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You need to take it slow and go back and read my posts about the mystery of the gospel. Paul was addressing the Greek speaking Israelites from the House of Israel. The House of Israel had been dispersed to the nations and given a divorce from the Most High. Now the law states that if a woman is divorced from a man and go and marry another man, and the latter husband dies or she is again divorced, she can not remarry the first husband(Deut 24:1-4). This is the case of the Greek speaking Israelites from the House of Israel. Now when Jesus had died on the tree and resurrected they were Freed from that law. They were no longer under the curse of the law and could remarry again into covenant through Christ who died for them. Hence, they were not UNDER THE LAW, or the CURSE of the law by not permitting them to come back to The Most High which was commonly taught.
Deuteronomy 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. 3And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
They were also under the curse of adultery by committing adultery against The Most High (numbers 5:11-31).
27And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
Now Paul in he's letter are trying to explain this to the dispersed that they are free from the law and can now freely serve God through the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ and enter into marriage covenant again by He's sacrifice. This is the Mystery of the Gospel and what Paul taught to them in he's letters. Please carefully read romans 7:1-12, He is speaking to those WHO KNOW THE LAW.
Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while herhusband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.God's Law is Holy7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Who could now boast in the law that they were still married to God ? By what works ? In Jesus Christ there is No difference, all can now come to God, being justified freely by his grace through He's redemption, and must enter through the new covenant for all have come short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Now this is why Peter warned in 2 Peter 3:15-18 warns the disciples that some things in Paul's letters are hard to be understood which the unstable and unlearned twist into teaching lawlessness, but they beforehand knowing this should not be led astray and loose their own stability.
I really hope you look into this and re-read Paul's letters, and you will clearly understand Paul's speech to the Churches.
1 Peter 2:2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jeremiah 3: 14 14Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
Deuteronomy 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. 3And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
They were also under the curse of adultery by committing adultery against The Most High (numbers 5:11-31).
27And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
Now Paul in he's letter are trying to explain this to the dispersed that they are free from the law and can now freely serve God through the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ and enter into marriage covenant again by He's sacrifice. This is the Mystery of the Gospel and what Paul taught to them in he's letters. Please carefully read romans 7:1-12, He is speaking to those WHO KNOW THE LAW.
Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while herhusband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.God's Law is Holy7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Who could now boast in the law that they were still married to God ? By what works ? In Jesus Christ there is No difference, all can now come to God, being justified freely by his grace through He's redemption, and must enter through the new covenant for all have come short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Now this is why Peter warned in 2 Peter 3:15-18 warns the disciples that some things in Paul's letters are hard to be understood which the unstable and unlearned twist into teaching lawlessness, but they beforehand knowing this should not be led astray and loose their own stability.
I really hope you look into this and re-read Paul's letters, and you will clearly understand Paul's speech to the Churches.
1 Peter 2:2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jeremiah 3: 14 14Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
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in simple term at the time of jesus and the apostles, the law of the land was controlled by the romans.
even with simple logic , they could not follow the full law. given the romans law outranked the jewish law.
.25 But when they had stretched him out for the whips, Paul said to the centurion who was standing by, "Is it lawful for you to flog a man who is a Roman citizen and uncondemned?"26 When the centurion heard this, he went to the tribune and said to him, "What are you about to do? For this man is a Roman citizen."27 So the tribune came and said to him, "Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?" And he said, "Yes."28 The tribune answered, "I bought this citizenship for a large sum." Paul said, "But I am a citizen by birth."29 So those who were about to examine him withdrew from him immediately, and the tribune also was afraid, for he realized that Paul was a Roman citizen and that he had bound him.Acts 22:
it was still held by the non christian jew, at that time, that god would bring the white horse into play. but they missed the signs. etc
even with simple logic , they could not follow the full law. given the romans law outranked the jewish law.
