On-Again/Off-Again in my relationship with God, why is this happening?

[Hepzibah]

Hello Jason

The answer comes at the end of Romans 7 when he says 'Thanks be to God' who had delivered him from the position he was in, whenceforth he was enabled to walk in the Spirit into chapter 8 and be free from sin. Anyone who sins is sold under sin, and Paul at that point was like many believers who desire to be free from sin like the OP but cannot find it in themselves to walk in holiness constantly. The confusion lies between our different prospectives because of how sin is being interpreted. When I say no sin I mean a pure heart where no bad thought comes into the mind. I think your understanding is that a man can have the bad thought but not act on it. Yours is a partial fix.

I have pointed out that the man in the video you posted was to me obviously not walking in the Spirit because of his physical condition ie overweight and obviously unhealthy which you seemed to be accepting as a sinless life.

 

[Jason0047]

the 'lord'??????--------->... its LORD.... Respect goes along ways... btw .. have you armed yourself as you 'QUOTE' or did you just quote that to make it appear as though you are crucified with Him, I see alot of people say that, but they are FAR FROM CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, in reality when they are discerned and the veil is pulled away.. they are ENEMIES OF THE Cross of Christ, because SALVATION, the emphasis, is on them... and their power, not about God and What He can do...
the believe they were Created and Saved, because God NEEDS THEM.. He cant get it done without their carnal help........ I see alot of that on this Board... 'we're here because God needed us '... No He didnt... and He doesnt You were Created because He is GOOD, not because 'God' needed man to help Him and Hold Him up'... <------ this is spiritual pride.. to highest!

No true believer thinks it is anything they do that saves themselves. Once a person repents of their sin and accepts Jesus as their Savior, the Lord imputes His righteousness to them. But the believer then continues in the Lord's righteousness by allowing Him to do the good work thru them.

Spiritual pride is in one thinking they can sin and still be saved.

 

[Jason0047]

Hello Jason

The answer comes at the end of Romans 7 when he says 'Thanks be to God' who had delivered him from the position he was in, whenceforth he was enabled to walk in the Spirit into chapter 8 and be free from sin. Anyone who sins is sold under sin, and Paul at that point was like many believers who desire to be free from sin like the OP but cannot find it in themselves to walk in holiness constantly. The confusion lies between our different prospectives because of how sin is being interpreted. When I say no sin I mean a pure heart where no bad thought comes into the mind. I think your understanding is that a man can have the bad thought but not act on it. Yours is a partial fix.

I have pointed out that the man in the video you posted was to me obviously not walking in the Spirit because of his physical condition ie overweight and obviously unhealthy which you seemed to be accepting as a sinless life.

This is the standard tactic. Let's attack the person rather than the doctrine. Truth is not determined by a man but by the Word of God. He teaches the Word. Besides, Jesus said judge not by ones outward appearance but judge righteously. I know what is like to be super fat in the past. He is not a glutton for having a stomach. There are some people who can exercise and eat right and still be overweight. So you are judging in a wrong way.

As for Romans 7: Do you agree that Paul was talking as a pre-Christian or no? Not sure where you are coming from.

 

[Hepzibah]

Hi Jason

There is nothing wrong with looking to see if a person is practising what they preach and this man is not. That is righteous judgement. If a person says they do not sin and is standing in front of you with a porn mag in his hands then you know he is a fake. To ignore the evidence is loonacy. No man who eats modestly and takes full care of his body will remain overweight. That man does not take care of his body or at least desire not to discredit his teaching whilst he is still not a good example of a sinless man. In America so many are overweight that to be so looks normal.

Paul is speaking as a believer who has come to a crisis and has had his sin exposed by the HS. He desires to be holy like the OP but cannot do it, there remains something stopping him and fighting against the Spirit's convictions. We can know this when he says that he delights in the law in his inward man which is his spirit by other passages.

It is not the normal life for a believer but a stage one goes through to reach the real holy state of entire sanctification and this does not occur for a man when he first comes to Christ.

