Gentiles

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

Biblical history classifies both Benjamin and Judah as the "house of Judah."
"And the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David king over the house of Judah" 2 Samuel 2:4

It also classifies the lost 10 tribes of Israel as the "house of Ephraim," Ephraim receiving the "birthright" from Jacob. See Genesis 48:12-20

"Moreover the children of Ammon passed over Jordan to fight also against Judah, and against Benjamin, and against the house of Ephraim; so that Israel was sore distressed." Judges 10:9

"For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:" 1 Chronicles 5:2

Now Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin, and Jesus was of the tribe of Judah (which we all know), both Benjamin and Judah being of the house of Judah (Jew being a short description for both tribes).

Paul writes of himself; "Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;" Philippians 3:4-5

So in reality, Paul is actually a Jew according to Biblical documentation. He was elected to be a minister to the Gentiles.

"For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" Ephesians 3:1-2

So when Paul writes "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" (Romans 1:16, and Romans 2:9-10), it is obvious that we, as Gentiles, have the opportunity to be grafted into the "Olive tree" whose original branches are Jewish.

Romans 11:17-24
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church, but the Gentiles are grafted into Christ via the Jews. Many have this backwards, but the Bible says what it says, and I'm sure I will get flack over this one and accused of promoting the HRM which I certainly am not a part of. I'm just promoting the Bible documentation, and the history from my KJV.

atwhatcost · Jul 23, 2015

just-me said:

Biblical history classifies both Benjamin and Judah as the "house of Judah."
"And the men of Judah came, and there they anointed David king over the house of Judah" 2 Samuel 2:4

It also classifies the lost 10 tribes of Israel as the "house of Ephraim," Ephraim receiving the "birthright" from Jacob. See Genesis 48:12-20

"Moreover the children of Ammon passed over Jordan to fight also against Judah, and against Benjamin, and against the house of Ephraim; so that Israel was sore distressed." Judges 10:9

"For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:" 1 Chronicles 5:2

Now Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin, and Jesus was of the tribe of Judah (which we all know), both Benjamin and Judah being of the house of Judah (Jew being a short description for both tribes).

Paul writes of himself; "Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;" Philippians 3:4-5

So in reality, Paul is actually a Jew according to Biblical documentation. He was elected to be a minister to the Gentiles.

"For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" Ephesians 3:1-2

So when Paul writes "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" (Romans 1:16, and Romans 2:9-10), it is obvious that we, as Gentiles, have the opportunity to be grafted into the "Olive tree" whose original branches are Jewish.

Romans 11:17-24
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church, but the Gentiles are grafted into Christ via the Jews. Many have this backwards, but the Bible says what it says, and I'm sure I will get flack over this one and accused of promoting the HRM which I certainly am not a part of. I'm just promoting the Bible documentation, and the history from my KJV.

Not really. I was graphed in by Christ, not by the Jews. And HE is the tree, not the Jews. I think you're stretching past solid hermeneutics.

On the good news side, I'm not charging you with HRM, but mostly because I keep thinking that stands for Her Royal Majesty, and you're American, so I'm thinking you care about as much for the queen mum as I so.

crossnote · Jul 23, 2015

Believing Jews and believing Gentiles are grafted into the One New Man comprising the Body of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14-16 (KJV)
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

KennethC · Jul 23, 2015

The tree is Jesus Christ Himself and we are grafted in by our belief in Him, not from the Jews

The Jews who are the natural branches have been cut off of that tree because of non-belief, and the bible makes it clear only those who put their faith in Christ will be grafted back in again. The tree is Jesus and not the Jews, and both get grafted in by belief in the Lord and Savior. For without Christ nobody will be saved !!!

crossnote · Jul 23, 2015

crossnote said:

And when the Body of Christ (the Church) is gone via the rapture, God will once again be dealing primarily with the broken off natural branches (Jacob's trouble) to the end that they be saved.

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

KennethC said:

Yes. Jesus said "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

Jesus said “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” Matthew 21:43

This “nation” which obviously includes Gentiles, is known as the “Kedohim” (Set Apart People, “set apart” meaning holy) who keep the Commandants of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Revelation 12:17

Gentiles usually met with believing Jews in the synagogues as shown in Acts 13:42; 14:1; 17:1-4; 18:4; and 19:8-10, and are equals to Jews, both in the fear of the Lord. It would seem that such basic facts would be very evident to anyone who has ever studied the Bible, but in the world of religion today, many prejudices exist between the Jews and the Gentiles due to bypassing these basics in what they, or we are taught.

dcontroversal · Jul 23, 2015

There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ, but rather a new creation in Christ Jesus....both are of the seed and stock of Abraham by faith.....