.25 But when they had stretched him out for the whips, Paul said to the centurion who was standing by, "Is it lawful for you to flog a man who is a Roman citizen and uncondemned?"26 When the centurion heard this, he went to the tribune and said to him, "What are you about to do? For this man is a Roman citizen."27 So the tribune came and said to him, "Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?" And he said, "Yes."28 The tribune answered, "I bought this citizenship for a large sum." Paul said, "But I am a citizen by birth."29 So those who were about to examine him withdrew from him immediately, and the tribune also was afraid, for he realized that Paul was a Roman citizen and that he had bound him.Acts 22:
it was still held by the non christian jew, at that time, that god would bring the white horse into play. but they missed the signs. etc
the blind again miss , when was the gentile, give the law. (acts 15)
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles)
at this point in history, there is two ministries being addressed, two sets of people being told about what jesus christ has done. etc
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles)
at this point in history, there is two ministries being addressed, two sets of people being told about what jesus christ has done. etc
would you like to address anything else on my post. given you seem baffled about a white horse and it meaning. etc
if you don t know about a white horse , i would recommend read rev.
Revelation 6: The Seven Seals
1 Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, "Come!"2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.Revelation 6:
who would the non christian jews want conquered,
yet miss death being conquered by a saviour. etc
if you don t know about a white horse , i would recommend read rev.
Revelation 6: The Seven Seals
1 Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, "Come!"2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.Revelation 6:
who would the non christian jews want conquered,
yet miss death being conquered by a saviour. etc
You do err, not knowing the scriptures. Acts 15 is not about teaching not to keep the law but allowing the unlearned to congregate with them in the synagogues where the scriptures is taught. Sinners were not allowed into the congregation but the exception was ruled when people who believe in Christ could come and learn the gospel and to hear the Law. In the land of Israel in old time they already had moses preached everywhere so this was not a problem. The newcomers were commanded to abstain from certain things in order to come and learn the the law and the gospel. The discussion really was about if they were allowed to come unless they were already keeping the law of God, which the Apostles never commanded.
Yes Paul was sent to preach the gospel to the uncircumcised , but it was the SAME gospel. There is only One Faith, One Lord, and One Baptism(Ephe 4:5). There is ONLY one way to the Father and it is the same for all. He is not a respecter of persons! It is not the "gospel of Paul" and then the "gospel of Jesus", it is the ONE gospel. Jesus Christ commanded us to repent and Obey the law, and so did Paul.
Your post is an example of eisegesis where you inject your own opinion into the word, which clearly is not there. You need to understand the underlying problem and comprehend what is being discussed in acts 15. The scripture is not contrary to itself and God is not the author of confusion.
Eisegesis vs Exegesis :
The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.
Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.
Yes Paul was sent to preach the gospel to the uncircumcised , but it was the SAME gospel. There is only One Faith, One Lord, and One Baptism(Ephe 4:5). There is ONLY one way to the Father and it is the same for all. He is not a respecter of persons! It is not the "gospel of Paul" and then the "gospel of Jesus", it is the ONE gospel. Jesus Christ commanded us to repent and Obey the law, and so did Paul.
Your post is an example of eisegesis where you inject your own opinion into the word, which clearly is not there. You need to understand the underlying problem and comprehend what is being discussed in acts 15. The scripture is not contrary to itself and God is not the author of confusion.
Eisegesis vs Exegesis :
The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.
Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.
Nice to meet you Dan_473!
Thanks for writing.
I maintain that the Scriptures require that we (Christians) grow in faithful obedience to the Torah of the covenants in which we participate...and that includes the Torah of Moses.
And yes, I oppose "legalism".
But let's define "legalism": LEGALISM = seeking justification through law (without faith)
If you define it differently, let me know, and we'll talk about that definition too.
Paul opposed legalism, as I've defined the term. (Gal. 5:4-5).
Paul also obeyed Torah (Ac. 21), which is a Torah-obedient example which we should imitate (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).
You wrote: “It seems to me, and I mean this very politely, that the gentile lawkeepers I've met keep the law as long as it's not an inconvenience.”
My response: I see your point. That may be true. Perhaps every gentile lawkeeper you’ve met has been inconsistent and arbitrary in their theology and/or practice.
But, I maintain that our theology and practice should be derived from Scripture itself (not from whatever we see others doing).
And, Scripture commands Torah. So, I seek to obey Torah (as much as is presently possible and proper in this present diaspora), even if it’s “inconvenient”.
