So what about the fourth commandment?

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badger58

Guest
The name"Father" is what I address Him by, hey it worked for Jesus.
Be as little children.
It used to always bug me in church, when prayers were offered, and thee and thou's would pepper the prayer.
Don't people realize that our Father understand every language, as he asked Moses: Who made the tongue? He doesn't give extra points if we speak the king James English, or Hebrew, or Greek, or Aramaic. God could not care less about how you roll your R's.
Come on people! GOD READS THE HEART... I must be the village idiot. How much time and effort shall we put into this argument.
REALLY? GEEPERS CREEPERS OPEN UP YOUR PEEPERS!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Bupkis.

I love my husband because he is kind, loving, honest, has a great sense of humor, smart, beautiful blue eyes, trust me, and trust God more. That is who he is and I love him for it.

The Law is who God is and I love him for that. He is truly like that and is perfect because he is like that.

Stop separating God from whom he is and then cutting him down to just one thing -- his grace. Kind of like saying I only love hubby for his beautiful blue eyes.

Bupkis,

No one is separating God - that is a construct of your own mind. We are just encouraging "believers" in Christ to not go back to the law for life.

Jesus is enough and the law of love and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is all we need. We can trust the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us in all things. We can read the law but we need to have the mindset that Jesus is the fulfillment of it and thus we can see Christ in it. Isn't that wonderful?

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and it is spiritual but we are flesh! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives and lead us to Christ, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

If you feel that this is separating God for some unknown reason - We are allowed to agree to disagree too. Carry on. Bless you!
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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ok, which commandments do you want to throw out?
All the carnal ones.

All the ones you think you can perform by your own will and strength.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Did you know the law was spiritual? Did you know that following carnal concepts of religion is not spiritual?


Hebrews 7:12-16
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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The curse of the law

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good in Romans 7:12 “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” So what was the curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown here in Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.And all the people shall say, Amen.”

The first part of this curse has to do with sin as it is written in Romans 7:10-11 “And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.” Again we see the law was ordained unto life, but the curse came when man could not keep the law because of the weakness of his flesh and sin. So who’s the bad guy here, the law, or sin? If you answered sin then you would be correct.

Now for the second part of the curse, which is swearing to the oath. It is written Galatians 3:10 “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

After Moses had read the law, all the blessings and the curses, the people then bound themselves to the oath by agreeing to keep everything that was written in the law. The word oath in Hebrew can also be defined and shown as the word curse in scripture. And swearing to an oath can also be shown as binding ones soul to a curse as in Nehemiah 10:29 “They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;”

And in Daniel 9:11 “Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.” And here is where the curse came in by swearing themselves to the oath in Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”

And so being unable to perform the vow to God to keep the whole law, because of the weakness of the flesh and of sin, then the curses mentioned in the law were put into effect.

Which is why Jesus said Matthew 5:33-37 “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”


And here again also in James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not,
neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your
yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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the handwriting of requirements


"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,

which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

the last chapter of the last book of the Bible teaches:

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Actually, it is only those who will not keep the ten commandments that are denied access.
Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)


The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?

the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").

But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so.
Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

In addition, let us look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary.
Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)


While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments
by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who
continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that
He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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The Voice

GENESIS 26
[3]Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee,
and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH
WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father;

[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed
all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

[5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge,
MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Abraham was observing to keep Gods 10 commandments
He heard and obeyed Gods "voice".

DEUT. 27
[8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly.

[9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed,
and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God .

[10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and
DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

The voice

DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire:
ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
[13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM,
EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.


ZEPHANIAH 3
[1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
[2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the
LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are ROARING LIONS;
her judges are evening WOLVES; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
[4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary,
THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.

JOHN 10
[27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Also Gods sheep shall also hear His “voice”.

HEBREWS 4 [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they
to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time;
as it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, harden not your hearts.

This was prophecied to happen.

DEUTERONOMY 4
[26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish
from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days
upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.

[27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, and ye shall
be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.

[28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone,
which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.




[30] When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee,
even in THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be OBEDIENT UNTO HIS VOICE;

[31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither
destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
 
D

Depleted

Guest

Bupkis,

No one is separating God - that is a construct of your own mind. We are just encouraging "believers" in Christ to not go back to the law for life.

Jesus is enough and the law of love and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is all we need. We can trust the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us in all things. We can read the law but we need to have the mindset that Jesus is the fulfillment of it and thus we can see Christ in it. Isn't that wonderful?

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and it is spiritual but we are flesh! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives and lead us to Christ, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

If you feel that this is separating God for some unknown reason - We are allowed to agree to disagree too. Carry on. Bless you!
Funny since that "good, holy, spiritual" law is cheating with Christ's wife, as a separate person apart from Christ. And Christ seems not to notice either, but that's a different problem with the picture.
 
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1. Those you follow -- aka the links you provided and other sources -- do have names associated with them.

Seems like someone is in a bad mood. Depleted, I am trying to be courteous, but I am not here to be interrogated. I am under no obligation to answer your list of questions. If you disagree, fine, go with that.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
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-Astronomy observence


"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the
creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley,
The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].
Are you prepared to argue this? I mean, it looks like you've just pulled some random quotes from a website.

A mean sidreal day is 23:56:04. Of course a sidreal day doesn't equal a true solar day and a true solar day isn't constant. Surely an astronomer, even one from 1926, would know this basic fact.

And you don't even begin to address my comment about calendar issues.
 
