The sign of justification by faith (Hebrews chapter 4)

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Oct 3, 2015
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#61
The Sabbath-Sunday Controversy

The real issue is not the one we usually think of — Sabbath keeping versus Sunday keeping. Many sincere Sunday-keeping Christians today are fully resting in Christ for salvation. They are keeping the wrong day but for the right reason. Likewise, many sincere Sabbath-keeping Christians do so because they think their Sabbath keeping will save them. They are keeping the right day for the wrong reason. Both need to be corrected and, if we let Him, the Holy Spirit will do this as He guides us into all truth [see John 16:13].

When the gospel of the kingdom is preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations [see Matthew 24:14], it will polarize the human race into only two camps — believers and unbelievers [see 1 John 5:19]. There will be only those who are fully resting in Christ and those who have ultimately rejected Him. In the end time, all who come under the banner of Christ will worship the Lord of the Sabbath; their Sabbath keeping will be the outward sign or seal of the righteousness they have already received by faith, just as Abraham’s circumcision was “a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised” [Romans 4:11].

In the end time, those who have deliberately turned their backs on God’s free gift of salvation in Christ will worship the dragon that gives power to the beast [see Revelation 13:3-4]. They will exalt Sunday as man’s day of rest in defiance of God’s rest day. The issue, then, in the final conflict will not be between two groups of Christians, or even between two rest days, but between two opposing methods of salvation. The conflict will be between the seventh-day Sabbath, signifying salvation by faith alone, and Sunday, signifying salvation by human effort.

The fundamental issue throughout Scripture is salvation by faith versus salvation by works. At the heart of the Bible message is salvation by grace made effective through faith alone [see Habakkuk 2:4; Romans 3:28; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Hebrews 10:38-39; Hebrews 11:1-40]. At the heart of every false religion is salvation by works. In ancient times, Sunday became not only man’s day of physical and mental rest, but above all it symbolized his day of spiritual rest and worship based on the pagan belief that the sun was the chief of gods. This became prominent in the Roman Empire of Christ’s day. Hence, at its very foundation, Sunday rest is a pagan institution representing self-righteousness in contradiction to God’s Sabbath, the sign of righteousness by faith. These two opposing concepts of salvation have been in conflict since the Fall and can never be reconciled.

When the true gospel of righteousness by faith will be fully recovered and preached in all the world for a witness, every person will have to make a choice — either for or against Christ [see Deuteronomy 30:19-20; Joshua 24:13-15; Romans 9:30-33; Philippians 3:3-9]. At that time, the Sabbath will become God’s seal, representing righteousness by faith. Sunday keeping, in contrast, will represent the mark of the beast, signifying mankind’s rejection of God’s saving grace in Christ [see Revelation 14:10-11]. When laws legally establishing Sunday worship are enacted, it will indicate the world’s deliberate and ultimate rejection of God’s loving offer to salvation through His Son.

This is the “the abomination that causes desolation” of which Christ spoke [Matthew 24:15]. Those who will then insist on Sunday rest in willful opposition to God’s Sabbath will receive the plagues, God’s wrath poured out without mixture [see Revelation 14:9-11]. In contrast, those who will stubbornly cling to the seventh-day Sabbath will manifest a faith in God that is unshakable. They will go through the great time of trouble and wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb [see Revelation 7:14].

Because so many Christians still have confused ideas about salvation, the true nature of the controversy between God’s Sabbath and man’s Sunday is also not clearly understood. But when the two opposing methods of salvation come clearly into focus, then the true importance of the Sabbath will also be clearly seen. At that time Sabbath keeping will become a test of faith.

[Jack Sequeira]
 
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DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#63
So when you walk in the Spirit you aren't sinning...you are living Christ's life in full?

Answer: No!

1 John 1:8 "If we say we have no sin we are deceive ourselves"

Now, what's the measuring stick of righteousness? In other words if one is to claim that he is righteous (walking in the Spirit) how does he know?

So the question is, "what is sin"?

Transgression of the law, right?

Gal 5:14 "For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”
You have completely turned God's Word in Galatians 5 upside down with your false assumptions.

Gal 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh.
KJV

Gal 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV



Walking by The Spirit means not doing anything against God's laws, because to walk by The Spirit Paul explains is to do the works of The Spirit of which there is NO LAW AGAINST!

