Not By Works

[Cee]

How does one obtain a "sincerely repented heart"? And who determines if someone is sincere enough?

grace is the influencing power of the Spirit upon the sincerely repented heart to live righteously, godly, and soberly in this PRESENT world............be blessed

 

[graceNpeace]

grace is the influencing power of the Spirit upon the sincerely repented heart to live righteously, godly, and soberly in this PRESENT world............be blessed

I get, I get it!
One has to earn grace...

Wait a minute....
How can one earn unmerited favour....

 

[stonesoffire]

what are the riches, pie in the sky when you die in the sweet bye and bye, or the power to be a sweat smelling aroma in Gods presence and do the works that pleases HIM? remember sin is a stench within God's nostrils.................be blessed

lol...I'm sorry but I can't resist. Sweat smelling? I really do apologize but I can't stop laughing. You mean sweet don't you?

 

[PeterJens]

Amen ...grace or law, one or the other, cannot be both.

The law cannot be wrapped in grace, and grace cannot be infused into the law.

This idea is conceptual mixing ideas in summary which are different things.
The law is a way of defining how you tell a spirit filled believer walking in the Kingdom.
It gives you the failure not the reasons or solutions.

Grace is Gods working with us to bring us into this place.
The law though as a means of justification has always failed because it was the standard
for life and the warning as to the consequences of failure.

The OT expression of law was particular to Israel, though its precepts remain the form has
changed. We have never been "free" from the precepts but empowered through the cross
to live them. It is this tension which has always driven us in our lives.

It is very hard for those who are legalists or ex-legalists to understand love with grace still
has rules and Gods will always reigns.

 

[stonesoffire]

This idea is conceptual mixing ideas in summary which are different things.
The law is a way of defining how you tell a spirit filled believer walking in the Kingdom.
It gives you the failure not the reasons or solutions.

Grace is Gods working with us to bring us into this place.
The law though as a means of justification has always failed because it was the standard
for life and the warning as to the consequences of failure.

The OT expression of law was particular to Israel, though its precepts remain the form has
changed. We have never been "free" from the precepts but empowered through the cross
to live them. It is this tension which has always driven us in our lives.

It is very hard for those who are legalists or ex-legalists to understand love with grace still
has rules and Gods will always reigns.

Peter

The baptism of Holy Spirit threw precepts out of the window. Precepts are line upon line, here a little, there a little....and is certainly not the victorious life of being Spirit, rather than "flesh". Now in the Kingdom of God through Jesus Messiah, and the new generation of Sons of God. Led by Him...receiving orders from the head.

Read the word of Isaiah and the stuttering speech. Try the Amplified version since it spells it out so strong.

 

[PeterJens]

How does one obtain a "sincerely repented heart"? And who determines if someone is sincere enough?

This is a truly profound question.
And the answer is an eternal one, because its real definition and depth is found in our
communion with the Lord and in a sense while we see things from our perspective we will
always fail to see things fully from His perspective.

This keeps us humble and we can never presume to know or understand but lean on our
Lord and King for direction and inspiration.

At least this is my take on my walk and my grasp of our Lord and where we stand, though
apart yet brought in, though partially seeing, yet privileged to be included.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi Grace,

Confession and repentance cleanses us because we sinned. That sin is not righteous. The fact that we're declared righteous in Christ, when we sin it's sinful, dirty, ugly. It must be acknowledge as sin or we'll continue on in that sin because it's not being brought into the light. Sin is walking in darkness.

I don't need cleansing to become righteous and I've never heard that teaching and I've been in a few churches, not just one denomination. And even if some teach that, we don't throw the verse away because someone teaches it in error. God's word is precious and righteous.

Repentance brings us back into a right relationship with our Lord. There's something between us when we sin just like there's something between 2 people when they've done something against the other. Until they ask for forgiveness for the sin against them, there will always be a strained relationship.

That's how I feel when I have sinned against someone. I feel bad, I want to make amends, I want to ask for forgiveness and make it right with them. Because I love them and that's what love does.

And that's what John is teaching. Those who are walking in the light will bring their sinful deeds to the light so that they can continue on walking in the light. Stepping into darkness is stepping away from God in our heart. We end up leaving Him and His ways for awhile. We've gotten dirty and need to be washed up. Our actions have not been pure and we need to acknowledge our sin before Him.

