do not be decieved. let no one deceive you. Life and death

[FreeNChrist]

Matthew 23:1

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Sitting in Moses seat is teaching from Moses. The law of God is not "done away with". Period.

Keep reading. There's something coming up that changes everything.

 

[FreeNChrist]

OK I won't explain. I'll just quote and add brackets and ask you to explain the passage ok?

Revalation 1:1

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

1. Is Revelation a message from Christ to us? Is this the final message he gave or is there another? Was this message given after he died on the cross and resurrected from the dead?

....

Revelation 12:17

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

2. What's this mean?

....

Revelation 14:12

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


3. What's this mean?

....


Revelation 22:12-16

Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each person according to what he has done.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.

But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.


4. Is this a message to the churches from Christ?

5. Also, why is he telling them to wash their robes so they can enter into the city? Why is it contrasted with those who'll be on the outside?

6. sexual immorality, murder, idolatry, falsehood...are these sins? Weren't these commanded against at Mt. Sinai?

7. What does "washing robes" mean in this context?

Please share your understanding for my edification.

Very simply, who are those who keep the commandments, who are the only ones who even can?

 

[Yahshua]

We (everyone who wants to on CC) should do a study about the revelation churches some time.

I believe the 1st works referenced is concerning forgiveness and grace. They fell in the legalistic side of error while the ones they opposed were practicing a lictenous doctrine.

The other 7 churches show a model of every church we have now and a message for current churches of people were honest.

However the message isn't that people need to work for their salvation.

I agree we should attempt a study of revelation; full agreement there. I think it would really help all of us.

But please don't mistake my post. These are the 7 churches of Christ so we can assume Christ already died for them. Salvation was already given. We have to reason from this starting point because Christ isn't talking to anyone else in Revelation, but to *his church*. So how is it true that Christ will blot out names of members of his CHURCH, from his book of life if their "ticket" (so to say) is already stamped?

It's game over for us if we're blotted out of that book.

Again, this is his church, not folks who haven't confessed Christ.

 

[Yahshua]

Very simply, who are those who keep the commandments, who are the only ones who even can?

You're not explaining but answering a question with a question. We've already assumed I'm poor at understanding so please share your wisdom I may answer your question in error.

 

[Ariel82]

Keep reading. There's something coming up that changes everything.

Matthew: 23. 4. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6. And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7. And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. 13. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18. And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20. Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30. And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34. Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35. That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38. Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. -

 

[Ariel82]

I agree we should attempt a study of revelation; full agreement there. I think it would really help all of us.

But please don't mistake my post. These are the 7 churches of Christ so we can assume Christ already died for them. Salvation was already given. We have to reason from this starting point because Christ isn't talking to anyone else in Revelation, but to *his church*. So how is it true that Christ will blot out names of members of his CHURCH, from his book of life if their "ticket" (so to say) is already stamped?

It's game over for us if we're blotted out of that book.

Again, this is his church, not folks who haven't confessed Christ.

Not everyone in the early churches belonged to Christ. As seen by the letters of the apostles and Revelation..., even early on there were lies and corrupt people sneaking in and claiming to be from God but teaching things that went against the Gospel.

So I am not sure you can establish that you can lose your salvation from that premise.

Personally I don't believe anyone is truly saved unless they have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and been born again. Some people fool themselves into thinking they have escaped Bellaire by making a false confession of faith,but God sees the heart. Others have the Holy Spirit and struggle because it's part of God's plan for their life....to lead people who manage to fall into the put out with them or by hearing their testimony.

We can't really judge the state of anyone else's salvation. Just out own.

However if someone is sealed with the Holy Spirit, then God will not desert them or let them wander away from Him before calling them back home.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You're not explaining but answering a question with a question. We've already assumed I'm poor at understanding so please share your wisdom I may answer your question in error.

You’re trying to annul the law by setting it loose from its moorings in God. Disconnecting it from the perfect activity of God. The only ones who keep the law, the only ones who can keep the law, are those in whom Jesus Christ lives to manifest the character of God in and through.