 

[gb9]

the word of God. not just certain verses. the whole thing.

 

[Hepzibah]

Sorry caught out again by the fast editing limit. I mean that no man who is taking care of his body will remain overweight. The problem is that few know what a healthy diet really is. One must avoid frankenfood. The man should not be presenting himself as a preacher of holiness unless he looks the part. It gives the teaching a bad name.

 

[Jason0047]

Hi Jason

There is nothing wrong with looking to see if a person is practising what they preach and this man is not. That is righteous judgement. If a person says they do not sin and is standing in front of you with a porn mag in his hands then you know he is a fake. To ignore the evidence is loonacy. No man who eats modestly and takes full care of his body will remain overweight. That man does not take care of his body or at least desire not to discredit his teaching whilst he is still not a good example of a sinless man. In America so many are overweight that to be so looks normal.

Paul is speaking as a believer who has come to a crisis and has had his sin exposed by the HS. He desires to be holy like the OP but cannot do it, there remains something stopping him and fighting against the Spirit's convictions. We can know this when he says that he delights in the law in his inward man which is his spirit by other passages.

It is not the normal life for a believer but a stage one goes through to reach the real holy state of entire sanctification and this does not occur for a man when he first comes to Christ.

I disagree that he is overweight where it be as if it was the sin of gluttony. But is that your point? Can no one be saved if they have some body fat? See, the person who thinks they can sin and still be saved can't borrow morals so as to suit their purpose. That would be hypocritical in doing so. One is for God's righteousness or they are not for God's righteousness. But like I said. Your focus is not in addressing the verses but it is in attacking the person. The doctrine does not change regardless of what kind of life he lives. The Catholic church teaches that the Trinity is true. Does that mean it is false? No. Truth is not determined by people but by the Word of God. So discuss the verses. Otherwise I will assume you do not know how to wield your sword, dear lady.

 

[Jason0047]

Sorry caught out again by the fast editing limit. I mean that no man who is taking care of his body will remain overweight. The problem is that few know what a healthy diet really is. One must avoid frankenfood. The man should not be presenting himself as a preacher of holiness unless he looks the part. It gives the teaching a bad name.

He didn't write those verses in the Bible. Discuss the verses. That is where truth is coming from. For what you are doing is sort of like sland of hand magic trick so as to distract us in not seeing the big pink elephant that is within the room.

 

[Jason0047]

the word of God. not just certain verses. the whole thing.

You are more than welcome to share. But are you doing that?

 

[Hepzibah]

Jason, if a man is preaching perfection, he must be judged by his standard regardless of which verses he is using and he falls at the first hurdle by preaching in a body that is not governed by the Holy Spirit and therefore well taken care of and not showing the sin of laziness as seen in most preachers or gluttony seen in too many. If they are not preaching perfection then they are not being hypocritical.

I see nothing wrong in a man preaching holiness if he admits that he is not there yet. I am not disputing the doctrine and most of what he says l agree with but he omits how to get there and for obvious reasons - he has not got there with the evidence staring us in the face.

He says that all we have to do is make the effort. Wrong it does not work like that.

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, if a man is preaching perfection, he must be judged by his standard regardless of which verses he is using and he falls at the first hurdle by preaching in a body that is not governed by the Holy Spirit and therefore well taken care of and not showing the sin of laziness as seen in most preachers or gluttony seen in too many. If they are not preaching perfection then they are not being hypocritical.

I see nothing wrong in a man preaching holiness if he admits that he is not there yet. I am not disputing the doctrine and most of what he says l agree with but he omits how to get there and for obvious reasons - he has not got there with the evidence staring us in the face.

He says that all we have to do is make the effort. Wrong it does not work like that.

Again, you are judging falsely. Also, the Trinity is false because the Catholic church believes in it? Sorry, truth is not determined by a person but by the Word of God. Again, I will ask you to discuss the verses I brought up. If you cannot discuss the verses I brought up, then I am going to assume you do not know how to actually explain them.

