Metanoia/Repentance

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U

UnderGrace

Guest

Thank you Ben, I absolutely agree! You said it so well. I also look at it the whole "license to sin" or 'greasy grace" slander like this.....

License to sin is distorted reasoning, it is basically saying let us do evil that good may come.

Paul had lot to say about people who defamed that message of grace.

Roman 8
:3 Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say,“ - Let us do evil that good may result?” Their condemnation is deserved!

To avoid the truth of grace or defame the message by saying that it may give a person the right to sin is to support the truth of that which is opposite of grace – teaching that the law justifies.

This is unbelief in the finished work of Jesus.

Read what Paul says about those who do such.

So it is either grace or law it cannot be both.

My testimony.... thank God I have changed my mind (repented) and accepted what God says about His abounding grace, and escaped my own human reasoning which falters and fails even at the best of times.

One debt......paid in full.

When I did not agree with God on grace (kept bringing the law into play) I lived on the debt side, then I changed my mind, I came over to the paid in full side. Finally understand the freedom that Jesus gives.






In other words, license to sin. That is the accusation and summary of your perceived interpretation of what is being said by the hyper-grace proponents. I think the issue is that you don't understand how their solution to sin actually works, so you're fighting it because you don't understand it.

To you they are excusing their sin, instead of addressing it and having victory over it. Yet, there are testimonies of Christians who are victorious over sin through an understanding of God's grace, and their identity in Christ. Their repentance may not look like your repentance but its getting results in the lives of many believers. Setting them free from sins that held them. You cannot argue with the results.

It was a tad presumptuous to say they are being disobedient to the Holy Spirit, and not listening to Him. You don't know that, it is personal between them and the Lord. He lets us know when we are grieving Him.

How you define "true and godly repentance" and how they define repentance may differ, but again, I think you're fighting something you don't, at the moment, understand. Their solution albeit different from traditional concepts of repentance is getting results in the lives of people getting a hold of this revelation of God's grace and who they are in Christ, being new creations dead to sin and alive unto God.

No one is presenting a doctrine that says we have a license to sin. No one is saying to live the way you want. As a matter of fact they agree with the apostle Paul in asking, "How can we who are dead to sin, live in it?" The accusation, the allegation, or even the defamatory summation of hyper-grace theology is preaching licentiousness is unfounded and incorrect.
 
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Aug 15, 2009
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I hear how this thread is a hate thread.
I hear how this "hypergrace" has been around forever when it actually showed up in 1979 because Joseph Prince said God gave it to him.
I hear how repentance is nothing more than a changing of the mind..... which results in salvation being no more than a decision.

No Godly sorrow, a one-time repentance, sin no longer matters, and the Holy Spirit doesn't convict of sin. Sounds like apostasy to me.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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In other words, license to sin. That is the accusation and summary of your perceived interpretation of what is being said by the hyper-grace proponents. I think the issue is that you don't understand how their solution to sin actually works, so you're fighting it because you don't understand it.

To you they are excusing their sin, instead of addressing it and having victory over it. Yet, there are testimonies of Christians who are victorious over sin through an understanding of God's grace, and their identity in Christ. Their repentance may not look like your repentance but its getting results in the lives of many believers. Setting them free from sins that held them. You cannot argue with the results.

It was a tad presumptuous to say they are being disobedient to the Holy Spirit, and not listening to Him. You don't know that, it is personal between them and the Lord. He lets us know when we are grieving Him.

How you define "true and godly repentance" and how they define repentance may differ, but again, I think you're fighting something you don't, at the moment, understand. Their solution albeit different from traditional concepts of repentance is getting results in the lives of people getting a hold of this revelation of God's grace and who they are in Christ, being new creations dead to sin and alive unto God.

No one is presenting a doctrine that says we have a license to sin. No one is saying to live the way you want. As a matter of fact they agree with the apostle Paul in asking, "How can we who are dead to sin, live in it?" The accusation, the allegation, or even the defamatory summation of hyper-grace theology is preaching licentiousness is unfounded and incorrect.
This is one of the worst examples of putting words in my mouth, if indeed you were addressing me.

I have not judged anyone, except for those posting false doctrine. The more I think about hyper-grace and hyper-repentance, and search my Bible in English, Greek and Hebrew, I do not find any existence of these words in the Bible. Not even a slight hint at them.