You see, many Christians arbitrarily pick-and-choose only select Torah portions to obey. But arbitrary picking-and-choosing is surely not an acceptable way to decide what to obey.
Other Christians try to force a complete wedge between OT law and NT law…but such an effort is truly unscriptural.
So, the only reasonable option is: Obey as much as is presently possible, knowing that 100% of Torah will again be obeyed in the future (Dt. 30:1-8).
This way, I’m not arbitrary, not inconsistent, and not forcing an unscriptural wedge between testaments.
Make sense?
You wrote: “when the lxx was translated, they used 'the lord' whenever the YHWH was found.
the nt writers continued this practice when quoting the ot.
so it seems reasonable, to me, to continue the practice of the nt writers and use 'the lord' when translating the nt.”
My response: No…actually…the LXX Septuagint translators did not use “the lord”…because that would be English, and I truly doubt they knew English!
I think you actually probably meant to say that the LXX translators used something like “kurious” (G2962) which translates as “lord” in English.
So sure…use “lord” if you like…but don’t forget that our God actually has a NAME! His name is YHVH (that is, the tetragrammaton), not merely Heb. “adon” (H113) which also comes through as “lord” in English.
I think someone was telling me not to use YHVH, but to use “lord” in English…but such English usage is ambiguous, since Heb. “adon” also comes through as “lord” in English…and it’s important to YHVH that we actually know his NAME (Jer. 16:21), not merely his title.
And if it's important to YHVH...then it's important to me too.
Now then…what do you do?
- Seek maximal Torah-obedience.
- Arbitrarily pick-and-choose selective Torah-obedience.
- Non-arbitrarily select Torah portions for obedience (say, by picking only the “moral” Torah portions)
- Completely disregard Torah…focusing only on the NT.
I maintain that most Christians typically choose 2, 3, or 4…
BUT, I also maintain that 1 is the truly Biblical position advocated in Scripture, as commanded by the Father, Son, Spirit, Pentateuch, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Apostles, and Epistles…even in Revelation.
=====> So what do you do? 1? 2? 3? Or 4?
This is a VERY important question for EVERYONE to answer…regardless of what position you take.
After all, you’ll give account of yourself at the judgment seat…so it might be worth spending a few minutes actually thinking about something like this!
blessings…
BibleGuy
Galatians 3:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:24-26 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 4:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Hebrews 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
James 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Do not commit spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus who gave His life for us and go back to the law. Romans 7:1-6
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:24-26 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 4:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Hebrews 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
James 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Do not commit spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus who gave His life for us and go back to the law. Romans 7:1-6
Hello,
And here's the link that disconfirms Grace777x70 and his "IRTL" methodology:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136719-house-cornelius-law-7.html#post2638974
I could address the same old issues he raises (yet again!)...but he won't address my counter-arguments which he can't answer...he'll just ignore them (or manifest other "IRTL" responses) and continue acting like everything is ok with his position...confidently promoting the theology he is evidently unable to defend in light of the objections I have repeatedly brought to him.
I could bring up (YET AGAIN!) the Heb. "zanah" objection (Ex. 34:15-16) to his erroneous conception of "spiritual adultery"...but I've learned not to expect his defense in light of such objections.
I could bring up (YET AGAIN!) the fact that the Pauline conception of sin (sin=Torah-violation), taken in conjunction with Rom. 6:15 (where Paul says "don't sin"), immediately contradicts Grace777x70's interpretation of Rom. 7:1-6 (see Rom. 7:7).
But I'm learning not to expect a defense of his position...
And I'm sure we can look forward to that great picture of people wearing t-shirts another dozen times the next few days?
And maybe we'll see some more links to the Joyfully Growing In Grace (JGIG) website again as well...even though I already raised 24 objections which Grace777x70 won't adequately address (and which JGIG has not addressed either, to my knowledge).
Ok...I'm venting....sorry....
Sigh...
I got an idea!
Here's the link: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136719-house-cornelius-law-7.html#post2638974
Here's the link: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136719-house-cornelius-law-7.html#post2638974
Here's the link: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136719-house-cornelius-law-7.html#post2638974
Sorry....couldn't resist a little humor!
blessings...
