why cessationism is wrong: good article

[PeacefulWarrior]

Re: Why this thread is wrong:

this is the type of thing that requires a pm

it sounds like you would like to have an arguement with her in public...you know...give her a good ole thrashing with an audience

you did the same thing to me in the other thread and I told you that I do not accept your remarks or your judgement of me

convallaria does not need me to answer for her, but I am because she is probably asleep over in the UK right now (time diff) and I have seen you making these kind of remarks here in the forums once too often

did all the moderators leave and put you in charge?

stop attacking other believers...discuss the op...not the person...it's making for some real bad atmosphere

people need to learn how to do that...I doubt very much that convalleria had only you in mind when she started these threads...they are open to everyone

Oh the irony...

 

[convallaria]

Re: Why this thread is wrong:

this is the type of thing that requires a pm

it sounds like you would like to have an arguement with her in public...you know...give her a good ole thrashing with an audience

you did the same thing to me in the other thread and I told you that I do not accept your remarks or your judgement of me

convallaria does not need me to answer for her, but I am because she is probably asleep over in the UK right now (time diff) and I have seen you making these kind of remarks here in the forums once too often

did all the moderators leave and put you in charge?

stop attacking other believers...discuss the op...not the person...it's making for some real bad atmosphere

people need to learn how to do that...I doubt very much that convalleria had only you in mind when she started these threads...they are open to everyone

Thanks Ember, I just found it

 

[notuptome]

a higher regard for other Christians might be in the works for you

you have no business telling others that they do not revere the Bible as much as or quite possibly more than, you do

the problem is that you seem unable to discuss something without digging at people personally...occaisonally some people need a reminder that their remarks are unacceptable

it is unacceptable to berate others because they do not share your opinion

If you continue to berate the word of God your problem will not be with me. I can do nothing except to urge you to honor Gods word.

An old Baptist evangelist I knew once said if God is dialing your number you ought to pick up the phone.

I find there is a difference between berating a person and illustrating the error of their doctrine. God is not a respecter of persons even those who have addressed thousands or hundreds or even just a few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ember]

If you continue to berate the word of God your problem will not be with me. I can do nothing except to urge you to honor Gods word.

An old Baptist evangelist I knew once said if God is dialing your number you ought to pick up the phone.

I find there is a difference between berating a person and illustrating the error of their doctrine. God is not a respecter of persons even those who have addressed thousands or hundreds or even just a few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you're not God and you don't have my number

stop splitting hairs Roger...you continually tell people things like they don't know God or they don't know or have respect for their Bible

you do so if someone does not agree with you....God is not a respecter of persons...He does not respect you more than He respects me

you are throwing out a large portion of the Bible you say you have all this respect for

that's fine...that does not change salvation but it does not give you the right to berate other people!!

I'm fine with God Roger...we had a lovely time together this am in fact in reading, study and prayer...He never once told me that I was anathema

 

[ember]

Re: Why this thread is wrong:

Oh the irony...

pride and prejudice...more than just a book apparently

if someone continually gives it, they should not be surprised to receive it

sowing and reaping

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

That is totally wrong PW. Again, you are wanting to appear the expert in something that is completely off the wall and unbiblical. Something really fishy is going on here.

RE:

THE CHURCH TO A GREAT EXTEND IS FALLEN AWAY FROM GOD'S WILL AND DOCTRINES, THESE ARE THE END TIMES. IF SUPPOSEDLY GOD'S PEOPLE DON'T STAND UP NOW AND BELIEVE GOD, THEN WHEN?

'God's doctrines' is an oxymoron. We've been in the 'end times' since the Garden of Eden.

Just look at what you said to me:

That is totally wrong PW. Again, you are wanting to appear the expert in something that is completely off the wall and unbiblical. Something really fishy is going on here.

You tell me "that" is totally wrong, when my statement was twofold -- and instead of addressing my error with contrary facts, you instead chose to make a personal accusation in regards to my motivation and character!!


If you believe my statement is totally wrong and unbiblical, please correct me -- leave your guesses about my personal motivations and character out of it!