In fact, it is DOCTRINE I am attacking. As for what I said about three individuals, it was not about sin in their lives, which I know nothing about, but in fact, the words they have posted in this thread, which are false and even a lie from the devil. And if you are walking in false doctrine, and TEACHING it actively, well that cannot be walking with the Holy Spirit can it? I would say that is obvious sin!

But, it seems like many are taking this as a personal attack on them, and the way they live. So if the shoe fits - wear it! But if it does not, I apologize for my words that anyone took the wrong way.

So rather than defending our personal lives, why don't we get back to studying the Bible? And showing why people who are posting this pernicious doctrine which ignores sin, repentance and confession are making.

PERNICIOUS

"having a harmful effect, especially in a gradual or subtle way.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"the pernicious influences of the mass media"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]harmful, damaging, destructive, injurious, hurtful, detrimental, deleterious, dangerous, adverse, inimical, unhealthy, unfavorable, bad, evil, baleful, wicked, malign, malevolent, malignant, noxious, poisonous, corrupting; literarymaleficent
"a pernicious influence on society""





[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

When certain individuals joined CC, I was very wary of them and what they were saying. Then I was gradually and subtly taken in by this terrible false doctrine. Then I realized what had happened, and publicly repented of supporting this doctrine of hyper-grace. I then began to see how many others who had been taken in by this very noxious doctrine.

Especially when the Greek is wrongly quoted to support their false doctrine and they will not be corrected. And where did they learn their Greek? From Joseph Prince? From internet websites?

So, yes, I will continue to rebuke and warn people about believing things that are not in the Bible, and seem to imitate early church heresies in some ways. I have always been totally against the Word of Faith, since books were given to me in the 1980's and it didn't sync with what the Bible said. When I got sick with Rheumatoid Arthritis, the amount of condemnation and judgement I received, especially when I was down in so many ways, nearly destroyed my walk with God. (Of course, God did not turn from me, but I did turn from him! And God did bring me back, after 2 wasted years of my life!)

Then the very people that condemned me were not healed, one died of breast cancer because she refused treatment, because she believed God for a miracle he never said he would give her (not saying their are no miracles just that you cannot "claim" them on the basis of twisted Scriptures) The other person who condemned me also got sick unto death, but went to the hospital and had surgery and is a healthy 86 year old today.

And Joseph Prince stands for this doctrine. He got his start with WoF. I believe too many have been deluded by his false doctrines and revelations, and they have not only flooded this forum, but swayed many others to these lies from the devil.

Repentance - it is from sin, towards God! It is a turning from the world, towards God. It simply is not "a change of mind" and that is one of the basics of this heresy. Ignoring sin and turning repentance into something that has strayed so far from its Biblical roots, it is no longer the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:21.

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The opening pages of Matthew - and already it is clearly defined what the gospel is - it is saving people from their sins. Anything else is a lie! And "victory over sin" doesn't actually appear in the Bible. These verses might imply it but since Paul was actually talking about death, and how Jesus conquered sin, it is HIS victory over death and sin we are to be celebrating. In context, it is about Jesus, and Jesus giving us eternal life. If you have other verses I would be happy to look at them in context.
[/FONT]
“O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Cor. 15:55-57

PS. As for "mystical [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]incantations" which seems to have offended you so much, I am referring to the constant reference to people chanting "I am the righteousness of God in Christ." True, this is the bible, but focusing on "I" is always the wrong direction to go. The gospel is supposed to focus on the "God in Christ", part of this verse, not the "I". And of course, saying it over and over is a New Age technique which is actually quite powerful, I can attest to! But it is not Biblical to chant, but rather to meditate and study the Word of God. [/FONT]
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I hear how this thread is a hate thread.
I hear how this "hypergrace" has been around forever when it actually showed up in 1979 because Joseph Prince said God gave it to him.
I hear how repentance is nothing more than a changing of the mind..... which results in salvation being no more than a decision.

No Godly sorrow, a one-time repentance, sin no longer matters, and the Holy Spirit doesn't convict of sin. Sounds like apostasy to me.
nonsense...it is obvious you have not read the posts in this thread.

Here are some links to show you what is really being said. This should keep the slander and malice down to a minimum.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138888-metanoia-repentance-6.html#post2702404

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138888-metanoia-repentance-6.html#post2702456


http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138888-metanoia-repentance-6.html#post2702613

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138888-metanoia-repentance-6.html#post2702614

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138888-metanoia-repentance-6.html#post2702628

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138888-metanoia-repentance-7.html#post2703055

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138888-metanoia-repentance-7.html#post2703141
 
Nov 22, 2015
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What garbage is this now....who is "chanting"? This is complete foolishness. Meditate means to mutter too not just think.