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
KJV

You show terribly your ignorance of God's laws in the process of your false assumptions.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#64
You have completely turned God's Word in Galatians 5 upside down with your false assumptions.

Gal 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh.
KJV

Gal 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV



Walking by The Spirit means not doing anything against God's laws, because to walk by The Spirit Paul explains is to do the works of The Spirit of which there is NO LAW AGAINST!

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
KJV

You show terribly your ignorance of God's laws in the process of your false assumptions.
Are you suggesting that walking by the spirit means you no longer break Gods law as in you keep it?

P.s. Genuine question.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#65
Are you suggesting that walking by the spirit means you no longer break Gods law as in you keep it?

P.s. Genuine question.
You're getting close to answering yourself but apparently you are not aware of that.

The Holy Spirit will not lead us to break God's laws which still exist that Christ did not nail to His cross. If it were otherwise, then that would be to say that The Holy Spirit directs us to do these works of the flesh which are still... against God's laws today:

Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

I should add, The Holy Spirit will instead lead us away... from those works of the flesh. But it's still up to us to heed The Holy Spirit, and when we do not, we are listening to and heeding our flesh instead.

 
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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#66
You're getting close to answering yourself but apparently you are not aware of that.

The Holy Spirit will not lead us to break God's laws which still exist that Christ did not nail to His cross. If it were otherwise, then that would be to say that The Holy Spirit directs us to do these works of the flesh which are still... against God's laws today:

Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV
I thought that was what you were saying. I have to agree with you on that point. I don't know why people think God is not able to keep us from falling.

This is the New covenant our Justification and our sanctification by his blood and by the Spirit.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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#67
I wish more people understood this, When I look around the world I see people slaves to sin and it hurts them and their loved ones. But what use is a savior to them if he cannot save them from not only Guilt but sin itself.

This is the good news of Jesus Christ that he will save his people form their sins. YHOSHUA
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#68
I wish more people understood this, When I look around the world I see people slaves to sin and it hurts them and their loved ones. But what use is a savior to them if he cannot save them from not only Guilt but sin itself.

This is the good news of Jesus Christ that he will save his people form their sins. YHOSHUA
Yes, but I don't want you to think that we are not still capable of sin. Apostle Paul gave a condition in Gal.5 with that "If". Even though we may slip up at times and listen to our flesh, that's when it's important to understand that we then need to recognize our sin and repent of it, asking Christ forgiveness, and then He is faithful to cleanse us from it, like Apostle John said in 1 John 1. There are some brethren that are told they can never sin anymore after having come to Christ Jesus, believed and been baptized. That's not what NT Scripture teaches. What is taught instead is that we are to 'try' and not sin, and that we are still subject to the temptations of our flesh, and will always fall short of the glory of God.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#69
Yes, but I don't want you to think that we are not still capable of sin. Apostle Paul gave a condition in Gal.5 with that "If". Even though we may slip up at times and listen to our flesh, that's when it's important to understand that we then need to recognize our sin and repent of it, asking Christ forgiveness, and then He is faithful to cleanse us from it, like Apostle John said in 1 John 1. There are some brethren that are told they can never sin anymore after having come to Christ Jesus, believed and been baptized. That's not what NT Scripture teaches. What is taught instead is that we are to 'try' and not sin, and that we are still subject to the temptations of our flesh, and will always fall short of the glory of God.
Ok I agree with some of what you said but not all.

A agree that we can fall and there is never a time on this side of heaven where it would be impossible to fall. But I don't think it is inevitable or has to happen.

I also don't think it has anything to do with us 'trying' Its about complete faith and trust in Christ that brings success. keeping our eyes on Jesus is what causes us to do the impossible and walk on water.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#70
Rom 3:23 "All have sinned (past tense) and fall short (continuous present tense) of the glory of God (his goodness)"

 
Oct 3, 2015
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#71
Rom 3:23 "All have sinned (past tense) and fall short (continuous present tense) of the glory of God (his goodness)"


"And fall short" of God's agape means you are never fully living up to the law and therefore you better not be under the law. If any of you think you are living up to the demands of the law then I have a question for you:

Do you love your neighbor in the same way that you naturally love yourself? If so, your neighbor would have all your goodies because agape is not self-seeking (see 1 Cor 13:5). There is no self-love in agape.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#72
Do you love your neighbor in the same way that you naturally love yourself? If so, your neighbor would have all your goodies because agape is not self-seeking (see 1 Cor 13:5). There is no self-love in agape.
Examples:

1 Cor 10:24 Let no man seek his own (which is self-seeking), but every man another's wealth.

Luke 6:27
“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies....30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back....34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full.35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.