BibleGuy
PS I love you anyway buddy! But if you actually DEFEND the JGIG viewpoint (which you TOLD us to bookmark, because it was so great) against my objections, then maybe we can actually start COMMUNICATING again...that would be really nice!
What can I say...propaganda stagnates communication...
And here's the link that disconfirms Grace777x70 and his "IRTL" methodology:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136719-house-cornelius-law-7.html#post2638974
I could address the same old issues he raises (yet again!)...but he won't address my counter-arguments which he can't answer...he'll just ignore them (or manifest other "IRTL" responses) and continue acting like everything is ok with his position...confidently promoting the theology he is evidently unable to defend in light of the objections I have repeatedly brought to him.
I could bring up (YET AGAIN!) the Heb. "zanah" objection (Ex. 34:15-16) to his erroneous conception of "spiritual adultery"...but I've learned not to expect his defense in light of such objections.
I could bring up (YET AGAIN!) the fact that the Pauline conception of sin (sin=Torah-violation), taken in conjunction with Rom. 6:15 (where Paul says "don't sin"), immediately contradicts Grace777x70's interpretation of Rom. 7:1-6 (see Rom. 7:7).
But I'm learning not to expect a defense of his position...
And I'm sure we can look forward to that great picture of people wearing t-shirts another dozen times the next few days?
And maybe we'll see some more links to the Joyfully Growing In Grace (JGIG) website again as well...even though I already raised 24 objections which Grace777x70 won't adequately address (and which JGIG has not addressed either, to my knowledge).
Ok...I'm venting....sorry....
Sigh...
I got an idea!
Here's the link: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136719-house-cornelius-law-7.html#post2638974
Here's the link: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136719-house-cornelius-law-7.html#post2638974
Here's the link: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136719-house-cornelius-law-7.html#post2638974
Sorry....couldn't resist a little humor!
blessings...
BibleGuy
PS I love you anyway buddy! But if you actually DEFEND the JGIG viewpoint (which you TOLD us to bookmark, because it was so great) against my objections, then maybe we can actually start COMMUNICATING again...that would be really nice!
What can I say...propaganda stagnates communication...
Grace777x70, the verses in Galatians you keep on posting is talking about the same thing I wrote about in post 143# Which is the same answer still:
You need to take it slow and go back and read my posts about the mystery of the gospel. Paul was addressing the Greek speaking Israelites from the House of Israel. The House of Israel had been dispersed to the nations and given a divorce from the Most High. Now the law states that if a woman is divorced from a man and go and marry another man, and the latter husband dies or she is again divorced, she can not remarry the first husband(Deut 24:1-4). This is the case of the Greek speaking Israelites from the House of Israel. Now when Jesus had died on the tree and resurrected they were Freed from that law. They were no longer under the curse of the law and could remarry again into covenant through Christ who died for them. Hence, they were not UNDER THE LAW, or the CURSE of the law by not permitting them to come back to The Most High which was commonly taught.
Deuteronomy 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. 3And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;4Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
They were also under the curse of adultery by committing adultery against The Most High (numbers 5:11-31).
27And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
Now Paul in he's letter are trying to explain this to the dispersed that they are free from the law and can now freely serve God through the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ and enter into marriage covenant again by He's sacrifice. This is the Mystery of the Gospel and what Paul taught to them in he's letters. Please carefully read romans 7:1-12, He is speaking to those WHO KNOW THE LAW.
Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jeremiah 3: 14 14Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while herhusband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another,even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.God's Law is Holy7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Who could now boast in the law that they were still married to God ? By what works ? In Jesus Christ there is No difference, all can now come to God, being justified freely by his grace through He's redemption, and must enter through the new covenant for all have come short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Now this is why Peter warned in 2 Peter 3:15-18 warns the disciples that some things in Paul's letters are hard to be understood which the unstable and unlearned twist into teaching lawlessness, but they beforehand knowing this should not be led astray and loose their own stability.
I really hope you look into this and re-read Paul's letters, and you will clearly understand Paul's speech to the Churches.
1 Peter 2:2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Lets put aside childish things and deal with the scripture as it is.
