Why Joseph Prince is a Cancerous Growth within God's People

[Depleted]

Yeah, we should probably quit capitalizing Scripture and Salvation, too. LOL (Sorry, but I will probably always capitalize it, along with the word, Bible.)

I really have been working on decapping bible. As hard as not putting two spaces between sentences. lol

 

[ladylynn]

I'm for those who understand that grace is not merely the dissemination of some commodity, principle or empowerment, that can then be "applied". As if Gods actions are ever detached from the manifestation of who He is in Himself. Grace is the active expression of the very essence of God Himself, there is no grace of God apart from God.

Amen.,

You said it exactly right! Amen and another Amen.

 

[Depleted]

What is all this talk about grace being a god? The grace of God that bringeth salvation., grace is describing the LOVE of God. Grace is the kind of love only God gives that could bring salvation. (God IS Love) Grace begins with God and that is the only way we can understand Him and what He did for us., by getting a "revelation" and understanding of "HOW" He loves us. BY GRACE; not by our earning it. Alleluia!!!!!!! It's a time to celebrate!!! . We love Him because He first loved us. We have all we have in Christ because of the Love of God. That "love" is described as unmerited.,unearned., and unconditional.

That is the kind of love that the word GRACE describes. The Gospel of grace is the love of God. Everything is about the love of God IN Christ.

So we who are alllllllllllllllllwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyys talking about the gospel of grace are talking about the love of God in Christ. That is the gospel. We are to BEHOLD what MANNER of LOVE the Father has given unto us. we are to behold this manner of love and we do. Amen. GRACE is the manner in which God loves us., He does it based on Him and what He has overflowing in Him. His love is not based on us and who we are or what we do. Only God can do graciously all things for and to us. He does it graciously and UNCONDITIONALLY without our meriting any of it....

How is that knowing the love of God making grace a God???? You guys are so suspicious about so many things you don't accept the word grace; God's love., with allll of it's many and deeper ramifications. We celebrate and talk about and lean on and comfort ourselves IN His love for us., and are able to survive because of the manner of love the Father has given in Christ Jesus and His love is described by the word GRACE. The "way" God loves is not the "way" humans love. God's love is unmerited., unearned, unconditional in every possible way. The word GRACE describes God's love in and for us. It's un-worldly and un-human. Without Christ we are void of that kind of love and do not have understanding.

So when you hear the words "gospel of grace" and call it another gospel, I don't understand yours and others peoples reasoning. Remember that God so LOVED the world that He gave His only begotten Son., Because of God's (grace) the "way" He loves us which is ---graciously., which means He does it -unconditionally. He gives it with unmerited unearned favor. He gives His love unconditionally. God's love=the word 'grace' and that kind of gracious love sent Jesus (God's kind of love sent Jesus) Not human love, but God's love as described by the word;GRACE.

If someone is mean forinstance., the love of God (grace) teaches us how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. We are able to understand because Christ was our example.,we don't give back what they deserve., we give them what they don't deserve...unearned unworthy of love like God gives us In Christ. That is grace;unearned unmerited kindness toward someone because of the grace of God. Jesus brought grace and truth where Moses brought in the law. Jesus died for the ungodly., not the godly. That is grace/love in action. The law is out, grace and truth are in. When we deal with people we deal with them according to "grace which is the kind of love God gives us" and we don't deal with people according to "law the way Moses taught" We deal with people AND ourselves the way God does., with His kind of love which is described by the word (GRACE) Welcome to the new covenant Lynn.

Yup, pretty much what I was saying, Grace as become your god.

 

[crossnote]

God is love, true...Scripture says so.
No where do I read that God is grace.

Grace is only possible because justice was met ( God's wrath was poured out on Christ) in our stead.
Ask the fallen angels who sinned if God is grace.

 

[ladylynn]

Yup, pretty much what I was saying, Grace as become your god.

 

[ladylynn]

God is love, true...Scripture says so.
No where do I read that God is grace.

Grace is only possible because justice was met ( God's wrath was poured out on Christ) in our stead.
Ask the fallen angels who sinned if God is grace.

