Not By Works

[BillG]

There is more to Christianity than what some believe,but some people made it relaxed,no pressure,no worries,no works,sin does not affect their relationship with God,were chosen in the beginning so they cannot fall,because they like to believe that so they can hold unto the world,and the flesh,and believe they are still right with God.

I assume your above quote is rendered towards others on this thread. If so

Big statement and accusation to make.
If my thoughts are correct please back them up.

If not then I say sorry to you.

 

[preacher4truth]

I assume your above quote is rendered towards others on this thread. If so

Big statement and accusation to make.
If my thoughts are correct please back them up.

If not then I say sorry to you.

Hard to tell who you are quoting/referring to...

 

[UnderGrace]

Well when one has worked on skid row with the down and out, mostly teenagers,

one sees people become truly born again, but they do not have much to give...all they have is daily survival

or the better question why wouldn't someone who is saved "not" one to do works for Jesus?

 

[dcontroversal]

It doesn't matter if you've met a thousand pastors. This error is widespread. The church has been destroyed by what James warns us in regard to dead faith. The church totally ignores James' teaching because they have not been taught how to reconcile it correctly with Paul's teaching about justification. You can not see this because you apparently are a part of it. Just like how a JW can't see the error of what he is a part of. Those of us outside of it can see it clearly.

You really have no understanding of James, context and your misapplication of the truth......in reality it is this working for, keeping yourself righteous and saved that has ruined the truth and every person I know that has come out of that lie stated clearly that it leads to bondage and no hope....

Your dogma = the plenteous in number......and you seeing clearly takes the cake for misnomers......hilariously tragic I might add

 

[BillG]

If a person goes to prayer and asks for forgiveness, How is that not a WORK?
If a person OBEYS the promptings of the Holy Spirit, How is that not a WORK?
If a person LOVES others, how is that done without any WORKS?
If a person is drawn to the Lord, how is FOLLOWING not a WORK?

Believing in Jesus is NOT a Work, that is Faith.
But ANYTHING you DO, is a WORK.

Praying = Work
Loving others = Work
Confessing = Work
Repenting = Work
Reading the Word = Work
Studying the Word = Work
Going to Church = Work
Helping those in need = Work
Feeding the Hungry = Work
Clothing the naked = Work
Visiting the elderly and those in prison = Work
Witnessing about Jesus = Work
Testifying about Jesus = Work
Praising God = Work

All these things are things that YOU DO, and they are Works. Those who think and believe that believing in Jesus is enough, and that none of these Works are required believe a lie that satan teaches.
Scriptures plainly teach those who TRULY believe in Jesus will DO what He says, and He says, and even COMMANDS us to Love One Another, which is nothing but Works. Woe to this generation who teaches Faith Only is enough, they believe that believing in Jesus is all that is required and therefore need not any works at all, how will they escape His wrath when Scriptures plainly teaches over and over and over again that Faith AND Works go hand in hand not one without the Other.
Those who teach Believing only is enough, lie.
Those who teach Works only is enough, lie.
Those who teach Believing in Jesus and OBEYING the Scriptures, which is nothing but Works, will be accepted with Him.

Faith - Works = Dead : This is Scriptural
Works - Faith = Dead : This is Scriptural
Faith + Works = Life Everlasting : This is Scriptural

The Parable of Jesus separating the Goats from the Sheep is this.
The Goats believed in Jesus calling Him "Lord" but they had no works at all, they did not Love One Another.
The Sheep believed in Jesus calling Him "Lord" and their belief was backed up by their works, they did Love One Another.
It is plainly written that no man can call Jesus "Lord" but by the Holy Ghost. Both Goats and Sheep in the parable called Jesus "Lord" all of you would do well to take heed to this parable. Those who believe that believing in Jesus is all that you need to do, are no different than the goats in the Parable. Those who believe and have works are no different than the the sheep in the Parable.
Which one would you say you are? Goats which believed in Jesus but had no works at all, or the Sheep which believed in Jesus and also had works?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Hi DiscipleDave.

