12 Signs You Are A Modern-Day Pharisee

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

Ralph-

Guest
#41
Where does Jesus say that in the goats and sheep parable? Where does Jesus preach salvation through faith in His sacrifice alone anywhere in The Bible? Don't quote me Paul or any apostle. Give me a verse from Jesus Himself.
Luke 7:47-50

47“For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.” 48Then He said to her, “Your sins have been forgiven.” 49Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this man who even forgives sins?” 50And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Her love for Jesus displayed in her service for Him was the evidence that she was saved through faith in God's forgiveness. She will stand in the Judgment as a sheep and enter into the kingdom not because her service for Jesus earned that salvation but because her service for Jesus is the proof of her having received the forgiveness of God in salvation.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,521
113
#42
Where does Jesus say that in the goats and sheep parable? Where does Jesus preach salvation through faith in His sacrifice alone anywhere in The Bible? Don't quote me Paul or any apostle. Give me a verse from Jesus Himself.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

No man is born a Christian but the man that is born again is a Christian. One birth equals two deaths while two births equals only one death.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#43
exactly.............we believe in a grace based eternal salvation so we for sure teach we can live like the devil and do as we please with a license to sin....
The new Pharisee doesn't come right out and say that. He says you are able to do that and you will still be saved. The new Pharisee abuses grace to the same extent that the old Pharisee abused the law. All in the name of justifying his sin.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#44
See, the old Pharisee would never come right out and say, 'you can break the law'. What he would teach is something that would give the appearance of keeping the law but which actually trampled the law.

And so it is with the new Pharisee. He doesn't come right out and say, 'sin all you want'. What he teaches is something that gives the appearance of glorifying the grace of God but which actually tramples it underfoot.
 
Aug 11, 2018
14
8
3
#45
The Pharisees were a rebellious sect who developped the oral law, and gave it equal footing with Torah.

Any doctrine which is a spin-off of the Gospel and which fosters division has Pharisaical tendencies.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#46
Where does Jesus say that in the goats and sheep parable? Where does Jesus preach salvation through faith in His sacrifice alone anywhere in The Bible? Don't quote me Paul or any apostle. Give me a verse from Jesus Himself.

does the thief on the cross appeal to you? that dude did nothing but ask Jesus to 'remember' him. what did Jesus answer?

maybe show where works plus faith equals salvation

and what is it you seem to object to with regards to Paul?

I notice you wanted 'a verse'. don't you take all of the Bible into consideration or do you see verses as little capsules that are self contained nuggets of whatever a person is looking for?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#47
It can also be said that the Modern day Pharisee is the one who abuses grace in the same way that the Pharisees of old abused the law.

And that is clearly what we are seeing today--the new, modern day Pharisee who takes the words of the New Covenant and twists them to cater to his/her sinful, unsaved life in order to make themselves appear righteous in Christ when in fact they are not.

I disagree with the above highlighted

Pharisees thought they were all about the law and frankly, I see folks putting up 'measuring sticks' and qualifications for salvation that are just not in scripture

there is only one qualification for salvation and it is not what we do and not how we keep it

I don't see how someone 'abusing' grace fits into a discription of a modern day Pharisee

IMO, that would be a person who condemns those who do not believe like they do...like the Sabbath keepers that we recently had a reintroduction to. you know? being told you are not saved because you do not keep their understanding of the 'Sabbath' is REALLY Pharisaical IMO

to sum up, I would understand that a Pharisee of any age, are those who look down their snoots at others and fancy themselves better
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#48
/
I don't see how someone 'abusing' grace fits into a discription of a modern day Pharisee
I explained it this way:

"...the Modern day Pharisee is the one who abuses grace in the same way that the Pharisees of old abused the law."

The point being, as I said, they do that to justify their sinful lives and to give the appearance of being right with God. One glorifies the greatness of the law while abusing it. The other glorifying the greatness of grace while abusing it.