Joshua 1:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.

hāghāh
coo, growl, murmer; speak

Complete Biblical Library Hebrew-English Dictionary - The Complete Biblical Library Hebrew-English Dictionary – Gimel-Zayin.



God is the one that grants us repentance. No one said that believers were to continue in sin.
It is repentance to God and faith in Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 5:31 (NASB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

2 Timothy 2:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Here it is used in reference to "Repentance" from dead works and of faith toward God.

Hebrews 6:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,




 
Aug 15, 2009
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Oh, I read the whole thing..... and my Bible.

Romans 6:12-23 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. [SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you hypergracers would read your Bibles, you would discover that Joseph Prince is a heretic, & he will reap what he sows especially because he doesn't teach it in ignorance. He knows what he's doing.
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
To Cee

It took a lot of courage to share your life on such a deep level with us.
I commend you for your courage.

Through what you have experienced I believe you have developed a deep and intimate relationship with God.
Words like love, grace, and, dare I say it, repentance, have a meaning far beyond the dictionary definition for you as a result of your life experiences.

I consider myself privileged for having read a little about your life.

May the Lord bless and keep you!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Who is doing all this sinning? Who is saying to go out and sin all you want? Everyone knows that is a blatant lie as they can read without a flesh full of malice infecting their sight.

Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

 
Feb 24, 2015
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nonsense...
What garbage is this now....
This is complete foolishness.

I remember someone saying they do not agree with slander, lies, miss-representation.
Now this is exactly that.

A biblical interpretation of scripture and language is not foolishness, it is acedemic skill.
I understand the argument on both sides, but I thought the idea was to present ones
point of view and not slander the opposition.

I wonder is this a reportable approach to treating fellow christians with respect. When
they agreed with your theology you are polite and friendly, but not now.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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To the hypergracers out there, & to our readers:

Joseph Prince has a huge following. How many is in his church, 30,000? Does the Bible say the true church will increase or decrease in the last days? Let's see.....

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first (of the church), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:1-7 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy(of the church) comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

Matthew 7:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. [SUP]14 [/SUP]"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

With the doctrine of Hypergrace growing at a phenomenal rate..... DO THE MATH. He who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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What I am calling foolishness, nonsense and garbage is the charge that Christians confessing Christ and what He has done in them is now being called "chanting" as if making it a part of some foolish New Age thing.

I suppose the next thing wrong would be saying Jesus is "my" Lord and He loves "me"...this will be New age nonsense too. It's time to grow up in the Lord and start growing spiritually. We are beloved sons/daughters of God because of Jesus!

Confessing ( saying the same thing ) that God says about Christ, ourselves in Christ and others is the reality of the kingdom.

Our faith becomes effectual ( working ) through the acknowledging of what Christ has done for us. Real faith "speaks". Romans 10:6

If people are offended with that - then they will just have to be offended. I am not ashamed of the gospel of the grace of Christ and will stand for it no matter what comes by His grace.

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
 
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U

UnderGrace

Guest

You know Grace777x70 I was doing a search one night trying to come out of the weight of the Lordship salvation preachers that had so messed up my walk with Jesus.

The Lord led me to one of your posts on this website from there I did my research and started reading the various grace preachers and there are many!!! I would list them but I have something more important to say and that is....

You keep preaching brother because of your willingness to be bold and keep saying what scripture actually teaches started a process that pulled me out of terrible place.

I pray God's blessing upon you every day.


What I am calling foolishness, nonsense and garbage is the charge that Christians confessing Christ and what He has done in them is now being called "chanting" as if making it a part of some foolish New Age thing.

I suppose the next thing wrong would be saying Jesus is "my" Lord and He loves "me"...this will be New age nonsense too. It's time to grow up in the Lord and start growing spiritually. We are beloved sons/daughters of God because of Jesus!

Confessing ( saying the same thing ) that God says about Christ, ourselves in Christ and others is the reality of the kingdom.

Our faith becomes effectual ( working ) through the acknowledging of what Christ has done for us. Real faith "speaks". Romans 10:6

If people are offended with that - then they will just have to be offended. I am not ashamed of the gospel of the grace of Christ and will stand for it no matter what comes by His grace.