Well, I don't read in the Bible where God has unmerited favor for angels. God didn't send Jesus to die for the angels. God so love us that way. It seems that Jesus created the world and put man on it. Man is His creation created in His image. He has a special kind of love for us that goes beyond being worthy. He makes us worthy by giving it unconditionally without our earning it or even understanding it.

But when we do begin to understand this kind of love and use it., it causes us to be constrained., to be motivated., to rest., to trust., and to be secure. We know that God's love is not like anyone elses in this world. (except those who are learning about it) And not only that, God proved His love to us by sending His most precious Son to us, His sinful creation that He loved and wanted redeemed. How thankful we should be for the grace of God. Even the angels desire to look into this kind of salvation and yet for all their beauty and even though they are God's creation too., they are not made in His image the way we are. We are loved for higher reasons than we even know.

Maybe that is why grace is such a hard concept for humans to understand. It's unworldly. Works we understand., we get that word. But grace.... nope.

 

[JGIG]

well, when the very title of the op is name calling, I'm not sure how it can get better from there

I have to laugh, all the stuff some people are screaming at, is the very thing they are doing themselves.

Yet they carry on and on, thinking no one notices . . .

All we can do is keep pointing people to Jesus and the Good News of

• Who Jesus is
• What He came to do
• What that actually accomplished, and
• Who those who put their faith and trust in Christ are in Him.

-JGIG

 

[crossnote]

Well, I don't read in the Bible where God has unmerited favor for angels. God didn't send Jesus to die for the angels. God so love us that way. It seems that Jesus created the world and put man on it. Man is His creation created in His image. He has a special kind of love for us that goes beyond being worthy. He makes us worthy by giving it unconditionally without our earning it or even understanding it.

But when we do begin to understand this kind of love and use it., it causes us to be constrained., to be motivated., to rest., to trust., and to be secure. We know that God's love is not like anyone elses in this world. (except those who are learning about it) And not only that, God proved His love to us by sending His most precious Son to us, His sinful creation that He loved and wanted redeemed. How thankful we should be for the grace of God. Even the angels desire to look into this kind of salvation and yet for all their beauty and even though they are God's creation too., they are not made in His image the way we are. We are loved for higher reasons than we even know.

Maybe that is why grace is such a hard concept for humans to understand. It's unworldly. Works we understand., we get that word. But grace.... nope.

My point is that grace is not God's essence as some are claiming like love is. God is gracious towards us on account of Christ (nothing in us) but was not towards the fallen angels...at least He did not become an angel to take upon Himself the wrath due them.

 

[Angela53510]

Well not gonna argue...merely saying when I use Grace I often mean Jesus who is Grace. And don't assume what I know or do not know about grammar, I have a background in linguistics, speak fluent Italian, french and English.

I also speak fluent French, I used to teach FSL and immersion, as well as knowing German and Spanish. More recently I learned Biblical Greek and Hebrew. Growing up, I was probably the last generation of Canadians who were drilled in grammar - both English and French. And Greek is all grammar, along with vocabulary. Which is why I did so well in Greek in Seminary and now that I am taking Intermediate Grammar. I remember how many dropped out of Greek, because they had no background in grammar, which is very sad, I think. My sister is 8 years younger than me, and she had no grammar and no math, and it hindered her in a lot of things - although she did become a lawyer!

So no, grace is not capitalized, unless it is a proper noun that stands alone. And when you make it stand alone, you are separating it from God. Grace is an amazing gift, there is no doubt about it. But a gift is a common noun, and the gift is not the giver - the giver is God and he alone deserves the capitalization for being a proper noun - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Which I believe is part of the whole point of this thread.

 

[thepsalmist]

I also speak fluent French, I used to teach FSL and immersion, as well as knowing German and Spanish. More recently I learned Biblical Greek and Hebrew. Growing up, I was probably the last generation of Canadians who were drilled in grammar - both English and French. And Greek is all grammar, along with vocabulary. Which is why I did so well in Greek in Seminary and now that I am taking Intermediate Grammar. I remember how many dropped out of Greek, because they had no background in grammar, which is very sad, I think. My sister is 8 years younger than me, and she had no grammar and no math, and it hindered her in a lot of things - although she did become a lawyer!