IMO, that would be a person who condemns those who do not believe like they do...like the Sabbath keepers that we recently had a reintroduction to. you know? being told you are not saved because you do not keep their understanding of the 'Sabbath' is REALLY Pharisaical IMO
The point is, this is hardly the problem with the church today. The far, far larger problem in the church today is the abuse of grace.



to sum up, I would understand that a Pharisee of any age, are those who look down their snoots at others and fancy themselves better
And you think grace people do not ever do this in feigned humility?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,524
113
#49
This is true, and I wouldn't deny it. I didn't get a feeling this was for that purpose though. Also, do we honestly believe a Legalist or Pharisee would read this and be like, "Yes! Thats me." or anything like that? It seems to me to be more aimed at the choir.
Legality has to do with laws . There are two different kinds of laws . The law of men, seen, called the law of the fathers which are simply oral traditions of men . And the law of our father in heaven not seen . In that way we are to call no man on earth father.

Pharisee with Sadducees two different sect that put aside their difference as to which group of father to venerate as a form of worship attacked the law of faith as in all things written in the law and prophets...... (sola scriptura) in respect to our unseen Father in heaven .

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

They would be the ones that through a oral tradition of their father say show us a miracle and then we will beleive. Some call them "sign gifts" In effect making Christ into a circus seal, as if we walked by sight and not by faith (the unseen)

Paul before his conversion acted as a Pharisee of Pharisees (leader).He is shown being taught by the finest and according to the law of Man he had a false zeal for knowing God , walking by sight as in out of sight out of mind . He persecuted the Christians, murdering them torturing them again according to walking by sight killing the misperceived competition out of sight out of mind. This was as if the kingdom of God was of this world

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.Acts 22:3-5
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
909
250
63
#50
If I were to be truly honest, I would probably say we all fall into at least one of the points the OP mentioned.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,524
113
#51
I disagree with the above highlighted

Pharisees thought they were all about the law and frankly, I see folks putting up 'measuring sticks' and qualifications for salvation that are just not in scripture

there is only one qualification for salvation and it is not what we do and not how we keep it

I don't see how someone 'abusing' grace fits into a description of a modern day Pharisee

IMO, that would be a person who condemns those who do not believe like they do...like the Sabbath keepers that we recently had a reintroduction to. you know? being told you are not saved because you do not keep their understanding of the 'Sabbath' is REALLY Pharisaical IMO

to sum up, I would understand that a Pharisee of any age, are those who look down their snoots at others and fancy themselves better

Catholicism is Phariseeism . They do despite to the Spirit of grace by teaching the non venerable pew sitters that Christ suffered a remnant of Grace and not the fulness of it. They say Mary alone receive the fullness of His grace and others must work to gain it in this life and finish that work in a place they call purgatory for another unknown amount of suffering as the finishing remnant that Christ could not .Every form of suffering in this life they say can be applied to the whole.

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?Hebrews 10:29
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,776
1,801
113
Germany
#52
10.) You don’t know the difference between a convert and a transfer.

what does that mean?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,831
1,166
113
#53

I thought this was a good song for the topic...
 

Lucian_Hodoboc

Junior Member
Dec 28, 2017
18
6
3
#54
does the thief on the cross appeal to you? that dude did nothing but ask Jesus to 'remember' him. what did Jesus answer?
He defended Jesus against the other thief, which was an act of faith. An act. An action. He also recognized Jesus as divine, displayed a belief in God and repented while suffering excruciating pain. It seems like he did a few thhings.

maybe show where works plus faith equals salvation
The parable of the sheep and goats. It doesn't get more clearer than that. Nowhere does Jesus say in that parable that the "goats" were sentenced to hell because they didn't believe in Him. Also the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)
and what is it you seem to object to with regards to Paul?
I'm skeptical about the interpretation of his writings.

I notice you wanted 'a verse'. don't you take all of the Bible into consideration or do you see verses as little capsules that are self contained nuggets of whatever a person is looking for?
I find it impossible to take the entire Bible into consideration, as (in my opinion) it contains contradictory verses.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#55
Well I do not know where you obtained the list but I would like to have you provide scripture relative to each point.

Is a Pharisee the same as a legalist? I do not relate Pharisee to Gentiles but see it as a Jewish term.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is a good point.

What exactly were the sins of the Pharisees according to the Author of my Faith?


Matt. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition

So a modern day Pharisee would also partake and preach religious traditions which actually transgress the commandments of God.

Do we know any religion which comes in Christ's Name that has religious traditions which transgress the commandments of God?

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

So a Modern day Pharisee would partake of and preach Doctrines which come from "laws" of men and not from God.