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Chanting phrases to get them into ones thinking is certainly not a christian concept.
Singing them as part of songs is.

I suppose the alien concept is the idea of understanding your identity in Christ, or more
really in theory the perfect spirit within is meant to generate walking in the Spirit.

Saying "I am the righteousness of Christ" in the context of being a sinner with unconfessed
sin is in opposition to repentance, and confession of sin, walking in purity and being blameless.
Now this becomes clear when repentance is just agreeing with God, which to me is a nebulous
concept, at which point I lose track, because that is the end of my gospel in Christ.

In my framework unless you repent sin is not dealt with, so you cannot be the righteousness
of Christ, that would be hypocracy.

But this is the spiritual impasse. But it is not foolish, nonsense and garbage.
I wish you could see this from sincere followers of Christ who desire out of a pure heart
to honour their King. Maybe we serve the same King with different models, but if we both
talk to the Holy Spirit and list to His voice, no one is foolish.

I do suspect though because words have been changed, and lenses put on, evil is seen
where there is none, just compromises that make ones heart live in peace. But what is Gods
will in this place.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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to come out of the weight of the Lordship salvation preachers that had so messed up my walk with Jesus.
I hope you do not mind me asking what was actually messing up your walk with Jesus?
Sin and guilt or trying to please God?

I ask because you put forward the idea that HG has saved you, and Lordship Salvation
was bondage. I am not a Lordship Salvation follower but I am interested in why you felt
this way and interpreted things in this black and white basis. God bless you.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Your last two posts wrecked me, man. Crying like a baby here. There is only one thing you have said that isn't true _ you said you don't have any brothers or sisters.
Thank you for your comment :) I really want to just share my heart more, so thank you for letting me know how you received it, and thank you so much, wow, you're so right. I do have brothers and sisters, I am surrounded by them. :) I feel so loved. Thank you! Love you! And I really appreciate your posts as well, for showing a different side to understanding what God has done for us, but putting it in "less mystical" language. We are all so different, but so needed. We have different gifts, understandings, experiences, and even relationship with God. When we can honor each other in humility, love one another through disagreements, and realize our hearts are for the same, just our perceptions are different, I believe we make our Papa proud, He desires us to be one, as He is one! And sure, we don't all have it all figured out, I am pretty confident when I go to God at the end of my life, He will show me where I was wrong. And that's okay too, I'm not perfect, I don't have it all figured out, but I can love well with His grace. And I can enjoy my family in Christ. :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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You know Grace777x70 I was doing a search one night trying to come out of the weight of the Lordship salvation preachers that had so messed up my walk with Jesus.

The Lord led me to one of your posts on this website from there I did my research and started reading the various grace preachers and there are many!!! I would list them but I have something more important to say and that is....

You keep preaching brother because of your willingness to be bold and keep saying what scripture actually teaches started a process that pulled me out of terrible place.

I pray God's blessing upon you every day.


Thank you! I appreciate your encouragement. I am very joyful that the Lord has set you free to walk in His grace and love and to get to really know the Father and our Lord is life-transforming to say the least.

The interesting thing about this is that I did not learn this initially from any preacher or teacher. I was just going about my own business and I had won a trip to Puerto Rico with my work. I remember in a social meeting one person in our group asked about heaven. I told them I know exactly where I am going. They said "how do you know that"

I told them " I am going to kneel before my Father and declare that His Son ,,my Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for me and I am here because of Him."

They all looked at me as if I was from another planet. "I said this will be my greatest achievement if one can even call it that - and that is to kneel down and confess Jesus and what He has done". ( they were shocked because I had won more awards then many others and to them...performance was everything )

Then a few weeks later I woke up with a scripture in my spirit - not my head. I wrote it down and then every morning for a few months the Lord would drop a scripture in my spirit. I still to this day from time to time take out those scriptures and meditate on them ( which includes confessing/agreeing with them ) as I feel directed by the Lord.

Now, those scriptures were the gospel of the grace of Christ and as I was learning more about them the Lord started me to look on the web for things and sure enough there were preachers preaching the same thing the Holy Spirit was showing me. I had never heard of any of these preachers before the Lord directed me to them. So, I was taught the gospel of the grace of Christ before I ever heard another preacher talk about it.

I can remember times when the Holy Spirit would come upon me ( it seemed like He came upon me - or maybe welled up within me...I'm not sure but it felt like He wrapped me up as in a blanket of pure love ) - and He was teaching me things concerning Christ and the true nature of the Father.

