Not By Works

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DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Your true colors are showing more and more now. Works salvationist. This explains a lot!
So let me understand your logic, because i believe what the above verse says, my colors are being shown. Praise God. Your colors also are being revealed, you do not believe that inspired by God verse, therefore let us see how you will explain away that verse to mean something entirely different from what it actually says, let us see shall we:

He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned." If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


And there you have it. The verse says you must be baptized, but YOU say "Nope, don't have to be, just have to believe" Does anyone else see how this is illogical.

God said to me "If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG"

i believe Scriptures which teach. He that believes in Jesus AND is baptized shall be Saved. i believe that because that is what Scriptures teach.
i do not believe mailmandan which teaches what he says above, making void that Holy Inspired Word of God to fit his own doctrine. Just look above and see the PROOF how he changes what the Word of God plainly says to mean something entirely different, and does so to make it fit into what he thinks is the TRUTH.^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
Mar 7, 2016
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John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." See John 2:23-25 (where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature); John 8:31 (where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin [v. 34], indifferent to Jesus’ word [v. 37], children of the devil [v. 44], liars [v. 55], guilty of setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in (v. 59).

After Jesus’ teaching we read in 6:60 that "many of his disciples . . . said," ‘This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?’ These are the very so called "disciples" who Jesus says "do not believe" and Jesus knew this from the beginning (John 6:64). They also walked with Him no more. They did not continue. If we continue in His word, then we demonstrate that we are TRULY His disciples (John 8:31). Those who fail to continue in His word demonstrate that they are not truly His disciples.
mate the truth is that you and others are denying the words that Jesus spoke.. we are all deciples learning his word,,, we are not all colledge graduates with a masters in theology of the bible..)

So basically what your saying is for the saved people.... they dont have to obey his teaching no more ??? only the believers who are not saved ?..
 
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Ansd i care to remmeber being told by your followers that all you have to do is believe,,, so your now twisting that to say you have to believe and have faith... funny thing i thought believe in Jesus was to have faith in him also...

This is really twisting scripture to deny the truth... and dc... why resort to telling me to get a life... thats a bit nasty have to say...
 
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Sully

Guest
Ansd i care to remmeber being told by your followers that all you have to do is believe,,, so your now twisting that to say you have to believe and have faith... funny thing i thought believe in Jesus was to have faith in him also...

This is really twisting scripture to deny the truth... and dc... why resort to telling me to get a life... thats a bit nasty have to say...
You accused him of not being saved and one who holds the dictionary in higher regard than God's word....What kind of works are these oh one who knows what's in the hearts of others?
 
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So in a nut shell when Jesus was talking to the jews who had believed in him... at this point they are not saved ?....

So basically your saying you can believe in him but not be saved....( i thought your theology was for the works of God is to believe in him.... ?..........

sO WE NEED SOME LIGHT I THINK....Jesus said you need to pratice what you preach... (now did he say that so that they may stay believers or become saved ... im confused ? he was talking to his deciples not the judaism faith
 
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Sully

Guest
So in a nut shell when Jesus was talking to the jews who had believed in him... at this point they are not saved ?....

So basically your saying you can believe in him but not be saved....( i thought your theology was for the works of God is to believe in him.... ?..........

sO WE NEED SOME LIGHT I THINK....Jesus said you need to pratice what you preach... (now did he say that so that they may stay believers or become saved ... im confused ? he was talking to his deciples not the judaism faith
I'm just saying you better hope it isn't works that save you cuz yours are weeds of false condemnation...
 
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You accused him of not being saved and one who holds the dictionary in higher regard than God's word....What kind of works are these oh one who knows what's in the hearts of others?
hA NO ON THE CONTRARY I WANT MY MATE DC TO REMAIN SAVED AS I THINK HES WORTH IT :)
 
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sO THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS... being eternaly saved........

Now the faith first... believers... the faith alone beivers...........the faith and works believers....the works first believers.... the works and faith believers.....

