How do we view heretic hunters websites that supposedly expose error?

[Gr8grace]

When you look at the websites that condemn Billy Graham - some of them are well written but the bottom line is that they still do not agree with a subject that Graham has talked about and so he is a "heretic" to them.

I would consider Billy Graham a heretic. Not unsaved, but a heretic.

He pushes lordship salvation and not Grace. The essential.......he is missing.

 

[Oncefallen]

I would consider Billy Graham a heretic. Not unsaved, but a heretic.

He pushes lordship salvation and not Grace. The essential.......he is missing.

Just can't post in a thread without trying to turn it into a Grace vs Law debate?

 

[Gr8grace]

Just can't post in a thread without trying to turn it into a Grace vs Law debate?

Billy Graham never pushed the Law. He just never pushed Grace.

Why are you trying to turn it into Grace vs law?

 

[Grace777x70]

I just thought of another possible barrier that can make things skewed on the heretic hunters websites.

Sometimes what others are really saying is not represented right. They "hear" something else when they listen to another speak on a subject.

For example as an illustration: A person says this:

"What a beautiful blue sky our Lord made for us today."

Someone hears this statement and then responds with this:

"You are a false teacher - the sky is not green - everyone knows the sky is blue."

It is hard to deal with this type of a mindset because no matter how much you say the sky is blue - they hear you saying it is green.

So, then what is actually believed is being mis-represented and then there isn't even the possibility to agree to disagree on these subjects in any kind of respectful manner.

 

[Gr8grace]

I just thought of another possible barrier that can make things skewed.

Sometimes what others are really saying is not represented right. They "hear" something else when they listen to another speak on a subject.

For example as an illustration: A person says this:

"What a beautiful blue sky our Lord made for us today."

Someone hears this statement and then responds with this:

"You are a false teacher - the sky is not green - everyone knows the sky is blue."

It is hard to deal with this type of a mindset because no matter how much you say the sky is blue - they hear you saying it is green. So, then what is actually believed is being mis-represented and then there isn't even the possibility to agree to disagree on these subjects.

Grace 777. IMO you are overthinking this and wasting your time. A carnal believer or an unbeliever is NEVER going to hear what you are saying.


If the essential or foundation is not there..............nobody that you want to hear your message is going to hear. Acts 16:31 needs to be FIRST for the unbeliever and the believer needs to get back to it. It can go no Further than that until that is passed and SOLID in the mind of the believer(Acts 16:31.)

We are having absolutely NO success because pretty much EVERYONE here is stuck on salvation.

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace 777. IMO you are overthinking this and wasting your time. A carnal believer or an unbeliever is NEVER going to hear what you are saying.


If the essential or foundation is not there..............nobody that you want to hear your message is going to hear. Acts 16:31 needs to be FIRST for the unbeliever and the believer needs to get back to it. It can go no Further than that until that is passed and SOLID in the mind of the believer(Acts 16:31.)

We are having absolutely NO success because pretty much EVERYONE here is stuck on salvation.

I'm trying to "flesh out" some possible reasons for mis-understandings that can occur on some heretic hunter websites and maybe come up with some good ways to "assess" what is being said in regards to these supposed "heretics".

Are what they saying really heretical or is it a difference of opinion in some areas that are non-essential.

In that case we could just give our opinions and then allow the others to have their opinions without all the name-calling, insults..etc. - which then manifests in strife and divisions - which is the meaning of the word "heretic" and "heresies".

In those cases we can agree to disagree and still have respect and honor towards each other. I believe this will glorify the Lord and "hare-lip" the devil. (I'm not sure exactly that that saying means but it sounds good...lol )

I believe knowing about this area can stop a lot of the strife and divisions between us Christians. We are called to unity but in the same token there is a warning to watch out for false teachers and prophets too.

 

[jaybird88]

i dont agree with the praying in tongues, but to call it heresy is wrong and taking it to far.

 

[Gr8grace]

Just can't post in a thread without trying to turn it into a Grace vs Law debate?

I am done. Get rid of my account.

Bye all.

 

[Grace777x70]

i dont agree with the praying in tongues, but to call it heresy is wrong and taking it to far.

That to me is a prime example of agreeing to disagree without the "heretic" ...false teacher ..etc...name calling or insults.

For me - I speak in tongues to my Father in the run of a day more then I speak in English but then again I am not out in the public either...lol

But we can respect each other's right to have the individual views and carry on and fellowship around the blood of Jesus and our great salvation that is in Him.....

 

[heavenly_bound]

OMG hows kneadly doing!! I miss talking to him hes awesome
Yeah people say this ''oh r u really 16 alalala'' A LOT. Its often that or ''God doesnt use ppl your age stop doing ministry blablabla'' I just giggle at that tho.
lol God bless you too haha. I am glad that I am a pleasant surprise to many. Theres not a lot of my kind out there.. Especially when it comes to the ''outspokenness'' Well my friend many many hugs back

Next time they say that dear sis, remind them how old the Mother of our lord in the flesh was when she begat Him. She was about your age when gave her such a massive responsibility!