His power is overwhelming and very heavy and I couldn't move a muscle but just sit there and weep as He revealed His love and grace to me. His love is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence. It is so strong and you can take much of it as it just overwhelms you.

Since then the Lord has led me to many different people from many denominations to learn what they are anointed to teach on.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Angela.....what you said here is simply not true . And I am not "mocking repentance"...that is complete foolishness. I am simply using it the way the actual word means - not the way our religious upbringing has said about the word. If that offends your religious beliefs - then you will just have to be offended.

I am happy to leave what I have posted before God and I praise Him for the opportunity to speak about His wondrous grace and love for us. I will continue to post about Christ and what He has already done for us no matter who maligns me. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ.

Here is your quote below that is simply not true. It is a "twist" of what is really being said. It is incomplete in many ways.

Quote:


And that is not believing in the need for repentance, for confessing sins

Unquote:

Here is what people have posted and you too have seen this many times and yet why you do not believe what is really said here - is beyond me.

You are free to malign people that believe differently then you do all you want - but at least speak what the truth is about what is really being said and represent it accurately. Thank you.

Here is the truth which is what we are saying:

Hyper-Grace Preachers Don’t Believe in Repentance
Not only do we believe in repentance, but we seek to understand and teach it thoroughly and accurately. In the New Testament, “to repent” is a translation of the Greek verb “metanoeo” meaning “to change one’s mind or perspective.”

Obviously, when we receive Christ, we have repented in the genuine sense of the term – changing our minds about our need of a Savior and receiving Christ.

Before Christ, we lived as self-sufficiently as possible, thinking that God would probably grade on a curve and accept us at least partly on the basis of our own best efforts and self-generated goodness.

When we came to understand our spiritual bankruptcy and our desperate need for Christ’s forgiveness and new life, we repented (had a change of perspective) and received Christ by trusting in Him alone to rescue us.

Beyond this initial experience of “getting saved” (as we often call it), repentance is a daily lifestyle in which an ongoing “renewal of the mind” process is taking place within us.

As we grow in faith and in our understanding of God through His Word and our union with His Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:17), we begin to replace old thinking with new thinking and false thinking with true thinking. This renewal of the mind (Rom. 12:1-3) is an integral part of the transformative process of the Spirit’s work in our lives. This is the essence of a lifestyle of repentance – taking false thoughts captive, making them obedient to (in conformity with) Christ (2 Cor. 10:5).

Paul affirmed in no uncertain terms that God’s kindness (His expressed grace toward us) is what leads to repentance (Rom. 2:4). Far from being anti-repentance, hyper-grace theology affirms repentance and the ongoing renewal of the mind as an integral part of what it means to follow Jesus under His New Covenant.

Hyper-Grace Preachers Are Against Confession of Sin

This is one of the most common misrepresentations of hyper-grace theology. The Biblical term “to confess” simply means “to speak the same thing as” or “to agree with.”

We teach that confession is important because we should yield our minds to agreement with God about everything He reveals – including, but not limited to, sin.

What we often also teach (and this is where the rub is with some people) is that confession is not about triggering any transaction between us and God that would issue forth more forgiveness, as though God were dispensing forgiveness in various doses based upon our confessions.

Forgiveness of sin is something that was provided objectively ONE time by ONE act of grace through ONE Savior who shed His blood on the cross for us 2000 years ago. As the book of Hebrews repeatedly emphasizes, He is the “once for all” sacrifice for sin.

Confession of sin then, is about humility and walking in agreement with God – not about getting more forgiveness from Him. Some will suggest that God’s forgiveness is dispensed using a “two-tiered” approach.

On one level, they say, God has forgiven our sins judicially and objectively through the cross. On the second tier, however, we need to confess our sins in order to receive “relational” or“experiential” forgiveness in order to maintain close fellowship with God.

This two-tiered approach is nowhere taught in the New Testament, and has only been popularized because of two basic levels of rationale.

The first is based upon a misinterpretation of two passages in the New Testament, both of which have been clearly explained in books and sermons by a host of solid gospel teachers.

These two passages are Matthew 6:12 (where Jesus appears to be commanding His followers to ask for God’s forgiveness) and 1 John 1:9 (which seems to link forgiveness to confession of sin).

I encourage you to investigate these writings for yourself in order to understand the context in which these passages were intended to be understood.