In John, he's talking to, "my little children". Not gnostics. If fact all of the NT letters are written to believers.

I'm finding that it's becoming a habit of false teachers to continually take away the scriptures. Old Testament is now gone. Some go as far as to say that they only follow Paul. You have even said that Jesus' teachings are OT. And there are some false teachers that tell you not to bring your bible. I wonder why? Sounds like the enemy is afoot.

In Matthew 28, Jesus said that the apostles would preach the gospel of the kingdom. All of Jesus' teaching in the gospel writings are His teachings about how we are to live in the kingdom. And Jesus said that the apostles would go out into the world to make disciples, that they would baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And Jesus told them to teach the disciples to obey ALL of Jesus' teachings. ALL, not some, but all.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

All scripture is inspired by God. Not just the NT, but All. And when Paul said this he was referring to the OT because there wasn't a NT yet.

Paul spoke of the need for cleansing.
2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

James does as well.
James 4:10 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.

I dont know Grace why you were stuck. I've always felt so pure after confessing and never felt stuck. And the bad that I felt when I saw that I sinned was freeing because it brought me right to the feet of Jesus. I went to the only one who would forgive me and had/has the power to change me from within. How can one feel stuck when they go before the Lord of all mercy and all grace?

And maybe you don't confess to be cleansed, but I do. Just as I get dirty in the natural when I work and sweat and get stinky, so it is spiritually as well. I get stinky when I've stepped into sin. A lie, a piece of gossip, an unkind word, wrongful judging, worrying about the cares of the world......whatever it might be, I get dirty and need a bath in the arms of God's redeeming love. That's one part of the manifold beauty of His grace.

Hi DR...I agree...When i sin, i know it and can not let that sin sit in me, its impossible, i believe the Holy Spirit brings it to our mind, to repent and confess our wrongs and say to the the Lord " Yes Lord you are right" in my eyes if we do not repent and change our ways, move forward, we hide the sin, not acknowledging it is dangerous ground, if we do not confess each sin, they build up and we lose sight of walking in our Lord, our heart hardens and that is why it is a bad habit to get into by not repenting...I believe as we walk with the Holy Spirit, it is He who calls our sins to mind, He is our helper, He helps when we fail Him, He helps us to walk upright with Him at all times,there is no darkness in God, so walking with unrepentant sin i believe is wrong also, the two just don`t go together, like oil and water...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dude your sinful perfection, and filthy rags confession will be left wanting when weighted in the balance on judgement day...Are you so foolish to believe that the more you sin the more grace you receive? If so, you have no clue what grace really is. You truly have perfected sin.............

dude, you have no idea what D.C. Believes, so please, unless your going to humble yourself and take the time to find out, I suggest you back off. All your dong is hurting yourself, and you will give an account one say, I would worry about self, instead trying to shame and attack others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Like all HGs, you have no clue what grace actually is....If you think more sin causes more grace you are even more deceived than I thought...Deceived people don't know they are deceived, that the horror of it. God said STRONG delusion, not just ordinary delusion buddy....it appears by your own words that you have indeed perfected the works of sin (sinful perfectionist).........try presenting your filthy rags on judgment day and see how well that works when they are weight in the balance and found wanting.........

like I said in another thread, anyone who teaches grace is now a HG believer, dude, DC des NT teach more sin equals more grace, so please get off your legalistic high horse.

 

[PeterJens]

Peter

The baptism of Holy Spirit threw precepts out of the window. Precepts are line upon line, here a little, there a little....and is certainly not the victorious life of being Spirit, rather than "flesh". Now in the Kingdom of God through Jesus Messiah, and the new generation of Sons of God. Led by Him...receiving orders from the head.

Read the word of Isaiah and the stuttering speech. Try the Amplified version since it spells it out so strong.

If you really think precepts and the whole order of the Lord is thrown out of the window
because you have an emotional response to God, then you have lost the plot.

It is the Lord who brought the law and the rules of existance. They are not temporary but
eternal. What has changed is how love and communion with the King bring us into victory
and fulfillment of the law of Christ so we can walk in obedience to it.

You appear to be suggesting this is not the Lords way.