 

[Hepzibah]

Which verses? I believe that a man cannot be a sinner and saved but you want me to believe that your video shows a man who is not a sinner. Doctrine must match reality.

 

[Jason0047]

Which verses? I believe that a man cannot be a sinner and saved but you want me to believe that your video shows a man who is not a sinner. Doctrine must match reality.

I've already referenced many already in my previous posts. But here is quick list (for starters) that deal with ceasing from sin and how sin leads to spiritual death.

1 Peter 4:1.
2 Peter 2:1, 14.
Galatians 5:24.
Romans 6:1.
Romans 6:22.
Hebrews 12:14.
Hebrews 10:26.
Matthew 5:48.
John 8:34.
1 John 3:8.
1 John 1:6-7
1 John 1:9
1 John 2:1
1 John 2:3-6.
1 John 3:10.
1 John 3:15.
John 3:19-21.

 

[Hepzibah]

Jason what is your point? A man must be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect and he who sins is of the devil. It is our definition of sin that is in question . You do not see the sins of laziness and gluttony in the preacher or at least see that he should wait till he actually looks holy before he is preaching it. My definition of sin is set out in the sermon on the mount. If a man thinks evil then he is eviltherefore no lustful thoughts as they are the same as adultery. Is this how you understand sin?

 

[Skinski7]

I don't understand what causes me to withdraw from God periodically.
When I say withdraw, I don't just mean that I begin to doubt his existence. I mean that I stop praying, stop feeling conviction for sin, cease contact with christian connections, and cease reading the bible. The strange part is, is that I've never during these periods doubted God's existence or soverignty. So when I do begin to feel a sense of conviction again, I pray, I come back to God and I feel terrible for what I've done, for essentially abusing God's grace.

You know, I know God is our father and he loves us more than we can comprehend, but I also know that God won't be mocked. He is sovereign.I'm almost resigned to the fear that I will someday die while in one of these "off" times of my life. I don't want to keep doing this, and I ask God to please give me the grace to stay faithful.

Yet it happens...

I know that it is sin that separates us from God, but I can't understand what sin it is that's causing this sense of separation. I am not saying that I expect to never sin. I'm not saying that at all. I know the blood of Christ continually washes us from sin, and that he is faithful. So it's not like this post is about me lying, feeling some guilt, and then apologizing. But there's a difference between unintentional sin and continued, outright disobedience, right--- am I making any sense here? (Someone save me from rambling!)

I know God will never forsake us, but I also know that we can, by our own will, separate ourselves from God by sinning and rejecting Christ. However, I don't desire separation from God. I love Him, (even though I'm terrible at showing it)-- I don't want to upset Him, and hell scares the crap out of me, but I don't want to be separated from God forever when I die.
I also believe that part of what allows us to remain faithful is the grace of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, it's only by God's grace that I'm able to desire to come to Him at all. How then can I fall so far away when I don't desire to and God does not forsake us?

I'm not trying to insinuate that God is a liar, of course, I'm just not sure what to do...

It sounds to me like you never truly repented.

Genuine repentance will result in a total transformation as well as the power of God being manifest in you. Don't buy into the platitudes of religion with all its catch phrases established upon twisting out of context Bible verses.

There is no such thing as "on again, off again" Christianity. That scenario is the sin/repent cycle wrought by "worldly sorrow" and it only works a temporary motivation through an emotional effect.

Don't be deceived. If Satan can keep you there then you will never find genuine reconciliation with God. You'll just be a slave to a false Christianity that masquerades as the real thing.

Godly sorrow works a repentance not to be repented of. Godly sorrow works a repentance whereby the root of iniquity in your heart is actually destroyed. As a result of this purging of iniquity God will move in and establish Himself and empower you to walk in victory.

Chase the real deal, not ear tickling fluff.

[video=youtube;2I-pC56IPaA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I-pC56IPaA[/video]

 

[Skinski7]

O wretched man that I am, who will deliver me

You are in Romans 7 but please ignore those who say that the chapter is about the unsaved man. It is not, it is a man who has come under conviction by the Holy Spirit that you have a need to be delivered from the law of sin and death because you have been trying to walk by the flesh.