 

[Angela53510]

The purpose of this OP is to see how we are to view all the people that are supposedly heretics to someone or to some group.

For example to those that believe in speaking in tongues and actually do pray in tongues on a daily basis to their Father - they have been called heretics by whole denominations because they don't agree with this doctrine.

This will be a 2 post OP. This 1st one is to set up the premise and then 2nd one is to ask questions to see how we are to view this subject.

There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Dr. Michael Brown, Justin Peters, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Andrew Wommack...etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics".

Their motto is: "If people don't believe some scriptures in the way that"they"do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.." This is not what we were taught in "my" church or in our whole church tradition.

It's the nature of the beast. Martin Luther was a heretic to the catholic church at the time because for 1100 years prior to Luther they had always "believed" the same way.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and they are in error and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

This sounds perilously to me like someone trying to downplay the fact that there are real heresies in the modern church. For that matter, there have been heretics since the NT, with many verses warning people of false teachers, and warning others of false doctrines that were taking hold of some churches. From gnostics in the 2nd century AD through to the big one in the mid 3rd century, in which many in the church who said Jesus wasn't God, it seems to be human nature to take something that is very clear in the Bible, and make it into something that leads people astray.

Yes, the Catholic church is a good example of a heresy believed by many people, which Martin Luther, Zwingli and Calvin all called and changed the future of the church in the 15 century.

Today, there are cults like Mormans, JW's, and other groups who use the Bible to their own ends.

I think we can pretty much all agree on those heresies.

But what about today? We do need to agree on sound doctrine. If not, we do have to consider that what we ourselves are believing might also be heresy. I'm not talking side issues, but rather basic soteriology. How are we saved? And theology - who is God? And what is his character? And who is man, (that you are mindful of him?). Anthropology and so on and so on.

My thought is some basic doctrines have stood the test of time - such as Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, when we believe and repent! Or is that repent and believe? To name only one thing that seems to be up for discussion.

But all these johny-come-lately types with a church and/or some channel on Youtube to preach "another" gospel. These are the ones we really need to be wary of.

As for main stream preachers, like you have listed above, it is a small fringe of people calling these people heretics, often heretics themselves. But other aspects of modern preachers, who twist the Bible, well, we all should be wary of those people. They have not stood the test of time, like Martin Luther, or even the very orthodox people in your list.

What concerns me about this post, is that it mocks the fact that there are real heretics today. This whole post is situational ethics and certainly there is truth and lies, and people do need to realize that not necessarily "everything" is ok, and that we do need to be aware when groups come into CC, for example and twist the Bible to make it look like their favourite preacher has discovered some new truth, when in fact, it might just be antinomanism revisted!

We need to call a spade a spade, for sure!

 

[Utah]

I am done. Get rid of my account.

Bye all.

I'm bumbed out about this ^^^^

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm bumbed out about this ^^^^

You and I both, Alot of good people leaving lately

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This sounds perilously to me like someone trying to downplay the fact that there are real heresies in the modern church. For that matter, there have been heretics since the NT, with many verses warning people of false teachers, and warning others of false doctrines that were taking hold of some churches. From gnostics in the 2nd century AD through to the big one in the mid 3rd century, in which many in the church who said Jesus wasn't God, it seems to be human nature to take something that is very clear in the Bible, and make it into something that leads people astray.

Yes, the Catholic church is a good example of a heresy believed by many people, which Martin Luther, Zwingli and Calvin all called and changed the future of the church in the 15 century.

Today, there are cults like Mormans, JW's, and other groups who use the Bible to their own ends.

I think we can pretty much all agree on those heresies.

But what about today? We do need to agree on sound doctrine. If not, we do have to consider that what we ourselves are believing might also be heresy. I'm not talking side issues, but rather basic soteriology. How are we saved? And theology - who is God? And what is his character? And who is man, (that you are mindful of him?). Anthropology and so on and so on.

My thought is some basic doctrines have stood the test of time - such as Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, when we believe and repent! Or is that repent and believe? To name only one thing that seems to be up for discussion.

But all these johny-come-lately types with a church and/or some channel on Youtube to preach "another" gospel. These are the ones we really need to be wary of.

As for main stream preachers, like you have listed above, it is a small fringe of people calling these people heretics, often heretics themselves. But other aspects of modern preachers, who twist the Bible, well, we all should be wary of those people. They have not stood the test of time, like Martin Luther, or even the very orthodox people in your list.

What concerns me about this post, is that it mocks the fact that there are real heretics today. This whole post is situational ethics and certainly there is truth and lies, and people do need to realize that not necessarily "everything" is ok, and that we do need to be aware when groups come into CC, for example and twist the Bible to make it look like their favourite preacher has discovered some new truth, when in fact, it might just be antinomanism revisted!