1 Cor 13:5 "love...is not self-seeking"

 
Oct 3, 2015
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#73
Even though we may slip up at times and listen to our flesh...

Slip up at times? Hmmm? This infers that before you slipped up that you were in full compliance with the righteousness found in the law of God. That, I don't buy into at all.

While it is true that believers grow in grace (become more Christ like - see 2 Cor 3:18), we are never fully measuring up to the righteousness in the law. If we were fully measuring up John wouldn't have said, "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves" (1 John 1:8)

Essentially to be righteous before God's law you must exhibit no love of self. Agape fulfills the law. Self-love fulfills "the law of sin". As long as there's one ounce of "self" then we are not meeting up to the law demands.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#74
Slip up at times? Hmmm? This infers that before you slipped up that you were in full compliance with the righteousness found in the law of God. That, I don't buy into at all.

While it is true that believers grow in grace (become more Christ like - see 2 Cor 3:18), we are never fully measuring up to the righteousness in the law. If we were fully measuring up John wouldn't have said, "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves" (1 John 1:8)

Essentially to be righteous before God's law you must exhibit no love of self. Agape fulfills the law. Self-love fulfills "the law of sin". As long as there's one ounce of "self" then we are not meeting up to the law demands.
We don't have to worry about what you care to buy or sell. You're playing the Pharisee straining at a gnat.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#75
You're playing the Pharisee straining at a gnat.
No, no, no...you are the one prompting living above sin. I'm just telling you what it requires! Do you still feel righteous?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#76
No, no, no...you are the one prompting living above sin. I'm just telling you what it requires! Do you still feel righteous?
You don't determine who is righteous and who is not. You are not The LORD GOD. Continued repentance to Jesus Christ, asking Him forgiveness is not an attempt to prove one is righteous. That's your own little contrived trap of thinking.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#77
I wish more people understood this, When I look around the world I see people slaves to sin and it hurts them and their loved ones. But what use is a savior to them if he cannot save them from not only Guilt but sin itself.

This is the good news of Jesus Christ that he will save his people form their sins. YHOSHUA
Well the strength of sin is the law...namely the Ten Commandments ...and all forms of religious legalism increases the power of sin in a believers life. Grace (freedom..liberty) in the Spirit is the only biblical answer to the sin issue.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#78
You don't determine who is righteous and who is not. You are not The LORD GOD.
You claimed, at least I took it this way, that before you slipped and sinned that you were in compliance with God's law. I'm stating that's not true.....I'm not denying we grow, I'm denying that at any given moment we are perfect, as God is perfect.

Continued repentance to Jesus Christ, asking Him forgiveness is not an attempt to prove one is righteous. That's your own little contrived trap of thinking.
 
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Oct 3, 2015
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#79
Continued repentance to Jesus Christ, asking Him forgiveness is not an attempt to prove one is righteous. That's your own little contrived trap of thinking.
Repentance of sin proves that one is not righteous...If one were righteous, one would not need to repent. Follow?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#80
The sign of justification by faith is rest.

Not a sabbath rest. Not 'keeping' a sabbath. Not 'observing' a sabbath.

Actual real rest. From all of our work at the law and our own understanding of it.


Hebrews 4:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

You can't look to the law and say that your carnal understanding and your carnal work fulfills it. Because we already know that it is the Spirit that fulfills the law and it is only the Spirit that fulfills the law.

Galatians 3:2-3

[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Is the work at your carnal understanding of the law now supposedly the sign of your justification by faith? I know lots of judaizers and legalists want it to be.

But its not the case. The Holy Spirit is the sign of our Justification by Faith. It is the Fruit of the Holy Spirit that causes our Rest, and our obedience to Gods Law. His Real Spiritual Law, not the carnal understanding and physical performance of it.