So which one should i choose...?....................
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
So let me understand your logic, because i believe what the above verse says, my colors are being shown. Praise God. Your colors also are being revealed, you do not believe that inspired by God verse, therefore let us see how you will explain away that verse to mean something entirely different from what it actually says, let us see shall we:



[/B]And there you have it. The verse says you must be baptized, but YOU say "Nope, don't have to be, just have to believe" Does anyone else see how this is illogical.

God said to me "If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG"

i believe Scriptures which teach. He that believes in Jesus AND is baptized shall be Saved. i believe that because that is what Scriptures teach.
i do not believe mailmandan which teaches what he says above, making void that Holy Inspired Word of God to fit his own doctrine. Just look above and see the PROOF how he changes what the Word of God plainly says to mean something entirely different, and does so to make it fit into what he thinks is the TRUTH.^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
All who believe are baptised. If you haven't been, then you haven't believed.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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I would say none of them because there all made up names by people who deny God :rolleyes:
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
A perfect example of FAITH + WORKS = SAVED.
We are saved through faith, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9). Your true colors have now fully surfaced. You are a works salvationist. :( This explains a lot!
You are Saved by Faith and Works. Tell me, in order to be SAVED, must a person confess? Must they repent? Must they call upon the Lord? All of these things are Works.

As to you comment on me being a works salvationist. i know not what that is. But if it is a {Faith + Works = Salvation} belief, Than i most certainly am. But if it is a {Works = Salvation} belief, Than i am most certainly NOT.

Believing is the Faith part, the getting baptised is the WORK part, but this generation thinks FAITH ONLY is enough, they believe the one verse above, and ignore, void, or interpret away all the other verses that teach what it means to be SAVED.

No, you ignore the context of Mark 16:16 and a multitude of verses that make it clear that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" - (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39: 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8 etc..).
Do you have ears and not hear what i have said to you repeatedly? i 100% believe all those verses which teaching Believing to be Saved. What you fail to understand, is we are talking about all the other verses which plainly teach ________ to be SAVED also. Confessing is not believing now is it. Scriptures teach that you must confess in order to be Saved. Therefore that in and of itself is a WORK, which for some reason you seem to be unable to grasp. i believe all those verses 100% which teach Believing to be Saved. The difference between you and i, (it seems) is you ONLY believe those verses and not believe all the other verses which plainly teach believing ONLY is not enough. That is the problem.

What a genuine believer means by salvation through "faith in Christ alone" and what James means by "faith only" is NOT the same message.
James plainly teaches that Faith without Works is dead. You can't or won't believe that, because that does not line up with the Truth that you hold on to, does it. So this is yet another verse that you will need to explain away in order to feel good about yourself not believing it. i mean if it means something else other than what it says, then that is what you need to do, right. God forbid you have to change your belief to fit Scriptures. NO, much easier to change Scriptures to fit what you believe. Hence the reason we have over 120 different denominations in the Christian Faith alone. Scriptures teach to : Have one mind, to : Think the same thing. NO not this generation let us change this verse or that verse to fit into what we believe is the TRUTH. much weeping and gnashing of teeth. It would be better for a person to change what they believe to line up with Scriptures, than to change the Word of God to line up with YOUR belief.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *Please listen closely - *James does not teach that we are saved by works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
What i seen in all that you say here, is a brother desperately trying to change Scriptures and what it plainly and clearly says into something that will line up with what YOU believe.

Faith without works is dead. is so simple that children could understand it. But for those who don't believe it, well what is their options
1) ignore the verse.
2) interpret the verse to mean something else
3) go to the Hebrew and Greek and see if they can change the meanings of each one of the words
4) Do what Mailmandan has done above.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
Mar 7, 2016
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So let me understand your logic, because i believe what the above verse says, my colors are being shown. Praise God. Your colors also are being revealed, you do not believe that inspired by God verse, therefore let us see how you will explain away that verse to mean something entirely different from what it actually says, let us see shall we:



[/B]And there you have it. The verse says you must be baptized, but YOU say "Nope, don't have to be, just have to believe" Does anyone else see how this is illogical.