So no, grace is not capitalized, unless it is a proper noun that stands alone. And when you make it stand alone, you are separating it from God. Grace is an amazing gift, there is no doubt about it. But a gift is a common noun, and the gift is not the giver - the giver is God and he alone deserves the capitalization for being a proper noun - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Which I believe is part of the whole point of this thread.

I am in agreement with your conclusion Angela. We do not worship the creation ( small c) but the Creator (capital C) ... nor do we worship grace (small g) but the propitiation of that grace God, (capital G)

 

[vic1980]

Not a fan of Joseph P, Nor Dr Brown . But heard a few sermons on them to examine there doctrine since this is the hot topic in the BDF., I would perfer to avoid anyone that teaches, after i come to Christ i do not need to repent.

[video=youtube;y8YiHSQQ7jw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8YiHSQQ7jw[/video]

Interesting....

Romans 2:4-5 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God

Shalom

 

[vic1980]

Confession of sin and repentance should always go hand and hand, or is it i could repent and not confess of it ???

What a strange world this is indeed, feel like a stranger in this world.

 

[vic1980]

I would perfer to avoid anyone that teaches, after i come to Christ i do not need to confess or repent.

The Lord sent message to the 7 Churches in Revelation , some to repent.

 

[ladylynn]

My point is that grace is not God's essence as some are claiming like love is. God is gracious towards us on account of Christ (nothing in us) but was not towards the fallen angels...at least He did not become an angel to take upon Himself the wrath due them.

What.. What are you saying crossnote? God is love and He tells us to drop our ideas of what we think love is ... and we are to instead adopt His definition of love (by the renewal of our minds) because our way of loving is not His way. His way is known by grace through faith in Christ. Unearned unmerited unconditonal love given to all who recieve Jesus.






God's love by definition is motivated by Him and NOT by the actions of those He loves. (GRACE) We are not to love people based on the outward appearance either. (GRACE) GRACE describes GOD'S KIND of LOVE and God has gifted us with how we are to love others as He does.... with MUCH GRACE. GRACE;God's LOVE IN ACTION is not common.

We are told to love; for love is of God. We are to know that love is the greatest commandment. Grace is the definition of the kind of love invented by God. Do we need a revelation of this kind of love? YES. Without the love of God we can't do the things of the Spirit. The Bible talks about these things that are to abide., faith hope and love.. but the greatest of these is LOVE

We can not ever be in any way discouraged from sharing and talking about the LOVE AND GRACE of God in Christ with each other. There should never be any dispersions thrown out on ANY declaration of God's love and grace. Again., moses brought the law but Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Is that another gospel? IT IS THE GOSPEL JESUS BROUGHT

Sometimes these forums are worth taking a vacation from.

What is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man that You visit him? For You have made him a little lower than the angels, and You have crowned him with glory and honor. You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet.
- Psalm 8:4–6


Who redeems your life from destruction, who crowns you with LOVINGKINDNESS and tender mercies, who satisfies your mouth with good things, so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.
- Psalm 103:4–5


For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
- Jeremiah 29:11


And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have LOVED them as You have loved Me.
- John 17:22–23


So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
- Acts 2:46–47


Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.
- Jeremiah 33:3


...For if by the one man’s offence many died, much more the GRACE of God and the gift by the GRACE of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
- Romans 5:15


For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under GRACE.
- Romans 6:14


For if by the one man’s offence death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of GRACE and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
- Romans 5:17


For you know the GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
- 2 Corinthians 8:9


And God is able to make all GRACE abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.
- 2 Corinthians 9:8


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
- Ephesians 1:3


In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His GRACE which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
- Ephesians 1:7–8


Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has LOVED us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by GRACE, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.
- 2 Thessalonians 2:16–17


And the GRACE of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and LOVE which are in Christ Jesus.
- 1 Timothy 1:14


Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of GRACE, that we may obtain mercy and find GRACE to help in time of need.
- Hebrews 4:16


But when the KINDNESS and the LOVE of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, that having been justified by His GRACE we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
- Titus 3:4–7


GRACE and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,
- 2 Peter 1:2–3

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I would perfer to avoid anyone that teaches, after i come to Christ i do not need to confess or repent.