Alan Balou on the videos does not have the answer. He is himself not under the control of the Holy Spirit.

How do I know? - Just look at HIM rather than what he is saying. He is preaching legalism anyway. But take a look and see whether he is eating according to his body needs and is therefore slim and fit? Or is overweight and looking like he should lose some weight? Yes he is a slave to his gut. So he cannot help you.

What you need is to pray that you will be delievered by seeing what Christ did on the cross in killing your old nature and be willing to submit yourself entirely to Him.

This sort of rhetoric is dangerous.

This sort of rhetoric is the "pray and wait on God to change you" whilst one still engages in evil.

This notion that one can be carnal, sold under sin and a Christian is nonsense. A saved pornography addict? Give me a break.

Salvation implies being saved from something and the Bible is very clear that salvation is from sin. We are not saved in sin.

God doesn't save us and leave us in prison. Israel was not delivered from Egypt and left in Egyptian bondage. This is obvious stuff.

The Romans wretch was carnal and sold under sin. Being carnal and sold under sin is not a picture of being "saved." Such a notion is absurd and one has to throw reason out the window to believe it.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

The carnal mind has to be crucified in repentance. The old man has to die once and for all.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

One cannot be subject to the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ whilst still carnally minded. That is why James tells people to...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

All evil has to be laid aside once and for all. It is only after having laid aside all filthiness that the Logos of God can be received inwardly. It is the inward reception of the Word of God which saves us. We have to ABIDE in Jesus Christ and such a thing is simply impossible if one is carnal and sold under sin.

The faith that saves is an active faith, it works. It is in the manifestation of an active faith that the grace of God takes effect by empowering or quickening our inner man. Our core is energised by the power of God and it is that energising which produces the genuine salvation experience.

The Romans wretch is not the description of someone whom has been saved by the working dynamic of grace through faith. The Romans wretch is a description of a man whom is under conviction of the law who cannot find the means to stop sinning.

It is extremely dangerous to be telling people that they are saved in their sins. By doing so you give them an excuse to "wait on God" because you won't tell them to actually and genuinely repent. If there is no genuine repentance there can be no genuine salvation and therefore there cannot be any salvation FROM sin.

The individual in the OP is clearly stating that they are still enslaved to sin. They find themselves in this hot/cold cycle of sin/repent. They are deceived and need to hear the real truth, not some ear tickling pandering where they just need to "trust in Jesus" and "what Jesus did on the cross" and "pray." That is nonsense.

Jesus died on our behalf as an example that we may approach God via His blood seeking a cleansing through genuine repentance and faith. Satan perverts the definitions and thus the true understanding of repentance and faith and thus destroys the whole Gospel message.


Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

DO what Jesus said and all will be good.

 

[Hepzibah]

I am not saying that a man can be a Christian and still sin. Scripture is clear, whoever sins is of the devil. I call those who are struggling with sin and have come to Christ at one point, believers just like the disciples before they were baptised by the Holy Ghost and became Christians. Tell me please what your definition of sin is? Do you have thoughts that are outside of the will of God? Do you lust when you see an attractive woman? If so then you are not a Christian yet despite not acting on your thoughts.

 

[Hepzibah]

Oh and skinski if that is you with the grey hair and the pot belly in the video then you are a sinner too and your belly rules you.

 

[Skinski7]

I am not saying that a man can be a Christian and still sin.

So what is this...

You are in Romans 7 but please ignore those who say that the chapter is about the unsaved man. It is not, it is a man who has come under conviction by the Holy Spirit that you have a need to be delivered from the law of sin and death because you have been trying to walk by the flesh.

You position is...

1. A Christian can be carnal and sold under sin.
2. The Romans wretch is saved.

Please ignore those who say that the chapter is about the unsaved man? What has the wretch been saved from exactly? Certainly not sin because he is still in bondage and a slave to whom he obeys.