The bottom-line is this. We hyper-grace preachers DO value confession of sin. We also practice confession of sin in our own lives. However, we understand confession to be about agreeing with God concerning the foolishness of our sin rather than begging for forgiveness based upon a humanly-invented two-tiered approach to somehow "maintaining close fellowship" with Him.

Our fellowship with God was purchased unconditionally and irreversibly by Jesus at the cross. Once we receive that fellowship by simple faith in Christ, it is our eternal possession regardless of our recent performance or track-record. As I’ve written in my book, The Gospel Uncut:

"The way I now approach confession is to simply agree with God about the foolishness of my sin. I admit to Him that my sin hurts me as well as others and that it fails to bring glory to His Name. Often I am sorrowful over the foolishness of my actions. The Apostle Paul wrote that there is a “godly sorrow that brings repentance” (2 Cor. 10:7). When I know I have sinned, I humbly admit that my sinful behavior is out of step with my new nature and identity in Him, and I ask Him to help me rest in His completed work. Now here comes the best part! After agreeing with God about my sin, I begin thanking Him for the fact that this sinful act was already forgiven at the cross.

Understanding these realities has literally transformed my practice of confession, changing the experience from a guilt-ridden begging session into a dynamic, worshipful encounter in which my conscious mind (and behavior) is realigned with the grace and truth of Jesus.

So yes! By all means confess your sin to God! Agree with Him about sin and everything else He has revealed. But don’t think of confession as a means of obtaining something that Jesus Christ died “once for all” to secure for you.

Remember that confession is about humility and the ongoing renewal of the mind process – and never about getting something from God that is already yours in abundance through the finished work of Christ.

If you are a believer in Christ, you are NEVER out of fellowship with God. Fellowship is an identity issue, meaning that you now share "all things in common" with God as a joint-heir with Christ (Rom. 8:17)!

This never has been and never will be based upon your behavioral performance and is not something that you must confess sin in order to have reinstated! Because of Christ, you are always clean and God is always close!

Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections


You just proved my point with this post, for which I thank you.

The hyper grace gospel, with its hyper grace repentance has been totally redefined to mean something totally different than what is did in the Bible. Because the Jews understood repentance. Repentance appears all through the Old Testament, with the Jews, and even God sending Jonah to Nineveh to preach repentance.

What do you think repentance meant to those Nineties who repented in sackcloth and ashes meant? That they were changing their minds? How absurd! No, they were repenting of their sin, and turning toward God. And God stayed his hand, much to the dismay of Jonah.

What were all the Old Testament sacrifices, which were a shadow of Christ were about? Changing their minds? No they were about getting remission for sins. (Well, technically some were thank offerings and so forth, but the ones meant for repentance.)

“Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call upon him while he is near;
7 let the wicked forsake his way,
and the unrighteous man his thoughts;
let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon." Isa. 55:6-7

"
“Yet even now,” declares the Lord,
“return to me with all your heart,
with fasting, with weeping, and with mourning;
13 and rend your hearts and not your garments.”
Return to the Lord your God,
for he is gracious and merciful,
slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love;
and he relents over disaster." Joel 2:12-13

"
I have paid attention and listened,
but they have not spoken rightly;
no man relents of his evil,
saying, ‘What have I done?’
Everyone turns to his own course,
like a horse plunging headlong into battle." Jeremiah 8:6

"
Thus says the Lord: Stand in the court of the Lord's house, and speak to all the cities of Judah that come to worship in the house of the Lord all the words that I command you to speak to them; do not hold back a word.3 It may be they will listen, and every one turn from his evil way, that I may relent of the disaster that I intend to do to them because of their evil deeds." Jeremiah 26:2-3

"
therefore I despise myself,
and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:6

Since the entire NT is based on the Old Testament, perhaps we need to look at the New Testament in terms of the Old Testament. Instead of making up and inventing new definitions for repentance, we need to go back to the meaning which is plain and obvious in the above verses.

Repentance is from sin. It is not pretty, and can involved abject misery. It involves fasting and weeping and mourning. It is NOT just a willful changing your mind and then moving forward. It is a time of intense turning from wickedness and toward the living God.

Please remember, with the exception of Luke, who was Greek, all the New Testament writers not only knew, but had likely memorized the above verses. They ALL knew repentance was about sin, it was about taking action, about changing their hearts (not just their minds - that is a Greek overlay on the true Old Testament meaning, since their really was not another word in Greek to cover the implications of true repentance.) They all knew what repentance meant. They understood the connotations of the repentance from sin, and it certainly wasn't just changing their minds.