The Lord sent message to the 7 Churches in Revelation , some to repent.

To GOD,once Is enough,but we might offend our neighbor and may need to confess and repent of what we did wrong to them.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Confession of sin and repentance should always go hand and hand, or is it i could repent and not confess of it ???

What a strange world this is indeed, feel like a stranger in this world.

What If a person commits sin In the future that they are not consciously aware of commiting,should the person feel that GOD would need to hear them confess and repent again In order to be forgiven?

Seems like a heavy burden to feel like GOD has not forgiven me unless I keep asking GOD to forgive me.

It would sound like the person Is more sin conscious than being conscious of their right standing before GOD.

 

[PeterJens]

What If a person commits sin In the future that they are not consciously aware of commiting,should the person feel that GOD would need to hear them confess and repent again In order to be forgiven?

Seems like a heavy burden to feel like GOD has not forgiven me unless I keep asking GOD to forgive me.

It would sound like the person Is more sin conscious than being conscious of their right standing before GOD.

Sin is poison, not some action we can live with. This language says toxic sin we can just live with, no problems.

Redemption is about taking a fallen building and rebuilding it. A partially rebuilt building is just that, a ruin unless it still is being worked on. Sin is the symtom of the disease of the separation between love and our ourselves. We need to work on relationships and righteousness and purity will take its place. You become righteous and pure because you care, which overcomes and puts in place all the mixed emotions we are full of. Having an emotion or expression is not sin, it is how we express choice based on the offer of emotions before us. Our choices define who we are, not the feelings we have which are the expression of life and keeps us connected with ourselves and everyone else.

For many it is these feelings they feel is impurity, rather than the expression of existance. We can choose how to channel or change our reactions. When satan asked Jesus to turn the rocks into food, Jesus's answer was the bread of life was to do the will of God, Jesus's had the desire and feelings but chose a different course.

Going deeper a beautiful woman can bring about a response, but you can choose to put that as simply a reaction to her form, not a real relationship, which is much more complex and deeper, which is still completely unknown. Many have discovered by following the emotional impulse they destroy marriages, families, jobs etc. just because of a small urge.
Worse still the urge normally founders on the incompatibility of the two people, which is just death.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God is not grace? WHAT??????????

1. God knew mankind would reject him, Become his enemy, Want nothing to do with him, Yet God created them inspite of these FACTS
2. God knew man would replace him with other Gods, Even making them self God. Yet he still created them
3. God knew man would take his truth,, twist it, distort it, and make false truths, and kill each over over these truths, and many men would follow these false truth (more so than will follow his exact truth) Yet God still created them
4. God knew man would rape, pillage, murder, do unspeakable things to their fellow humans so horrific even the heathen is horrified at the insanity, Yet God still created them
5. God created a nation, Called this nation his chosen, Knowing they would reject their creator, they would worship other gods, and want nothing to do with the god who created them, Yet God created them anyway, and allowed them for centuries to continue in his sin (slow to wrath) Because of his unfailing grace
6. God is so graceful that he continues to let evil run the world. because he is willing that non, even some of these evil people, should perish, but all should come to eternal life (see Saul/Paul)

I think people miss the picture of what God is, God is love, God is grace, God is mercy, God is forgiveness, He is the complete picture of what these things are. And we should follow him, and become these things ourselves.

 

[Grace777x70]

You were right lynn..I can't stay away from the confusing and twisted things being said. Trying to separate grace from Jesus is like trying to separate the wet from water. I too agree that grace should not be capitalized ( however I do understand the reason one might do it but for the sake of it being a stumbling block to others I don't do it nor have I ever in the past )

I do agree too however that young Christians could get mixed up and not put their focus in on Christ and just a mental concept because they are not able to understand that Jesus is grace personified as it is all Him. Us older Christians should be able to see that Jesus is grace and love and it is impossible to separate them out.