God said to me "If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG"

i believe Scriptures which teach. He that believes in Jesus AND is baptized shall be Saved. i believe that because that is what Scriptures teach.
i do not believe mailmandan which teaches what he says above, making void that Holy Inspired Word of God to fit his own doctrine. Just look above and see the PROOF how he changes what the Word of God plainly says to mean something entirely different, and does so to make it fit into what he thinks is the TRUTH.^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
Yup the whole word and not one context..:)
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
You are Saved by Faith and Works. Tell me, in order to be SAVED, must a person confess? Must they repent? Must they call upon the Lord? All of these things are Works.

As to you comment on me being a works salvationist. i know not what that is. But if it is a {Faith + Works = Salvation} belief, Than i most certainly am. But if it is a {Works = Salvation} belief, Than i am most certainly NOT.

Do you have ears and not hear what i have said to you repeatedly? i 100% believe all those verses which teaching Believing to be Saved. What you fail to understand, is we are talking about all the other verses which plainly teach ________ to be SAVED also. Confessing is not believing now is it. Scriptures teach that you must confess in order to be Saved. Therefore that in and of itself is a WORK, which for some reason you seem to be unable to grasp. i believe all those verses 100% which teach Believing to be Saved. The difference between you and i, (it seems) is you ONLY believe those verses and not believe all the other verses which plainly teach believing ONLY is not enough. That is the problem

James plainly teaches that Faith without Works is dead. You can't or won't believe that, because that does not line up with the Truth that you hold on to, does it. So this is yet another verse that you will need to explain away in order to feel good about yourself not believing it. i mean if it means something else other than what it says, then that is what you need to do, right. God forbid you have to change your belief to fit Scriptures. NO, much easier to change Scriptures to fit what you believe. Hence the reason we have over 120 different denominations in the Christian Faith alone. Scriptures teach to : Have one mind, to : Think the same thing. NO not this generation let us change this verse or that verse to fit into what we believe is the TRUTH. much weeping and gnashing of teeth. It would be better for a person to change what they believe to line up with Scriptures, than to change the Word of God to line up with YOUR belief
What i seen in all that you say here, is a brother desperately trying to change Scriptures and what it plainly and clearly says into something that will line up with what YOU believe.

Faith without works is dead. is so simple that children could understand it. But for those who don't believe it, well what is their options
1) ignore the verse.
2) interpret the verse to mean something else
3) go to the Hebrew and Greek and see if they can change the meanings of each one of the words
4) Do what Mailmandan has done above.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave


LOL. Whose the one trying to change Scripture?

" For it it by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph. 2:8-9
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
70
48
Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together.
Again, desperately trying to hold on to the Truth that you THINK you have. i would think 99% of all Christians who were Saved in a Church, would disagree with you, on what you say above. The Preacher preached his message, and it was at that time they believed that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus died for them. It is ONLY at the end of the sermon, is there an alter call to GET SAVED. It is AFTER they believed in Jesus that they go up and confess, and repent of their sins, it is at that time they pray for Jesus to live in them. So they believed while sitting in the pew, they were SAVED LATER after they confessed and repented. They do not happen at the same time. Even you testify against yourself by using the word chronological, which is one thing AFTER another. Tell me, what person gets up to go get Saved at the Alter, that does not believe Jesus is the Son of God? They get up to go to the alter because they believe. Are they SAVED because they believed at that time. or Are they Saved because they Repent and confess, AFTER they believed?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
Mar 7, 2016
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LOL. Whose the one trying to change Scripture?

" For it it by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph. 2:8-9
no hes not changing scripture...you guys are taking the goodness away from scripture coz,,,,,,you deny God..:eek:
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
baptism of water is holy and sacred...why wouldnt you want to do that ?
There you go, going way beyond what is written and imagining things. :rolleyes:

There is only one baptism that saves, and it ain't John the Baptists.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
no hes not changing scripture...you guys are taking the goodness away from scripture coz,,,,,,you deny God..:eek:
Thankfully we have Gods clear and undeniable truth so we can know the source and destiny of those like yourself who boast of their works saving them.
 
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There you go, going way beyond what is written and imagining things. :rolleyes:

There is only one baptism that saves, and it ain't John the Baptists.
wrong johne the baptist prepared the way for the one to come...:)