Thanks for your post above and I have to say that I agree with you.
Often on this thread I have referenced the sheep and the goats. (Ps side note is there a plural for sheep)

To me we are called to do good works and those works were predestined for us as a result of faith which actually saves us.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

So therefore anything we do as a result of faith is a work if it shows Jesus in us, in order show Jesus to others.
I also add to this even our enemies as Jesus also said love your enemies and do good to those who hate you.

Its easy to show love to those whom we love and it's an easy work, but it's harder to show love to our enemies.

At the end of the day our works should be motivated by love and not in order to be loved. Whether it be by others or God.
Just being Jesus here on earth.

We love because he first loved us.

 

[dcontroversal]

That's what I've been saying, lol! You have to keep believing in order to stay saved!

But you can only hear that as, "you have to keep working to earn salvation". You're a victim of this end times church. You can not hear what I'm saying because you have been taught, directly or indirectly, that to say faith has to work for it to be revealed as true justifying faith is to say that works justify. I'm am in no way saying that. The problem is that is all you are able to hear.

Exactly why your dogma is false.....your dogma denies that JESUS is the one that KEEPS US SAVED BY HIS POWER, he is the one that starts, finishes and completes our faith.....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Nice twist, not what you teach...I have seen you say not less than a few times that YOU MUST MAINTAIN FAITH....puts it square on your shoulders and not JESUS.....try again

 

[BillG]

Hard to tell who you are quoting/referring to...

Sorry thought it would also quote the name to whom I was responding to.

It was MattforJesus

 

[dcontroversal]

Me too.

I honestly believe the day is coming when those of us who hold this doctrine will be martyred. I'm not a prophet. I don't know when, but I just sense that the present hostility towards what we believe will spill out into open violence towards us one day. Hopefully, not in my lifetime. I'm beginning to see how all this is the spirit of anti-christ at work preparing the world for the Man of Perdition to appear.

You have to make a stand for the truth to be martyred for the truth....you don't quite meet that description....now the plenteous in number grouping....that description you meet.....because You think you keep yourself saved....my bible does not teach that..it teaches that JESSU keeps us by HIS POWER not what we do which = a works based dogma

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

If a person goes to prayer and asks for forgiveness, How is that not a WORK?
If a person OBEYS the promptings of the Holy Spirit, How is that not a WORK?
If a person LOVES others, how is that done without any WORKS?
If a person is drawn to the Lord, how is FOLLOWING not a WORK?

Believing in Jesus is NOT a Work, that is Faith.
But ANYTHING you DO, is a WORK.

Praying = Work
Loving others = Work
Confessing = Work
Repenting = Work
Reading the Word = Work
Studying the Word = Work
Going to Church = Work
Helping those in need = Work
Feeding the Hungry = Work
Clothing the naked = Work
Visiting the elderly and those in prison = Work
Witnessing about Jesus = Work
Testifying about Jesus = Work
Praising God = Work

All these things are things that YOU DO, and they are Works. Those who think and believe that believing in Jesus is enough, and that none of these Works are required believe a lie that satan teaches.
Scriptures plainly teach those who TRULY believe in Jesus will DO what He says, and He says, and even COMMANDS us to Love One Another, which is nothing but Works. Woe to this generation who teaches Faith Only is enough, they believe that believing in Jesus is all that is required and therefore need not any works at all, how will they escape His wrath when Scriptures plainly teaches over and over and over again that Faith AND Works go hand in hand not one without the Other.
Those who teach Believing only is enough, lie.
Those who teach Works only is enough, lie.
Those who teach Believing in Jesus and OBEYING the Scriptures, which is nothing but Works, will be accepted with Him.

Faith - Works = Dead : This is Scriptural
Works - Faith = Dead : This is Scriptural
Faith + Works = Life Everlasting : This is Scriptural