 

[atwhatcost]

So Francis Schaeffer was a prophet? Is the Pope, Joseph Smith, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Ron Hubbard, Ellen White, Margaret MacDonald, also prophets?

An inspired work is not any ole book, but scripture. "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life" (Revelation 22:18-19). I'm not saying there aren't inspirational Christian books, just that they aren't direct revelations given by God.

A true prophet receives revelation from God about future events, the rest is just philosophy, opinion, and interpretation of what has already been written.

No, that's not "a true prophet." That's simply what you were taught as the definition of the word. Go do some studying of your own. (BTW, even under your definition of the word, Schaeffer fits.)

 

[atwhatcost]

David Koresh wasn't that bad. I've listened to the man preach, and he spoke the gospels well. The government made an example of him because they wanted the devout to feel threatened.

The government made an example of him by forcing him to have everyone, including himself, drink the spiked Kool-Aid before they showed up? Man! I'm glad you don't write history.

 

[ember]

didn't koresh have like 19 wives or something? another cult from what I understand

I don't necesairly agree with how it was handled, but Koresh was no prophet of the biblical kind

moving right along....


the NT requirement for prophet actually has much more to do with the expounding or telling forth of the word rather than events to come...so actually can be combined with teaching too I would think

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Re: Why this thread is wrong:

Hi PW,

I think it is pretty clear you had help with your "understanding" of things but not to worry.

This is how I see it:

When we first met you seemed to be a peacemaker on the discussions, which I appreciated very much. You at one point claimed to be new to the faith, and I being new to the forum felt you deserved plenty of latitude if you were going to be a force for peace. You even changed your ID to PeacefulWarrior instead of WoundedWarrior, which was good.

Then at some point I noticed you weren't exactly peacemaking so much as agreeing with everyone, or at least "liking" all the posts. I still thought, not to worry...and encouraged you to spend a little more time reading the word of God rather than agreeing with all, if you remember. God says light cannot have fellowship with darkness so it is a bit worrying to me that you would want to appear to be on everyone's side. That is not so much peacemaking as something a bit cowardly and weak, trying to be buddies with all whether they are right or wrong. But even so I thought, if you truly are new to the faith then so long as you keep reading and praying and holding onto the Lord, you will find the right way.

I actually identified at one point that you seemed to be gravitating towards the "tongue haters" point of view, which really is dangerous for you and anyone else taken in by it, because it is tantamount to denying the Holy Spirit.

Now suddenly you seem to be the expert on what you call "continuism"...and I am suddenly the bad guy for speaking against cessationism. Now I have never heard such a term as continuism before in my life, so you obviously are not so green as you made yourself out to be, if you are using such words with such apparent authority. That is, unless you were actually playing us all and pretending not to know anything. Either way, you suddenly began to defend people who had belittled, insulted and pretty vilely attacked those of us who speak in tongues and have given testimony of such on here. Well I am sorry, but I am not going to be messed about, thank you.

There is no such thing as continuism, there is just the word of God. Whoever got at you has lied to you, and you have swallowed it hook line and sinker.

The word of God (quick and powerful) is the opposite of cessationism (dead and powerless and gone), which makes cessationism heresy.

Now then PW, you need to come away from those people who are trying to teach you error: not for my good but for your good, because it will end badly for you if you don't.

Pray the Lord will guide you into the company of Spirit filled believers who are not afraid to tell you the truth, and get stuck into your Bible as deeply as you can, asking Him to lead you as He has promised, into all truth.

Response to you that went ignored: Here , Here's another, Here's an early one, Need more examples?

Challenge opinions with fact, not fiction.

 

[AceMichaels]

Defending David Koresh is , imo, is foolish. Do you realise he let people die over his warped interpreting? He was a pedophile? And worst of all, passed himself off as a guitar player!!!!! Sick individual that deserves no praise.

 

[convallaria]

the NT requirement for prophet actually has much more to do with the expounding or telling forth of the word rather than events to come...so actually can be combined with teaching too I would think

Amen! That is my experience and understanding also.