 

[Yahshua]

You’re trying to annul the law by setting it loose from its moorings in God. Disconnecting it from the perfect activity of God. The only ones who keep the law, the only ones who can keep the law, are those in whom Jesus Christ lives to manifest the character of God in and through.

No I'm asking you to explain the passage for me. My questions are specific to the passage in Revelation. You've said I haven't understanding so I'm asking you for understanding regarding the passage in question.


...and that's a little confusing to say that I'm trying to annul the law? Separating it from God? Point out where I've done either if you please.

 

[FreeNChrist]

No I'm asking you to explain the passage for me. My questions are specific to the passage in Revelation. You've said I haven't understanding so I'm asking you for understanding regarding the passage in question.

I already have.

 

[Ariel82]

Hellfire not Bellaire...what a strange auto correct

 

[Yahshua]

I already have.

No you're dodging. I can't keep posting the same post because that's spamming but if you would, please answer the 7 questions one by one since it'll help me understand the passage I can't seem to.

 

[Ariel82]

Very simply, who are those who keep the commandments, who are the only ones who even can?

His answer (paraphrased) are those who have been born again, and have the Holy Spirit leading them to fulfill the law.......unless I misread his answer....

 

[FreeNChrist]

No you're dodging. I can't keep posting the same post because that's spamming but if you would, please answer the 7 questions one by one since it'll help me understand the passage I can't seem to.

You'll never get it when you are just looking for the wrong answer you want instead of the right answer you need.

 

[Ariel82]

OK I won't explain. I'll just quote and add brackets and ask you to explain the passage ok?

Revalation 1:1

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

1. Is Revelation a message from Christ to us? Is this the final message he gave or is there another? Was this message given after he died on the cross and resurrected from the dead?

....

Revelation 12:17

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

2. What's this mean?

....

Revelation 14:12

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


3. What's this mean?

....


Revelation 22:12-16

Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each person according to what he has done.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.

But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.


4. Is this a message to the churches from Christ?

5. Also, why is he telling them to wash their robes so they can enter into the city? Why is it contrasted with those who'll be on the outside?

6. sexual immorality, murder, idolatry, falsehood...are these sins? Weren't these commanded against at Mt. Sinai?

7. What does "washing robes" mean in this context?

Please share your understanding for my edification.

1. Yes, no, yes
2. Satan attacked the faithful followers of Christ who were trying to spread the gospel of salvation through Jesus death on the cross for our sins to the world.

3. That saints should learn patience because they will undergo trials.

4. Yes
5. Because the only way to get white robes is to wash them in the blood of Christ...
6. Yes, yes....we are at Mount Zion not Sinai
7. Washing away of sins

 

[Yahshua]

Not everyone in the early churches belonged to Christ. As seen by the letters of the apostles and Revelation..., even early on there were lies and corrupt people sneaking in and claiming to be from God but teaching things that went against the Gospel.

So I am not sure you can establish that you can lose your salvation from that premise.

Personally I don't believe anyone is truly saved unless they have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and been born again. Some people fool themselves into thinking they have escaped Bellaire by making a false confession of faith,but God sees the heart. Others have the Holy Spirit and struggle because it's part of God's plan for their life....to lead people who manage to fall into the put out with them or by hearing their testimony.

We can't really judge the state of anyone else's salvation. Just out own.

However if someone is sealed with the Holy Spirit, then God will not desert them or let them wander away from Him before calling them back home.

I agree with you regarding the Holy Spirit. It is written that the Spirit will leads us, reproving/correct us of sin, righteousness and judgment.

But with respect I'm not establishing anything. I'm simply quoting and referencing scripture.

We don't have to judge their state because Christ already has in the very message he's giving. It starts off by saying he holds the 7 candlesticks in his hands and that they are his churches. He's also quoted as saying he's the one who searches each and ever heart just before he continues correcting a church.