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
You need to take it slow and go back and read my posts about the mystery of the gospel. Paul was addressing the Greek speaking Israelites from the House of Israel. The House of Israel had been dispersed to the nations and given a divorce from the Most High. Now the law states that if a woman is divorced from a man and go and marry another man, and the latter husband dies or she is again divorced, she can not remarry the first husband(Deut 24:1-4). This is the case of the Greek speaking Israelites from the House of Israel. Now when Jesus had died on the tree and resurrected they were Freed from that law. They were no longer under the curse of the law and could remarry again into covenant through Christ who died for them. Hence, they were not UNDER THE LAW, or the CURSE of the law by not permitting them to come back to The Most High which was commonly taught.
Deuteronomy 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. 3And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;4Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
They were also under the curse of adultery by committing adultery against The Most High (numbers 5:11-31).
27And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
Now Paul in he's letter are trying to explain this to the dispersed that they are free from the law and can now freely serve God through the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ and enter into marriage covenant again by He's sacrifice. This is the Mystery of the Gospel and what Paul taught to them in he's letters. Please carefully read romans 7:1-12, He is speaking to those WHO KNOW THE LAW.
Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jeremiah 3: 14 14Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while herhusband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another,even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.God's Law is Holy7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Who could now boast in the law that they were still married to God ? By what works ? In Jesus Christ there is No difference, all can now come to God, being justified freely by his grace through He's redemption, and must enter through the new covenant for all have come short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Now this is why Peter warned in 2 Peter 3:15-18 warns the disciples that some things in Paul's letters are hard to be understood which the unstable and unlearned twist into teaching lawlessness, but they beforehand knowing this should not be led astray and loose their own stability.
I really hope you look into this and re-read Paul's letters, and you will clearly understand Paul's speech to the Churches.
1 Peter 2:2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Lets put aside childish things and deal with the scripture as it is.
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
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My position is very clear. GOD witnessed that a new prophet would arise who would bring new law (not what Moses spoke). With a change of priesthood, a change of law was also required, for the law derives from the priesthood. Anything Jesus spoke about the law of Moses to those under the old covenant was while they were still under that covenant. The old covenant, the law, the Levitical priesthood all passed away and became obsolete when the new covenant was cut. We have a new covenant with a new high priest who gives us new law. Simple except for those with ears that cannot hear.
More info on Hebrew Roots for anyone that is interested in this stuff...don't get caught in this mess and just stick with Jesus and what He has done for you in His finished work.
Hebrew Roots Movement – New Covenant or “Renewed” Covenant?
https://joyfullygrowingingrace.word...ts-movement-new-covenant-or-renewed-covenant/
Hebrew Roots Movement – New Covenant or “Renewed” Covenant?
https://joyfullygrowingingrace.word...ts-movement-new-covenant-or-renewed-covenant/
Your objections and conclusions are based on your repeated use of Scriptures that don't say what you say they say or that are out of context.
You consistently attempt to apply Jesus' teaching of the Law to those under Law to New Covenant Believers who are dead to the Law. Then you twist the clear meaning of Rom. 7:1-6 into an interpretation about God being able to remarry Israel who He divorced. I'm well-versed in the teaching and have written an extensive refutation of that and other core teachings in the Law-keeping belief system. Those who are interested can go to the following page:
Your teaching renders the Work of Christ and what it accomplished as nothing and is Torah-centric, not centered on Christ, which classifies what you teach as heresy.
I'm very pressed for time these past two days (one of our children is in treatment at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and we're heading back for the week) - but I'll be back when I can - hopefully tomorrow evening.
It's a joy and a pleasure to defend the Gospel of Grace - the Work of Christ and all that it accomplished on our behalf and for the Kingdom \o/!
'Til we meet again
,
JGIG
You consistently attempt to apply Jesus' teaching of the Law to those under Law to New Covenant Believers who are dead to the Law. Then you twist the clear meaning of Rom. 7:1-6 into an interpretation about God being able to remarry Israel who He divorced. I'm well-versed in the teaching and have written an extensive refutation of that and other core teachings in the Law-keeping belief system. Those who are interested can go to the following page:
Your teaching renders the Work of Christ and what it accomplished as nothing and is Torah-centric, not centered on Christ, which classifies what you teach as heresy.