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jsr1221

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So if somebody is shot on the Sabbath (people get shot each and every day of the week) are they supposed to just lie there and potentially die? Rather than call for a hospital and the police because doctors and cops shouldn't be working?
 

jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
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I would also like to add this... Those of you who go to a restaurant. Or a movie. Or the grocery store. Or gas station. Any of these on the Sabbath. If you really believe the Sabbath is supposed to be a certain day of the week, then those who believe that are hypocrites because each of you have at one point or another done one of the things I have just stated. In order for you to go to one of these places, a person has to be working. And if a person is working on the Sabbath, then he or she is sinning and obviously not resting. So all I see is a bunch of hypocrisy.
 
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If you really believe the Sabbath is supposed to be a certain day of the week,
I do believe the Sabbath is a specific day of the week. That is what Scripture says. In Leviticus 23, and other places, God is very clear about HIS holy days. These are not Jewish holy days. These are HIS Holy days. If you don't want to acknowledge HIS holy days, then that is just up to you. As far as the shopping and restaurants on the 7th day, NO, we do not go there. Yes, before I knew better, we did, but now, we do not. It is time to come out of Babylon.
 
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So if somebody is shot on the Sabbath (people get shot each and every day of the week) are they supposed to just lie there and potentially die? Rather than call for a hospital and the police because doctors and cops shouldn't be working?
The Messiah said, "It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". Notice His choice of words. He did not say, forget the Sabbath, or I fulfilled all that, or don't worry about the Sabbath. He said it is "lawful". It is legal to do good works on the Sabbath, such as healing, like He did.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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The Messiah said, "It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath". Notice His choice of words. He did not say, forget the Sabbath, or I fulfilled all that, or don't worry about the Sabbath. He said it is "lawful". It is legal to do good works on the Sabbath, such as healing, like He did.
That's because the law was still in affect. Jesus also said, the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. The bottom line disciplemike, is that if anyone trusts in anything else for salvation other than the shed blood of Christ, then they are not truly trusting in Christ for their salvation and that because those things that they are keeping are things that they can take credit for. When someone brings in something else along side the shed blood of Christ as a means of salvation, they are in essence saying that Christ's sacrifice was insufficient. People will just not let go of their need to take credit for salvation. They're gonna walk up there with a big grin thinking that they are going to get a pat on the back because they kept the Sabbath or that they kept the ten commands (not) or because they abstained from certain foods. But instead of being commended, they will be turned away because they trusted in their own efforts. All you continue to do is circumvent and distort scripture in order to support your teaching.

There is nothing I can do or need to do in order to obtain salvation, but trust in the One who provided it for me, fully and completely. Now, I attempt to walk as Christ walked, lead by the Spirit. Now every true believer, because of the indwelling of the Spirit, should be looking for every opportunity for good works, not to obtain salvation, but to glorify God. And by doing so, scripture states that we are also building up our treasures in heaven.
 
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The bottom line disciplemike, is that if anyone trusts in anything else for salvation other than the shed blood of Christ,
I have told you several times that salvation does not come by keeping the law. You keep posting (and implying) that I teach that. It is a lie. Now, you can continue spread that lie. I can't stop you. But I see no need to acknowledge any of your posts unless you correct your mistake.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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I do believe the Sabbath is a specific day of the week. That is what Scripture says. In Leviticus 23, and other places, God is very clear about HIS holy days. These are not Jewish holy days. These are HIS Holy days. If you don't want to acknowledge HIS holy days, then that is just up to you. As far as the shopping and restaurants on the 7th day, NO, we do not go there. Yes, before I knew better, we did, but now, we do not. It is time to come out of Babylon.
And so here is the question: If you don't observe the Sabbath does it separate a person from Christ keeping them from eternal life? If you eat pork or anything else that is listed in the law of Moses as foods not to be eaten does it keep that person from being forgiven and eternal life?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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I have told you several times that salvation does not come by keeping the law. You keep posting (and implying) that I teach that. It is a lie. Now, you can continue spread that lie. I can't stop you. But I see no need to acknowledge any of your posts unless you correct your mistake.
So then, why do you continue to teach these things of the law that must be done?
 
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And so here is the question: If you don't observe the Sabbath does it separate a person from Christ keeping them from eternal life? If you eat pork or anything else that is listed in the law of Moses as foods not to be eaten does it keep that person from being forgiven and eternal life?
When you correct your lies, we can talk.
 
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Interaction with "law-keepers" is like dealing with the Jewish people that love God. They have a zeal for God but just not according to knowledge.

That knowledge is the New Covenant and that we now live by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of love, the law of faith, the law of liberty and the law of Christ - which is Christ being in us in our new man - created in righteousness and holiness.

We live by the life of Christ in us now.

We can trust the Holy Spirit to lead us in this life for all that we need. We can look at the law to see how it relates to Jesus as He fulfilled it.

Romans 10:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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When you correct your lies, we can talk.
They are not lies. When I tell someone about Christ, I don't even bring up the keeping of the Sabbath or abstaining from foods, or keeping the ten commandments. I tell them about Christ who met the righteous requirements of the law satisfying their requirements and who paid penalty for our sins and that they are saved by trusting in Him without the keeping of those things. If you are attempting to keep those things, then you are trusting in them. Scripture states that "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

If you want to keep those things, you can do so, just as long as they are according to your own convictions. It is when those things are a requirement for salvation that it becomes a problem.