The Parable of Jesus separating the Goats from the Sheep is this.
The Goats believed in Jesus calling Him "Lord" but they had no works at all, they did not Love One Another.
The Sheep believed in Jesus calling Him "Lord" and their belief was backed up by their works, they did Love One Another.
It is plainly written that no man can call Jesus "Lord" but by the Holy Ghost. Both Goats and Sheep in the parable called Jesus "Lord" all of you would do well to take heed to this parable. Those who believe that believing in Jesus is all that you need to do, are no different than the goats in the Parable. Those who believe and have works are no different than the the sheep in the Parable.
Which one would you say you are? Goats which believed in Jesus but had no works at all, or the Sheep which believed in Jesus and also had works?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DscipleDave, nice to meet you, these are wonderful works that you have listed here; but we are not saved by them nor are we kept saved by our wonderful works to God. The works that we bring to God to maintain our salvation is self centered and foolish. You diminish the work of the Cross if you add your self righteousness = Cainology. Our works are about sanctification and the pursuit of Holiness; leave the saving and justifying up to Jesus, not our wonderful works. Where is the humility. If you do not see humility in your Church leadership, run don't walk to the nearest exit.

God bless

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My commandments

So those who Love Jesus, MUST keep His Commandments, yes or no?

John 15:10 If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in His love.

So then, those who keep His Commandments are they that abide in His Love. Do you believe this verse. Yes or no?
So then, those who do NOT keep His Commandment are NOT abiding in His Love, correct, yes or no?

I John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Again, yet another verse that plainly teaches those who Keep His Commandments abide in Him, those who do NOT keep His commandments, even though they say they know Him, are liars, and they do not know the TRUTH. Do you believe this verse, yes or no?

Who are they that abide in Him according to Scriptures?

1Jn_3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Makes since, because we know that Scriptures teach whoever you choose to obey is your master, if you choose to obey sin, then guess who your master is.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Who has right to the TREE OF LIFE? Those who keep His Commandments.
Do you think a person can claim to be SAVED and NOT keep His Commandments, answer Yes or No?

Scriptures plainly teach that those who Keep His Commandments have the right to the TREE OF LIFE. Therefore those who fail to keep His Commandments will NOT have the right to the TREE of LIFE, correct? Or do you think something contrary to that statement?

So then the question is, What are His Commandments, that we are commanded to keep and commanded that we MUST do in order to be Saved (Right to the Tree of Life)?

Do we believe what men teach that "His Commandments" are the 10 commandments? Or should we believe Scriptures which plainly tells us what "His Commandments" are? Believe Scriptures not what men teach.

Now pay attention here, i am about to reveal to you the Scriptures which plainly says and teaches what His Commandments Are, something that we MUST do in order to be Saved. Pay attention because those who believe false doctrines will refuse to hear these Scriptures, they will either ignore them entirely, make them void, or interpret them away, all so they do not have to give up the false doctrines that they hold on to for dear life, again, pay attention, these are from the Word of God, from the Apostle John himself, who ate, walked with God, And heard from God himself, inspired by the Holy Ghost to write exactly as he has written for us to read today. Pay attention here it is.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

So whatever they ask in prayer they receive from God because why? Because they Keep His Commandments. Do you ask and receive for whatever you ask for? Maybe because you do NOT keep His Commandments, you do NOT get everything you ask for from God.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is His commandment, That we should 1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, AND 2) love one another, as he gave us commandment.

There you have it, straight from the Holy Scriptures. Those who are TRUE Christians, and are TRULY Saved will Keep His Commandments, as does Scriptures plainly teaches. And what are His Commandments according to Scriptures, they are 1) Believe in Jesus and 2) Love One Another.
So then believing in Jesus = Faith
So then Loving One Another = Works
So then Faith and Works go hand in hand, one without the Other. Those who Truly Keep His Commandments DO BOTH, because Scriptures plainly just told us that BOTH is His Commandments. Woe to those who teach Faith without works can save you, they are deceived and do not believe these Scriptures presented above. Those who are Saved, Keep His Commandments. His Commandments are to 1) believe in Jesus (Faith) AND 2) Love One Another (Works) Woe to those who Believe Faith only can save you. And woe to those who believe Works only can save you. These both are blind and ignorant to the TRUTH of Scriptures. Scriptures plainly teach Faith + Works = Saved. But those who believe otherwise are blind and will not grasp the Truth of these Scriptures, because if they did, that would mean they would have to give up sinning, and that is just not going to happen to a generation who loves to continue to live in sin, day after day after day.