Rather it is your rebellion against man made constraints on your life that you are rebelling
against and assuming these are Gods principles. It is why you need to listen to Jesus very
closely and learn to know His heart.

Now this may sound judgemental but the lie is to believe God has ever contradicted His
laws, the basis of what love and righteousness are, and we are free to behave as we like.

Paul puts it like this, in the Spirit we are slaves to righteousness, we literally desire to do the
right thing and as far as possible we walk in it, while learning and growing as we do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

grace is the influencing power of the Spirit upon the sincerely repented heart to live righteously, godly, and soberly in this PRESENT world............be blessed

No, grace is the power of God to salvation to all who believe,

the HS and power of God in a believers heart is the power of influence which causes a truly repentant heart to learn to bcomchristlike in the PRESENT world, and by it be blessed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do yes. Let's be honest sin does affect our relationship and antything that does needs to be dealt with.

The Hey Son is the Holy Spirit telling me I didn't get that right and at that point yes I confess to God, admit I got it wrong tell him I and sorry and ask him to help me.

i think as scripture sad, his sheep know his voice and follow

the danger is when the enemy comes and acts as an angel of light, with a sweet voice, and we start believing what the enemy said, things like you sinner, how dare you, you think God is going to love you after doing that? God will never accept you, look at how much you have sinned, or are sinning etc etc.

thats when gods people risk getting taken down or turned.

 

[Cee]

I wouldn't say we will always fail to see like Him because Paul says we have the same Spirit that is in God. And He reveals these things to us. But I do believe we should be in continual relationship with Him.

This is a truly profound question.
And the answer is an eternal one, because its real definition and depth is found in our
communion with the Lord and in a sense while we see things from our perspective we will
always fail to see things fully from His perspective.

This keeps us humble and we can never presume to know or understand but lean on our
Lord and King for direction and inspiration.

At least this is my take on my walk and my grasp of our Lord and where we stand, though
apart yet brought in, though partially seeing, yet privileged to be included.

 

[Cee]

If you believe others can be deceived and come under "strong delusion" how do you know you're not the one who is deceived?

That mindset is an incredibly slippery slope...

But, Scripture doesn't teach believers are going to be deceived.

It teaches the exact opposite:

Matt 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Inferring it's not possible.

 

[mailmandan]

But, Scripture doesn't teach believers are going to be deceived.

It teaches the exact opposite:

Matt 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Inferring it's not possible.

Amen! As greek scholar AT Robertson points out in Matthew 24:24 - These charlatans will be so skilful that they will, if possible (ei dunaton), lead astray the very elect. The implication is that it is not possible.

 

[PHart]

But, Scripture doesn't teach believers are going to be deceived.

At least not deceived forever. But ultimately, in the end, the believer who falls away from the faith does so out of a willful, conscious decision to do so. Somewhere along the way he/she CHOOSES to walk away from trust in Christ. Deceived saints can be restored. Willful Christ rejectors can not.

 

[PHart]

Amen! As greek scholar AT Robertson points out in Matthew 24:24 - These charlatans will be so skilful that they will, if possible (ei dunaton), lead astray the very elect. The implication is that it is not possible.

That's why we need to keep believing. All the promises and all the power belong to the believing. We continue to be saved by our continuing believing (1 Corinthians 15:1-2).

 

[Stephen63]

Your example doesn't say what you said. You said John wrote to the gnostics.

I said he wrote to the believers and addressed the false teaching of gnosticism. John called the recipients, "my little children".

Your examples shows that John addressed gnosticism, not that he wrote to gnostics. It's a huge difference. John addressed the false teaching so that his little children would not fall into their false teaching.

Hi DR,

(This isn't at you)

He gets caught all the time doing that..... & folks still call him a brother.

It's shameful how some folks can't discern a godly person from a form of godliness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen! As greek scholar AT Robertson points out in Matthew 24:24 - These charlatans will be so skilful that they will, if possible (ei dunaton), lead astray the very elect. The implication is that it is not possible.

if possible, another one of those words or phrases that people ignore or twist.

It is sad people will just not take God at his word,

 

[Stephen63]

How does one obtain a "sincerely repented heart"? And who determines if someone is sincere enough?

A sincerely repented heart will show the proper fruit.....

Don't you know anything about fruit bearing?