Then there were ALL the prophets - major and minor! What do you think God called them for? To change people's minds?? No! To warn them of their impeding doom for wickedness, and the need for repentance. Israel did not repent, and they were taken into captivity in 722 BC. Judah had a few kings who listened at least in part, but they also failed in the end to move their people back to God and they were taken into the Babylonia captivity in 586 BC. Meaning of repentance as a nation- to repent of worshipping false gods and idols,especially. To tear down the asherah and the altars to gods in high places. To rip their garments and repent of their wickedness by ceasing to do these terrible acts against God.

What you have done with this hyper grace gospel is that you have changed the meaning, ignored the historical implications and overtones from the Hebrew, and turned it into a false gospel. A gospel that is self made, a gospel that does not address the evil and wickedness of sin.

Sin is wicked. It requires a lot more than merely "changing your mind." Hyper grace is a heresy, it has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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473
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Sin is not our master. It doesn't control us. We are not guided by it, lead by it, empowered by it. Why even focus on it?

The Spirit of God is our master, He guides us, leads us, empowers us, He brings freedom where there wasn't any.

And the Spirit of God will lead us beyond sin and into love.

Jesus didn't die so we would focus on our sin. So why do so many preach that we need to? Because we think that people will sin if we let them? News flash. They don't need permission. They need permission to be righteous. And they need permission to love. Even in this forum, how often do you see people truly loving and encouraging one another? But Paul says that of all the spiritual gifts, above all, we should love and encourage each other.

Too many people have strained out a gnat and swallowed a camel instead. And they are teaching people this same error. And even worse, the church is NOT known by the world for it's love. Even though Jesus says, we shall know who is His disciple by our love for one another, notice He doesn't say our love for our world, but our love for one another.

If we TRULY want to see people live holy, pure lives, that are honoring and bring glory to God, let's start preaching what He did. Love one another, because in love, we do no sin to another. Or even let's get convinced God loves us, really really convinced, and then be filled with all His fullness. (Eph 3:17-) So other people can experience His love in their lives too. I mean that is why Jesus came right? Because God SO loved the world.

And yes He came to free us from our sins, and I believe He did. Are we slaves of righteousness? Paul says we are. I say let's see what happens when we agree with him and with God. :)

After all that IS the Kingdom of God.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Thank you for asking.
By way of a bit of background I was saved at 20, totally understood saved by grace through faith in Jesus as my Saviour having died on the cross for my sins.
I was very steeped in the occult so I had a very radical conversion.
Wow God’s grace upon me was amazing.

What Lordship salvation had me believing was that if I sinned it was because I had not truly made Jesus the Lord of my life, they seemed to put me back in the self-effort camp, I needed to work harder and show the fruits of my salvation it was not enough that Jesus was Saviour.

Simply put, it put my focus on my sin and my effort to rid myself of sin and trying to make Jesus Lord of my life, but by eyes were not really on the object of my faith, Jesus and His grace.

I had to stop trying to be good, cause it wasn’t working anyway. What I needed to do was avail myself to His grace, and stop thinking we were somehow working out my salvation together through His Lordship, He had already completed the work
His grace is sufficient for me.

Anyway this is it in brief, take from it what you will or not...it is all good in Jesus that is.:)



I hope you do not mind me asking what was actually messing up your walk with Jesus?
Sin and guilt or trying to please God?

I ask because you put forward the idea that HG has saved you, and Lordship Salvation
was bondage. I am not a Lordship Salvation follower but I am interested in why you felt
this way and interpreted things in this black and white basis. God bless you.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Thank you Tony this post means a lot to me. I have to put myself in check often because of my zeal on certain subjects, but I really just want to communicate my heart and love. I am blessed to read your posts as well my friend. And whatever good things about Him, God has given me through my experiences, I pray you and whoever wants them will receive as well. May we all be continually be multiplied in grace and the knowledge of our Lord. :)

To Cee

It took a lot of courage to share your life on such a deep level with us.
I commend you for your courage.

Through what you have experienced I believe you have developed a deep and intimate relationship with God.
Words like love, grace, and, dare I say it, repentance, have a meaning far beyond the dictionary definition for you as a result of your life experiences.

I consider myself privileged for having read a little about your life.

May the Lord bless and keep you!