The sign of justification by faith (Hebrews chapter 4)

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R

Roberth

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Before I touch on the Sabbath, as a sign of justification by faith, I first need to draw some parallels to circumcision. Once I do that I will attempt to link the Sabbath, not to the law (i.e., 4th commandment), but rather to the gospel.

What does the NT say about the Judaizers and their demands for circumcision?

First let's go to Acts 15:1,5

Verse 1: "Some men (the Judaizers) came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved!"

Verse 5: Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees (i.e., the Judaizers) stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

How did Peter respond?

verse 10 Why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke (yoke of bondage) that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are...."

So Peter rejected circumcision as a condition for salvation.

What about Paul?

Turn to Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

So Paul rejected circumcision too as a means of salvation! In fact he stated such a believer, who attempted to by justified by law, would fall from grace. That's means he, through legalism, would end up lost and hell bound.

Now turn to Romans 4:11

And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal (or sign) of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised....

If Abraham, who was righteous by faith, received circumcision wouldn't that put him in the camp of the Judaizers?

 
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crossnote

crossnote

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#2
Roberth said:


Now turn to Romans 4:11

And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal (or sign) of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised....

If Abraham, who was righteous by faith, received circumcision wouldn't that put him in the camp of the Judaizers?
Click to expand...
Let's at least quote the whole verse...

Rom 4:11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, (ESV)
 
R

Roberth

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Roberth said:
Now turn to Romans 4:11

And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal (or sign) of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised....

If Abraham, who was righteous by faith, received circumcision wouldn't that put him in the camp of the Judaizers?
Click to expand...
Romans 4:4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness...

So "no", Abraham was not in the camp of the Judaizers and salvation by works. Why then did he received circumcision?

To understand this we have to go back to Genesis chapters 12 to 17...., but that's for another day....

Later....
 
R

Roberth

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crossnote said:
The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, (ESV)
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I am basically jumping ahead, but it wasn't only Abraham who was commanded, by God, to be circumcised:


Gen 17:9 God said further to Abraham, “Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. 13 A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”

Anyway, there it is....However, we need to understand why God command Abraham and his offspring to be circumcised. The Judiazers commanded it as a means of salvation, or works of the law. That's not the reason God commanded Abraham and his offspring to be circumcised....

Until tomorrow.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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Roberth said:

So "no", Abraham was not in the camp of the Judaizers and salvation by works. Why then did he received circumcision?

To understand this we have to go back to Genesis chapters 12 to 17...., but that's for another day....

Later....
Click to expand...
Why? It said in the verse I quoted...

Rom 4:11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, (ESV)
 
R

Roberth

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crossnote said:
Why? It said in the verse I quoted...

Rom 4:11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, (ESV)
Click to expand...

Let's look into this a bit deeper....keep in mind "it wasn't only Abraham who was commanded, by God, to be circumcised"
 
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R

Roberth

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Before I get into Genesis, Paul gives a clue:

Phil 3:2 Beware of the dogs (wolves in sheep's clothing -i.e., holy Joes), beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
 
J

justpassinthrough

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Oct 31, 2015
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#8
Roberth said:
Before I touch on the Sabbath, as a sign of justification by faith, I first need to draw some parallels to circumcision. Once I do that I will attempt to link the Sabbath, not to the law (i.e., 4th commandment), but rather to the gospel.

What does the NT say about the Judaizers and their demands for circumcision?

First let's go to Acts 15:1,5

Verse 1: "Some men (the Judaizers) came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved!"

Verse 5: Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees (i.e., the Judaizers) stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

How did Peter respond?

verse 10 Why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke (yoke of bondage) that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are...."

So Peter rejected circumcision as a condition for salvation.

What about Paul?

Turn to Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

So Paul rejected circumcision too as a means of salvation! In fact he stated such a believer, who attempted to by justified by law, would fall from grace. That's means he, through legalism, would end up lost and hell bound.

Now turn to Romans 4:11

And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal (or sign) of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised....

If Abraham, who was righteous by faith, received circumcision wouldn't that put him in the camp of the Judaizers?
Click to expand...

Do you understand what the scripture means when it says he received the sign of circumcision... a sign of the righteousness of faith.


Compare with... The law is not of faith. Galatians 3:12



JPT
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Roberth said:
Before I touch on the Sabbath, as a sign of justification by faith, I first need to draw some parallels to circumcision. Once I do that I will attempt to link the Sabbath, not to the law (i.e., 4th commandment), but rather to the gospel.

What does the NT say about the Judaizers and their demands for circumcision?

First let's go to Acts 15:1,5

Verse 1: "Some men (the Judaizers) came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved!"