The passage I'm referring to says...

Revelation 3
4 But you do have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and because they are worthy, they will walk with Me in white.


The implication here is there are many who have soiled their garments. What are garments in light of scripture?


5 Like them, the one who is victorious will be clothed in white garments. And I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.


We have to take from this two things:

1) That one's name CAN be blotted out, by Christ, even if one is in Christ's hand.

2) Christ is warning the people to clean up because he doesn't want to blot them out. Christ doesn't say anything about them confessing him as savior because they're past that part.

 

[Ariel82]

Revelation: 7. 9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10. And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 13. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

 

[Yahshua]

You'll never get it when you are just looking for the wrong answer you want instead of the right answer you need.

lol ok nvm

 

[Ariel82]

I agree with you regarding the Holy Spirit. It is written that the Spirit will leads us, reproving/correct us of sin, righteousness and judgment.

But with respect I'm not establishing anything. I'm simply quoting and referencing scripture.

We don't have to judge their state because Christ already has in the very message he's giving. It starts off by saying he holds the 7 candlesticks in his hands and that they are his churches. He's also quoted as saying he's the one who searches each and ever heart just before he continues correcting a church.

The passage I'm referring to says...

Revelation 3
4 But you do have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and because they are worthy, they will walk with Me in white.


The implication here is there are many who have soiled their garments. What are garments in light of scripture?


5 Like them, the one who is victorious will be clothed in white garments. And I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.


We have to take from this two things:

1) That one's name CAN be blotted out, by Christ, even if one is in Christ's hand.

2) Christ is warning the people to clean up because he doesn't want to blot them out. Christ doesn't say anything about them confessing him as savior because they're past that part.

See that is a logical fallacy.

If I said since you are a man, you will never give birth to a baby.

Would you assume from that statement, you COULD give birth to a baby?

Jesus says they are clothed in white garments (saved) and will never be blotted out.

I guess we could discuss what it means to be victorious.

For me is when we have the assurance of the Holy Spirit leading us, when we have given God our whole lives and follow Him.

If we wander off, I have faith God will lead us back on the path.

We are not victorious until we reach a point in our lives when we realize we can't do it on our own.we need God to lead us. Only when we have put to death the old man can the seed grow and we can be born again in the image of Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here are some grace based teachings on the churches in Revelation. We must always look at all obscure scripture through the very clear scriptures.

The "soiling of the garments" is answered in Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)"

I like to use this site sometimes as it answers the tough contradictory scriptures in light of the finished work of Christ which is very clearly outlined in scriptures. It also has at the bottom of the article a place where people have asked questions. Sometimes I learn a lot from that area too.

There are a number of articles about the people in Revelation 2 and 3..:

Strike Her Children Dead (Revelation 2:23) ( Jezebel one )

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/06/...velation-2v23/


This one is all about the Laodicean church.

https://escapetoreality.org/category/laodicean-church/

This one is about " Incomplete Deeds: The Zombie Church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-6)"

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...rdis-rev-31-6/

Here is one about." Forsaking Your First Love: What Was the Ephesians’ Problem? (Rev 2:1-7)"

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...blem-rev-21-7/

Here is one about " Holding Fast in Thyatira: The Seductress versus the Savior (Rev 2:18-29)

https://escapetoreality.org/2010/04/...or-rev-218-29/

 

[simplifiedtruth]

"The sin underneath all our sins is the lie of the serpent that we cannot trust the love and grace of Christ and that we must take matters into our own hands.

- Martin Luther

You are trying to tell people they don't need to listen to God. You are trying to say it is ok to sin and break God's law. You are saying the law of God is done away with. You are saying people can continue to live in disobedience to God. Actually you are teaching people there is a license to sin. You are telling people it is ok and that they should not strive to turn from their wicked ways to God's eternal ways. You think what God has said is sinful is no longer sinful and that He has changed He's mind.

Sin is the transgression of the law in the NT. (1 John 3:4)