Who does Jesus dwell inside of? Scriptures plainly teach that Jesus dwells in those who Keep His Commandments, and what are His Commandments. believe in Jesus AND Love One Another.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


Woe to this generation who claim that they are Saved, and yet do NOT Keep His Commandments. Scriptures are True, those who claim to be Saved and live in sin, do lie and do not know the TRUTH, even when it is presented to them, Cursed Children. The Sheppard calls, and they refuse to come to the light, because they like where they are at in their life, they love to sin, and are not willing to get rid of that sin that so easily besets them.
Scriptures is the Sheppard, but who in this generation hearkens to and believes ALL of the Scriptures?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

A very astute and indepth truthful answer,I looked this post over and all of it is true regarding it's overall answer in regards if works are still important,we are not saved by works,but are saved through believing in "AND" accepting Jesus as saviour not simple belief alone,faith alone in that Jesus can and will save you through accepting him as saviour is true,but one must consider too that in the final end that one must do good works in Christ otherwise they have taken the gift of salvation and squandered it.

Believing AND Loving One Another, is what is required for one to be Saved, unless of coarse you are unable to Love one another, such as death bed confessions.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[dcontroversal]

Dear Phart, this is not what Jesus taught nor does the bible teach. What if someone were to die tonight and they had a doubting moment of unbelief because of some traumatic event in their life, like Peter denying Christ three times. They would not lose their salvation. This is just silliness. If it were possible for you/me to lose our salvation we probably would. God and the Holy Spirit keep you saved. If someone is having issues with their salvation and they run away from God's will for their life, He will bring them back, go ask Jonah. Trust in God for your salvation not your wonderful works, today and forever.

If keep believing is your gospel, it is false. God will will keep us until that day not my self effort.

"Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy," Jude1:24

God who began the good work in you and me and He will finish the good work, it is not about;
"keep believing."

True Gospel

AMEN.....a gospel that states I MUST to remain saved = false works based ideology...end of story....The bible is clear...WE ARE KEPT by HIS POWER...those who say we can lose it, deny his power as sufficient.....end of story....

 

[dcontroversal]

Scriptures teach Faith and Works go hand in hand.
Those who keep His Commandments are SAVED.

Scriptures plainly teach His Commandments are
1) Believe on Him
and
2) LOVE ONE ANOTHER

Those who merely believe on Him (Faith) But do not have the Works that back up that Faith (Love One Another) believe a false doctrine. Believe Scriptures not men who teach Faith ONLY is enough.

Can you, i doubt you will, answer me this question. Tell me how you can Love One Another that is not a WORK? Can you give an example how someone can Love Another, and that example NOT BE A WORK.

Those who teach Faith ONLY is enough are decieved and believe a lie from satan. They believe that believing in Jesus they do not need to have any Works whatsoever, they need to NOT love one another at all, and they are still fine. They are deceived and know not the TRUTH.

Scriptures over and over again teach Faith (believe in Christ) and Works (obey, do good, cease from sinning, confess, pray, be nice, be kind, and above all LOVE ONE ANOTHER, all of these things are WORKS)

Woe to them who teach others that Faith ONLY IS ENOUGH, contrary to the very scriptures they say they believe. NO, these pick and choose verses that teach Believing in Jesus Saves you, all the while they ignore all the many Scriptures which teach Faith AND Works Saves you. Woe to them indeed, because if they believe that Faith ONLY is enough, why would they desire to have works, why would they desire to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, which Jesus Christ Commanded us to Do.

Jesus our Lord and Savior COMMANDED us to Love One Another, He COMMANDED us to have Works. Woe to those who believe Faith ONLY is enough, and woe to them who believe WORKS ONLY is enough, BOTH will suffer His wrath when it comes upon the whole Earth. But those who Have and Faith AND Works, that is to say they believe in Jesus AND Love One Another will be accepted by Him, and they are a very few who find this narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting.

Woe to those who teach Faith only is enough, that believing ONLY is enough, they believe a lie taught by satan and not what the whole of Scriptures teach. These pick and choose which verses they will believe and which ones they will ignore, make void, or interpret away. ONLY those who believe ALL verses will be accepted by Him when He Returns.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Dave....the day you equated yourself to a prophet and said Jesus would call you by your CC name and reference your words in judgment against the lost ended any and all credibility you have with me as being from God.....the bible does not teach faith plus works to gain, keep, facilitate salvation......it is clear it is by faith through grace void of human effort, merit, works and or obeyance to any law.....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE<----NO WORKS mentioned....and JAMES does not contradict that nor does it contradict PAUL....We conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law (works)

 

[dcontroversal]

Exactly: unbelief.