Verse 5: Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees (i.e., the Judaizers) stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

How did Peter respond?

verse 10 Why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke (yoke of bondage) that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are...."

So Peter rejected circumcision as a condition for salvation.

What about Paul?

Turn to Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

So Paul rejected circumcision too as a means of salvation! In fact he stated such a believer, who attempted to by justified by law, would fall from grace. That's means he, through legalism, would end up lost and hell bound.

Now turn to Romans 4:11

And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal (or sign) of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised....

If Abraham, who was righteous by faith, received circumcision wouldn't that put him in the camp of the Judaizers?
Click to expand...
The entire New Testament is against physical circumcision right? I mean why would someone need to cut off literal flesh to be saved? The cutting off of the literal flesh was a 3rd dimensional shadow of the 4th dimensional reality of the cutting off the flesh (our flesh which Pauls says no good thing dwells) when we are crucified with Christ. It's just like all of the other Old Testament laws, they were 3 dimensional shadows of the fourth dimensional reality which could not become a reality until Christ came.... The same goes for the Sabbath.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Roberth said:
As a means of salvation or works of the law, correct.



As a means of salvation or works of the law, correct.
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So what is the purpose of those shadows now that the real thing has come?
 
R

Roberth

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KJV1611 said:
So what is the purpose of those shadows now that the real thing has come?
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Circumcision as given to Abraham was not a shadow.

The Sabbath as a sign of justification by faith, is not a shadow. It's linked to the gospel, or "His rest". Its a New Covenant sign.

Why don't you just relax? I've given you my plan:

Before I touch on the Sabbath, as a sign of justification by faith, I first need to draw some parallels to circumcision. Once I do that I will attempt to link the Sabbath, not to the law (i.e., 4th commandment), but rather to the gospel.
Click to expand...
 
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KJV1611

KJV1611

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So what was Abraham's circumcision for?
 
crossnote

crossnote

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Are you leading into the fact that we have circumcision of the heart in the NT as well as our rest in Christ (as our Sabbath rest)?
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
Click to expand...

The above is the yoke, that is, circumcision and the keeping of the law of Moses.

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. (Col 2:11-12)
 
L

Least

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#18
1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1 Corinthians 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Abraham wasn't perfect. Nor was anyone other than Jesus. Circumcision of the heart removes the stony or hard heart that sin produces.

This is HIS draw on our lives that makes us want to draw near to Jesus, to "die daily," to the flesh, to take up our cross and follow HIM.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

What do the "shadows," have to do with this? The shadows help us who are growing and maturing in HIM to understand God's will. It has everything to do with seeking HIS will and HIS way. Not our own.

People get so caught up in the idea that the "law," is bad, that to even mention the correlations or the examples that show clearly what it means by both the OT and NT scriptures causes many to shut down even at the mention, and to take the stance that others believe that they are saved by their own works. It's automatic it seems.

Everything that God ever said has a purpose.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Roberth said:

So Peter rejected circumcision as a condition for salvation.
Click to expand...


Ridiculous. Circumcision was not an unbearable yoke. Quite the contrary; it was a source of pride. It was done on an 8-day old child, and never had to be thought about again except in admiration that it made one a member of the old covenant.

The unbearable yoke that Peter was referring to was the law.
 
R

Roberth

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Roberth said:
So "no", Abraham was not in the camp of the Judaizers and salvation by works. Why then did he received circumcision?

To understand this we have to go back to Genesis chapters 12 to 17.....
Click to expand...
Gen 12:1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. 2 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you"

verse 7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your offspring I will give this land."

Gen 13:4 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west. 15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. 16 I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted.

Gen 15:1 After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: "Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward." 2 But Abram said, "O Sovereign LORD, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?" 3 And Abram said, "You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir." 4 Then the word of the LORD came to him: "This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir." 5 He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars--if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be." 6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

Notice that over and over God promises Abram that the number his offspring, from his own body, will be count as the stars of the sky. But so far Abram is childless.

Abram was 75 when God made him this promise. See Genesis 12:4

Now, in Genesis chapter 16, Abram is 86 years old (see Gen 16:16) and God still hasn't given Abram a child. So Abram has waited 11 years and still the promised child hasn't arrived.

Abram probably thought, "God, it took you 6 days to create the earth, how long does it take you to keep your promise?"

Well, after 11 years of no child, Sarah comes up with an idea. Her idea was let's help God keep His promise. Does that sound like faith or does it sound like works? Yes, the latter. Did Abram agree? Yes, let's read this:

Gen 16:1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, "The LORD has kept me from having children. (Notice she blames God) Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her." Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.

Now, was this sexual act, an act of faith or were they trying to help God keep His promise?

No, it wasn't an act of faith, but Abram was still righteous by faith, even though his faith was wavering.

More latter.
 
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