I'm very pressed for time these past two days (one of our children is in treatment at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and we're heading back for the week) - but I'll be back when I can - hopefully tomorrow evening.
It's a joy and a pleasure to defend the Gospel of Grace - the Work of Christ and all that it accomplished on our behalf and for the Kingdom \o/!
'Til we meet again
,JGIG
Yes everybody! Do not get caught up with this mess about actually Obeying the Father by keeping He's commandments and living righteous and holy lives. You see Jesus Christ have now given you a free license to sin so you can now use him as often as you like as an excuse to live your life in hypocrisy as much as you like after your own personal book of the law. Feel free to cherry pick what ever scripture you like and just keep on repeating Jesus takes my place, we don't have to obey that cursed law of bondage which forces you to live holy and righteous lives, I am not responsible for my actions! Jesus came to do away with all that and free me from having to keep the Fathers commandments. I am now free in the spirit to do what ever I like and there is no more evil law of bondage that can judge me any more when I keep on breaking it. I can finally live the life I have always wanted and I will do what ever I personally think is right at any moment because there are no longer any established righteous commandments. Its all about love now, you are free to love yourself as you see fit. On the day of judgment when all are to be judged I am gonna use Jesus as my excuse for living the way I want to and for all my sinful ways I never repented from but God is going to judge all the other people for their sins, BUT NOT ME because I get a free pass and am no longer responsible for my actions. Jesus takes my place for my sins and all the other sinners can go to hell! He kept the law so I don't have to! I deserve all this because I have mental assent that Jesus is going to take my place for my sinful life of transgression because I have mental assent belief that he will.
Warning: Sarcasm intended.
Warning: Sarcasm intended.
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Yes everybody! Do not get caught up with this mess about actually Obeying the Father by keeping He's commandments and living righteous and holy lives. You see Jesus Christ have now given you a free license to sin so you can now use him as often as you like as an excuse to live your life in hypocrisy as much as you like after your own personal book of the law. Feel free to cherry pick what ever scripture you like and just keep on repeating Jesus takes my place, we don't have to obey that cursed law of bondage which forces you to live holy and righteous lives, I am not responsible for my actions! Jesus came to do away with all that and free me from having to keep the Fathers commandments. I am now free in the spirit to do what ever I like and there is no more evil law of bondage that can judge me any more when I keep on breaking it. I can finally live the life I have always wanted and I will do what ever I personally think is right at any moment because there are no longer any established righteous commandments. Its all about love now, you are free to love yourself as you see fit. On the day of judgment when all are to be judged I am gonna use Jesus as my excuse for living the way I want to and for all my sinful ways I never repented from but God is going to judge all the other people for their sins, BUT NOT ME because I get a free pass and am no longer responsible for my actions. Jesus takes my place for my sins and all the other sinners can go to hell! He kept the law so I don't have to! I deserve all this because I have mental assent that Jesus is going to take my place for my sinful life of transgression because I have mental assent belief that he will.
Warning: Sarcasm intended.
Warning: Sarcasm intended.
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord [is, there is] freedom. 2 Corinthians 3:17
(I will try to answer your post in parts)
for 'legalistic', I was thinking #1 from here
Legalistic | Define Legalistic at Dictionary.com
strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, especially to the letter rather than the spirit.
a lawkeeping christian told me he liked the idea of observing the command not to kindle a fire in his dwelling on the sabbath, but he lived where it got cold in the winter, so he made an exception. he said he didn't want to be legalistic.
he also didn't think moving to a warm climate like Israel (so he wouldn't have to build a fire) would be a good idea.
for 'legalistic', I was thinking #1 from here
Legalistic | Define Legalistic at Dictionary.com
strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, especially to the letter rather than the spirit.
a lawkeeping christian told me he liked the idea of observing the command not to kindle a fire in his dwelling on the sabbath, but he lived where it got cold in the winter, so he made an exception. he said he didn't want to be legalistic.
he also didn't think moving to a warm climate like Israel (so he wouldn't have to build a fire) would be a good idea.