Do we know of a religion which comes in Christ's name, that has influenced whole Governments to shut down on a "man made" High Days? I find it fascinating that the greatest High Day in all Christianity is a day the Word which became Flesh said nothing about. But the "Feasts" of this same Word which became Flesh, the Messiah, are rejected by those "many" who come in Christ's name.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Not God) bind heavy burdens (Yoke) and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders (necks); but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers

So a modern day Pharisee would place a "Yoke" on the necks of the religious people that followed them. Could this "Yoke" be their own religious "traditions" which transgress God's Commandments? Could this "Yoke" be man made doctrines, images of God in the likeness of a men's hair shampoo model, High Days created by religious man to walk in and not God ?

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

So the modern day Pharisee would claim to be God's Children, but would reject the Laws God gave them through Moses. Are we supposed to listen to the Moses and the Prophets?

What does the Messiah say about that.

Luke 16:
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead

So the Pharisees rejected much of the teaching of Moses and the Prophets. The Messiah confirms this.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So a modern day Pharisee would also refuse to hear much what Moses and the prophets taught.


Do we know any religion, which comes in Christ's name, that rejects much of what the Law and Prophets teach?

Did the Messiah rebuke these preachers, using the Word's from the Law and Prophets? We know He did. And they didn't receive Him or those who would use His Word's in like manner.

So a modern day Pharisee would also reject any rebuke which came directly from the Word of God.

Great post, a perfect scale to "Test the spirits" with.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#56
Nowhere does Jesus say in that parable that the "goats" were sentenced to hell because they didn't believe in Him.
We know from the whole counsel of scripture that the goats lack of works testifies to the fact that they do not believe and trust in the forgiveness he offers through his own blood.

Faith in God is measured by what it does. No works means no faith in God.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,521
113
#57
If you fail point 7 the rest of the list is mute. A Pharisee is a religious leader but not a regenerated soul. Religious but lost is what we see in Mat 23. You can disciple sheep but not goats. Wheat produces fruit but tares do not. You cannot make bread from tares only wheat.

So if you are not born again and a Christian the rest of the list is just the normal complaining against under discipled souls. Under discipled and under fed so they are starving for truth.

Christians are to be witnesses for Christ and to disciple the nations according to the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
785
113
#58
Its funny, your the 27th post. And the first one to mention OSAS.

Yet you think it is an OSAS thread?
Check posts 16 and 18. Also Dcon's and Ralph's posts. They can't help themselves :)
 

Lucian_Hodoboc

Junior Member
Dec 28, 2017
18
6
3
#59
We know from the whole counsel of scripture that the goats lack of works testifies to the fact that they do not believe and trust in the forgiveness he offers through his own blood.

Faith in God is measured by what it does. No works means no faith in God.
What you're displaying here is an example of eisegesis (the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions). There are plenty of people belonging to other religions, as well as some atheists and agnostics, who are humanitarians and give to charity.

Faith in God is measured by what it does can be interpreted in several ways. One could say that he has faith in God that God will solve things if he prays several hours every day, so he prays several hour every day. Another could say that he shows his faith by helping out the poor several hours every day instead of praying, so he helps out the poor for several hours every day.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,798
610
113
#60
Why are they mutually exclusive? Do the goats get sent to the eternal fire for not believing in Him or for not having works? Did the rich man get sent to the place of torture for not believing in Jesus or for having enjoyed his riches without caring for other people (Lazarus)'s sufferings? Did the Samaritan help the robbed man because he believed in Jesus or because he listened to the kindness placed by God in his heart? Did Jesus not tell the rich young man that, in order to be perfect, he has to keep the commandments, sell his possessions, give the money to the poor and follow Him? Did Jesus tell him to only follow him? No. The part about helping others (works) is important.
A lot of people do not get that for without works of the Spirit then faith does not apply in our life, which Paul said they are nothing, and James said their faith is dead, and John said the love of God does not dwell in them, which all 3 of them pointed out charity, love in action, and to help those in need if they can.

But we see many people that lack works thinking it has no bearing on their salvation, but then that means they are not led of the Spirit, and Jesus addressed 2 Churches in Revelation according to their works, and said the first Church left their first love, and to repent and do those works, and the fifth Church He said that their works were not found perfect before God, and to repent and do those works or they would have no salvation.

And where they lack the most is loving money, and material things, for their wants, which the Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, which is the way God created the earth to operate and that is according to loving people, and love is the fulfilling of the law.