We need to call a spade a spade, for sure!

I think you misunderstood.

The OP is not about heresy or if there is any,

it is about going to a heresy hunter website to get dirt on someone we consider a heretic. Or to learn what the supposed or accused "heretic" is preaching.

 

[Angela53510]

I think you misunderstood.

The OP is not about heresy or if there is any,

it is about going to a heresy hunter website to get dirt on someone we consider a heretic. Or to learn what the supposed or accused "heretic" is preaching.

No, you misunderstood. This is about setting people up so that "heresy" is being mocked, because these fringe people call orthodox Christians, (even if they disagree about things) heretics.

This opens the door for joking and mocking people who are aware of real heresy. And you know what, if for some reason I did go to one of these websites, (never have, I confess) and I found something TRUE, about a heresy, it doesn't make it false, just because of the format nor URL.

Nor, does it make it right to say that if someone says something is orthodox, and it is not, to mock it and imply that all heretic websites are wrong. Or, that there are certain current false doctrines by heretics, that are false, regardless of where the material is found.

Truth in Scripture is always true, even if it is on the "Heretics together fighting heretics" website or not.

I do not understand at all, after all we have been through the last year, with a certain heretical doctrine trying to take over this place, why Bruce has decided to come back again at this. In fact, I really question his motives!

Surely there are much more positive things to talk about to do with doctrine and the Bible.

 

[laura_charlotte]

I am done. Get rid of my account.

Bye all.

That is unfortunate. If you are reading this, unless God has advised you otherwise, please don't be put off by unnecessary things. Look over them, stand up and keep proclaiming God's word.

 

[jaybird88]

That to me is a prime example of agreeing to disagree without the "heretic" ...false teacher ..etc...name calling or insults.

For me - I speak in tongues to my Father in the run of a day more then I speak in English but then again I am not out in the public either...lol

But we can respect each other's right to have the individual views and carry on and fellowship around the blood of Jesus and our great salvation that is in Him.....

you and I are on opposite sides on a few things, tongues and grace are 2. i respect what you believe and if what you believe brings you closer to the Most High, dont change anything. the ticky tack doctrine issues IMO dont matter as long as your heart is seeking. and if one is wrong about one of these doctrines, thats where grace kicks in. see i am a "grace" guy after all.

 

[FlSnookman7]

It is sad that people feel like they can not be honest and open in a Christian forum for fear of being attacked. The whole "im not attacking you, just correcting you" crowd is an unChristian blight here. I suppose because it is so easy to be uncivil when anonymous. To clothe oneself in self righteousness and belittle others so you feel better about yourself is pathetic. These are the same people who would run to the teacher and tell if things did not go their way. We are supposed to lift up each other. I also find it pitiful that many of those who post that garbage here would never have the guts to say some of what they say here in person. I can not be the only person seeing this.

 

[PeterJens]

The two phrases come to mind
"Love your enemies"
"Keep you friends close and your enemies closer still"

If you want to discover the biggests weaknesses about your position go to you enemies
and see what they write.

If what they are saying is true, then you need to change your position or if you believe
the world is founded on opinion and position, then you will never have a foundation.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life"

In a simple way what this means is everything submits to truth. This means what we call
faith, certainty, conviction, experience is subservient to truth. It is odd in someways but
giving up faith can also mean you regain it, because the faith you have can be founded on
groups, impression, experiences, but you need to understand Jesus is so much more than
this, that what we often regard as loyalty or defence of where we are can be rebellion and
disbelief that Jesus is real.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, you misunderstood. This is about setting people up so that "heresy" is being mocked, because these fringe people call orthodox Christians, (even if they disagree about things) heretics.

This opens the door for joking and mocking people who are aware of real heresy. And you know what, if for some reason I did go to one of these websites, (never have, I confess) and I found something TRUE, about a heresy, it doesn't make it false, just because of the format nor URL.

Nor, does it make it right to say that if someone says something is orthodox, and it is not, to mock it and imply that all heretic websites are wrong. Or, that there are certain current false doctrines by heretics, that are false, regardless of where the material is found.

Truth in Scripture is always true, even if it is on the "Heretics together fighting heretics" website or not.

I do not understand at all, after all we have been through the last year, with a certain heretical doctrine trying to take over this place, why Bruce has decided to come back again at this. In fact, I really question his motives!

Surely there are much more positive things to talk about to do with doctrine and the Bible.

No, I did not misunderstand at all. Read the op.

In fact. No one is calling orthodox heretics at all. from what I see, But for some reason a lot of orthodox loves to go to heretics hunting sites to dig up dirt on other Christians, so they can use it..

That is what the op is about.. Should we go to heretic hunter webpages to get our dirt. Can they be reliable. If so. How??

If someone is teaching heresy, Can't we address it right there.. Why do we need to go to webpages which are biased?