evil. First, a truly evil person is not saved in the first place.

Second, the following passage is in the perfect past tense. That means it has been completed in the past.

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wehave peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Romans 5:1

Oh right that is the passage that saved Martin Luther and started the Protestant Reformation! Then there is the following verse!

"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10

NOT OF YOURSELF!!! And why, so that no one may boast!

"9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God'sseed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:9-10

John is clear that when we are born of God (Not of our own works) that we do obey the commands of God. But the obedience is because God's seed, or the Holy Spirit is within us. He leads and guides us, AFTER we are saved.

As for those that appear to backslide, I think John has it right. They never were saved in the first place.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.[d]21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.25 And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life." 1 John 2:19-25

Amen and don't forget the verb tense of John 3:16 (is having everlasting life)

I was saved and had everlasting life when I believed
I am saved and having everlasting life right now because of that belief in the past
I am continuing to be saved and having everlasting life into the future

A present continuing result from a past COMPLETED ACTION!