 

[atwhatcost]

I don't believe that every instance of God revealing Himself to someone in ancient times was revealed to us. We know, for instance, that prior to any Scripture being written God communicated to some people in visions, in dreams, and in "sundry" other manners (Heb. 1:1).

"Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof. In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men, fear came upon me.... Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair on my flesh stood up: it stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: ... and I heard a voice, saying, Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?" (Job 4:12-17)

But we also know that Satan and his demons deceive people with communications, as well. And false religions have sprung up all around the globe, many of them sharing some features with the truth. (Satan is, after all, a great counterfeiter.) So, while I can't entirely discount the claim that very early in history God revealed Himself to some people in the far east, I think there are decent reasons to be skeptical that we can know that He revealed Himself to some people there simply because the name of one of their gods resembles the name of God and possibly even has an overlapping meaning. In fact, if their 'god' had a Satanic character, it would be just as possible that Satan wanted to receive the praise and glory of God and, as a result, "revealed" himself to pagans under similar names and attributes. This is especially the case because divine revelation has been progressive, and the earlier we go in history (after the fall), the less specific his revelation was. So it would be surprising if He was giving His exact name to people in the far east. Notice in the quotation from the book of Job above that Eliphaz (speaking) said "I could not discern the form [of the spirit]." I take this to be a confirmation that -- even in a clear case of a divine revelation at that point in history -- the revelation was murky, unclear, and deficient. Which is why revelation became more and more clear until we finally had the completed canon of Scripture -- everything we need, clearly laid out for us.

There are two reasons I believe these two visits from God (one in pre-China and the other in pre-Rome.)

1. Adam Clarke taught me that, and I trust him, even if he didn't get some of the benefits we have now that more archaeological digs have happened.

2. Exactly for the reasons you gave about the church is a history of falling away from God and coming up with our own ideas to replace him. Same thing happened in both those cultures. Before that visit, there were lots of false gods being worshiped. After the visit, there was only one God. It didn't take long before he was replaced for a kind-of-like-him god, followed right back into a multitude gods. Isn't that what has happened again? Jesus came. Many believed in him, but over the course of time, (and it was a short time period like it was when Jove turned into Jupiter), factions came along, Jesus wasn't really God, Jesus was God, but he was never a man, Jesus saves everybody, you have to be perfect, etc. And now most of the world has whittled Jesus down to some god some uneducated people believe in, and he is no different then the god the Catholics/community churches/Muslims/Mormons/JWs believe in.

It feels right, because we're doing the exact same thing the pre-Chinese and Pre-Romans did when God showed up for them.

Which also brings this back to the need for the continuing gifts. Simply because 80% of the people in the world think they know who Jesus was, doesn't mean 80% of the world knows Jesus is. Clearly a big part of the church today is NOT the invisible church. We're losing ground, not gaining it.

 

[atwhatcost]

didn't koresh have like 19 wives or something? another cult from what I understand

I don't necesairly agree with how it was handled, but Koresh was no prophet of the biblical kind

moving right along....


the NT requirement for prophet actually has much more to do with the expounding or telling forth of the word rather than events to come...so actually can be combined with teaching too I would think

Ah Karesh! My bad. I just realized I was thinking of Jimmy Jones.

Soooo, good thing I don't write history too. lol

But, amen on what a prophet does.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Is Christ divided?

 

[atwhatcost]

Is Christ divided?

No but we sure seem to be.

 

[convallaria]

Re: Why this thread is wrong:

Response to you that went ignored: Here , Here's another, Here's an early one, Need more examples?

Challenge opinions with fact, not fiction.

You were admonished more than once: I am done with you.

Titus 3:10

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;


(vs 11)




Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

No but we sure seem to be.

I wish we could address this.

I wish we would squash it once and for all.



(Ignoring the issue and creating a new thread does not make the issue disappear.)

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Re: Why this thread is wrong:

You were admonished more than once: I am done with you.

Titus 3:10

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

(vs 11)

Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

I'm half your age.

Goodbye, mother.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Re: Why this thread is wrong:

pride and prejudice...more than just a book apparently

if someone continually gives it, they should not be surprised to receive it

sowing and reaping

Poor justification for poor actions.