Here are some thoughts on trying to separate the wet from the water and grace from Jesus. Anyone that takes the time to read the scriptures below would agree that it is impossible to separate grace from Jesus Himself as it is impossible to separate love from Him. Jesus is called the Truth. Does that make it wrong to say Jesus is Truth now?

Why is grace another name for Jesus?

1. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus (Acts 20:24, 2 Th 1:8).

1. We are saved by grace (Eph 2:5); we are saved by Jesus (2 Tim 1:9).

1. We are justified by grace (Rom 3:24); we are justified by Jesus (Rom 4:25).

1. Grace helps us; Jesus helps us (Heb 4:16).

1. God’s grace offers salvation to all (Tit 2:11); Jesus is the Savior of all (1 Tim 4:10).

1. God is love and love that stoops (or comes down) is grace; Jesus is the Father’s love come down (John 16:28).

1. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9) and the Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29).

1. All the blessings of God come to us by grace alone and all of them are found in Jesus (Eph 1:3).

1. Grace is a teacher (Tit 2:12); Jesus is a teacher (Matt 8:19).

1. Grace reigns (Rom 5:21); Jesus reigns (1 Cor 15:25).

1. When the Galatians cut themselves off from Christ, they cut themselves off from grace (Gal 5:4).

1. In the same way that God is love, Jesus is grace (see 2 Cor 13:14).

1. The Bible speaks of “the love of God” and “the grace of Jesus” ( 1Cor 16:23, Rev 22:21).

1. God’s grace is given in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor 1:4, Eph 1:6, 2 Tim 1:9, 2:1). Jesus is the embodiment of God’s grace.

1. Here are two Biblical blessings that say the same thing: “The Lord be with you” and “grace be with you” (2 Tim 4:22, Phm 1:25).

1. The Old Testament prophets foretold the coming of Jesus and the coming of grace (1 Pet 1:10). These weren’t two separate events. Grace came when Jesus came (John 1:17).

1. To the degree that we know Jesus, we enjoy God’s grace (2 Pet 1:2)

1. Jesus is the word of God and the word of his grace which can build you up (Act 20:32)

Why does it matter?

This matters a great deal because grace will not bear fruit in your life if you think it is merely a concept or a doctrine. As Judah Smith said recently:

We shudder at the term grace because it has been so maligned, so abused, so misrepresented. We see grace as the get out of jail free card. “Oh yeah, I love me some grace man. I get my jiggy on in the weekend then I come back on Sunday and get me my grace on.” No, that’s not grace. You’ve met a concept, not a Person.”

I regularly encounter people who don’t know what grace is so they misuse it or they attack it. Just the other day someone wrote to tell me that too much preaching on grace leads to wrongdoing. That’s simply not possible when you have a proper understanding of grace. Grace no more leads to wrongdoing than love for your spouse will lead you to Ashley Madison.

The other day I happened to catch a prominent TV evangelist tearing my stuff to shreds on his program. (Watched by millions!) It’s nice to be noticed but I was saddened that he was using his platform to disparage the only thing that can empower people to live well.

I occasionally get asked by pastors to come and preach a sermon or run a seminar on grace because they recognize it as a hot topic. It makes me wonder what they’re preaching when they’re not preaching grace. Jesus is not a “hot topic” or a buzzword to be slotted into your teaching schedule. He’s the Lover of our souls and the Center of Everything!

What grace is not

Grace is not a doctrine or a podcast or a tweet. Grace is not a season to walk through or a midweek seminar. Grace is not one aspect of God’s character to be balanced against his other, less gracious aspects.
Grace is a Person who loves you, died for you, and now lives for you. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus – there is no difference.

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you!

Here is the link that has more of this article on it for those that are interested.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/09/04/grace-is-a-person/

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well not gonna argue...merely saying when I use Grace I often mean Jesus who is Grace. And don't assume what I know or do not know about grammar, I have a background in linguistics, speak fluent Italian, french and English.

Jesus = grace

Jesus = GOD

Therefore

Grace = GOD