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

dcontroversal said:

The “light” of Messiah (Christ) was presented to Adam and Eve who were neither Jewish or Gentile. From their first breath of life, they both enjoyed spiritual intimacy with God and after their transgression, atonement was provided for them according to the “foreshadowing” of sacrifice that was completed and fulfilled in Christ Jesus. However, since God set a standard through the line of Judah and within the tribes of Israel, the term Gentile came to denote all souls who were not born into the commonwealth of Israel. However, all who belong to Jesus Christ, our Messiah are the Israel of God, and are therefore no longer Gentile, per se, but “fearers of God.”

“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.” Romans 10:12

“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:28-29

crossnote · Jul 23, 2015

Was Abraham a gentile before he was circumcised?

https://committedtotruth.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/question-was-abraham-a-gentile-or-a-jew/

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

crossnote said:

Abram would be classified as a Gentile according to Genesis chapter 10. About the time God changed his name to Abraham, and he became circumcised according to the covenant, he was recognized by the language He spoke which was Hebrew. The term Jew wasn't coined until Benjamin and Judah became the "house of Judah" after Israel split up as I understand. The first mention of Jew in the Bible is in 2 Kings 16:6

crossnote · Jul 23, 2015

just-me said:

So how come you said 'Adam and Eve was neither Jew or Gentile', yet Abraham started as a Gentile.
Where did Gentile come from?

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

crossnote said:

Gentile is first mentioned after the flood in Genesis Chapter 10. Up until the tower of Babel, all people spoke the same language. As I said Abraham was noted as a Hebrew because of the language he spoke. Before the flood there was no classification of diverse nations and sects that I can see in the Bible, and IMO they all spoke the same language. The Bible doesn't indicate people didn't understand each other before the flood of Noah. According to the Bible, language is also connected to the term "Gentile" after Babel including the Hebrew of Abraham.

Before this following scripture, there is no mention of "Gentile." Note that this scripture relates the term "Gentile" with "language", being post flood. It would be like me saying that there was no England, Germany, or Spain until their language came into existence, only as an example.

Genesis 10:1-5
1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

You know this.

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

Neither Jews or Gentiles have their own exclusive Covenant with God. There is no discrimination in the law or the New Covenant against non-Jewish converts of Christ Jesus, but neither is it acceptable for Gentiles to discriminate against Jews. These important directives are found in

Jeremiah 16:19

O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Isaiah 42:1 and 6

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.

Isaiah 49:6

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 60:3

And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Put the next 2 verses together in context

These Biblical facts are also found in many other places in the Bible., and because Jesus is the “light” presented to the Jews first, it is imperative for non-Jews to comprehend the root in the “Olive tree” and the “true vine” (See John 15:1-5, and Romans 11:17-24)

This is important because counterfeit religions have attempted to displace the original “Faith” by removing Jesus and His teachings out from the original context of the law and reinventing a different Messiah who is against the instructions that the real Messiah's Father spoke in the past to Israel.

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

The challenge to a believers is to “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (John 5:39 and 2 Timothy 2:15)

jaybird88 · Jul 23, 2015

i thought the rainbow covenant of Noah was for the gentiles?

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

jaybird88 said:

Explain that one. I have never heard of that before. Do you have any scripture?

I found this on a website, but I have not any scripture to back it up because it's all from the Jewish Talmud that I am not acquainted with in the least.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/The_Seven_Noahide_Laws.html

The Noachide Laws are seven laws considered by rabbinic tradition as the minimal moral duties required by the Bible on all men. While Jews are obligated to observe the whole Torah - 613 commandments, every non-Jew is considered a "son of the covenant of Noah" and he who accepts these obligations is considered a righteous person who is guaranteed a place in the world to come.

The seven Noachide laws, as traditionally enumerated are:

Do Not Deny God
Do Not Blaspheme God
Do Not Murder
Do Not Engage in Incestuous, Adulterous or Homosexual Relationships.
Do Not Steal
Do Not Eat of a Live Animal
Establish Courts/Legal System to Ensure Law Obedience

Except for the seventh law, all are negative commands, and the last itself is usually interpreted as commanding the enforcement of the others. They are derived exegetically from divine demands addressed to Adam and Noah, the progenitors of all mankind, and are thus regarded as universal. Noachides may also freely choose to practice certain other Jewish commandments and Maimonides held that Noachides must not only accept these seven laws on their own merit, but must also accept them as divinely revealed.

prove-all · Jul 23, 2015

And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that
I may remember [the everlasting covenant between God and [every living] creature].

just-me · Jul 23, 2015

prove-all said:

Wasn't the rainbow covenant a promise that God would never again destroy the earth with a flood such as Noah and his family experienced?

And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. Genesis 9:11

Genesis 9:13-16
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

As I stated in a previous post,(this one) the descendants of Noah (after God's Judgment on Babel) where known as Gentiles because of diverse languages. Genesis 10:1-5

jaybird88 · Jul 23, 2015

just-me said:

the Noachide laws was what i was referring to. i think of them as the rainbow covenant of Noah. im just going by memory.

prove-all · Jul 23, 2015

prove-all said:

I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

11And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more
[by the waters of a flood]; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

next time he will send fire down to earth , and the mountains will melt.

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