You are upholding the classic Arminian error of Entire Sanctification or the Second Work of Grace. Under this theology an individual is saved IN their sins. They are saved and left in a state of bondage. What is your solution to this predicament? It is this...

What you need is to pray that you will be delievered by seeing what Christ did on the cross in killing your old nature and be willing to submit yourself entirely to Him.

Pray that "you will be" delivered by "seeing what Jesus did on the cross in killing your old nature" and be "willing to submit entirely." That is nonsense.

You have a "saved Christian" who has not submitted entirely to Jesus. Your advice to this individual, whom is still in rebellion, is to "pray, see and be willing to submit." The Bible does not take that approach at all. You have bought into a theology which offers an indefinite grey area of ongoing disobedience which serves as a fantastic excuse to delay a genuine repentance.

Also what is this, "what Christ did on the cross in killing your old nature" ???? Where is that in the Bible?

The Bible says...

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

IF we have been planted in the likeness of His death. Jesus doesn't do it for you. Jesus didn't do it for you. We have to follow the example of Jesus and DIE TO SIN in repentance. The cross is a picture of the repentance and subsequent new birth experience. The cross is an example for us to follow.

IF we have been planted together in the likeness of His death then our old man IS crucified with Him. Our old man is crucified with Jesus for the express purpose of destroying the body of sin which brings an end to the service of sin in our lives. The body of sin is that old man who walked in the flesh subject to the lusts of the flesh, it is the beast man.

The Romans wretch is a picture of the beast man being brought under conviction. The Romans wretch has not died to the law (which only regulates the outward man) in order to be raised up to serve the Spirit (which regulates the inward man). The Romans wretch has to die to the law by the body of Christ (ie. identifying with the death of the old man in repentance and the rebirth by the Spirit through obedience to the truth) in order to escape bondage.

None of this is complicated.

What complicates it is the erroneous teachings of people like John Wesley, John Calvin and others. People read commentaries and have there minds corrupted with fallacies and then they cannot perceive the simplicity of what the Bible is saying because they read it through a theological filter.

Scripture is clear, whoever sins is of the devil. I call those who are struggling with sin and have come to Christ at one point, believers just like the disciples before they were baptised by the Holy Ghost and became Christians. Tell me please what your definition of sin is? Do you have thoughts that are outside of the will of God? Do you lust when you see an attractive woman? If so then you are not a Christian yet despite not acting on your thoughts.

All your questions are rooted in a foundation of Second Blessing theology. You have to count all that stuff as dung before you can even hope to grasp what I am saying. If you continue to force the traditions of men into the Bible then you will always be confused as to what I am saying.

Sin means "missing the mark" or "not going the correct way." Yet the context of "sin" goes much deeper. The sin that kills is rebellion, not ignorantly missing the mark.

Repentance purges rebellion by destroying the iniquity in the heart of a sinner. Thus it is the willful sin which ceases once and for all for a Christian. We are still tempted for temptation is common to man but we bring our minds into submission to Christ and thus are not drawn away by our natural passions. We bring every thought into submission to God.

Thus we no longer lust after women or entertain sinning in our minds. We are crucified with Christ and we no longer live but He lives in us. This is what Christianity is all about. It is a MANIFEST STATE or an ABIDING WALK.

Wesleyian theology tries to split it into two parts allowing room for "partial obedience" whilst giving people comfort that "total obedience" will come some time later down the track. In other words it is just another disguise for teaching you can sin and not surely die.

Don't be fooled.

 

[Skinski7]

Oh and skinski if that is you with the grey hair and the pot belly in the video then you are a sinner too and your belly rules you.

Does that man look like a 41 year old?

This is me.




Is a pot belly always indicative of gluttony? I prefer to withhold judgement until I actually know something.

A lot of the foods commonly available in developed countries are not the best for our health and not everyone understands that nor does everyone have a vegetable garden. I think it is best to stay away from making blanket accusatory remarks.