... It seems you are finally seeing it.

They cannot lose that which they never had in the first place.

AMEN.......obvious hey....to all who do not trust in themselves over the power and promises of God.....

 

[DiscipleDave]

Those who Keep His Commandments are those that have the right to the Tree of Life.
Those who fail to Keep His Commandments are those that have NO right to the Tree of Life.
Those who love Jesus WILL keep His Commandments.
Those who claim to love Jesus and do NOT keep His Commandments are liars, and these do not know Truth even though they think they do.
Scriptures plainly teach what "His Commandments" are:

1) Believe on Jesus
2) Love One Another.

IF a person fails to do BOTH, they altogether and entirely FAIL to keep His Commandments. That is the TRUTH, and is no lie.
Woe to anyone who believes otherwise, because they believe a false doctrine that teaches otherwise.
The Word of God is True, the words of men lies.
Believe Scriptures, not men.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[UnderGrace]

Well if I am reading this correctly then you have accomplished a lot because you have done it.

My response, I have the righteousness of Christ Jesus and because of His righteousness I grow in His grace and learn about His love more completely each day, so that sin has no dominion over me

For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Romans 6:14

And to answer your question, I do not battle my sin I focus on Jesus and He has promised me to win by His grace in me

What sin do you think would be impossible to quit? Can you name one?

i have stopped smoking because i gave it up for Jesus Christ. Do you think that i still don't need Him when i still desire to smoke?
i have given up PORN. Do you think that i do not need Him when satan tempts me to look at porn?
i have given up Lusting. Do you think that i do not need Him when satan tempts me to lust?
i have given up sex. Do you think that i do not need Jesus when i am tempted to have sex?

The Strength and Power of Jesus Christ can you a person stop from any Sin. But you will always need His Strength and Power against that sin, because satan does not stop tempting you to do that sin, just because you quit through the help of Jesus.

i no longer obey ANY temptations that satan throws at me, i could not do this without the Strength or Power of Jesus Christ continually with me.



Answer me this question, which i highly doubt you will but will give some other answer which does not answer the question. What sin do you think would be impossible to quit? Can you name one?

You ask "if the sinner is able to stop sinning" Scriptures indicates that it is very possible.
Jesus told a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more" This thing He would not have instructed them to do, if it were impossible to do.
Is it not written "Awake to righteousness and sin not" Again would not be instructed if it were not possible to do.
Is it not written "Shall we continue in sin? God forbid" Again would not be written if it were impossible to do.
Is it not written that nothing is impossible to them that believe? Yes that is written.
Is it not written to get rid of that sin that so easily besets you? Why would that be written if sinning was impossible to cease from?
Is it not written in Scriptures that those who can't cease from sinning are called "Cursed Children"? Yes it is.
Is it not written that every single temptation that comes upon a person, that Jesus Christ makes sure of two things, that that temptation is not so Strong that you can't handle it, and also with that temptation Jesus allows a path out of it? Are you saying when you are tempted to commit a sin, that you can't help but commit it? And that Jesus did NOT give you a path out of it? Is that what you believe?
Every single time you are tempted to commit sin, and you knowingly and willingly commit that sin, you have denied the path out of the sin that Christ has given to you, so that you could escape it. But you see, this generation does not want to stop sinning, they want to continue to live in sin, then make excuses for them, and on top of that, still claim that Jesus is their Master, all the while they willingly obey satan when he tells them to commit sin. Woe to this generation who does not realize or believe that the wages of sin is DEATH. You will reap what you sow, if you sow to obedience to Jesus, you will reap live everlasting, if you sow to obedience to satan, you choose who your master is, regardless who you claim with your lips your master is. Out of the heart reveals whose Master you belong to, if you do willingly do evil things (sinning) then that reveals who your master truly is. An evil heart produces evil sins. A good heart only produces Good things. A Good Tree does not produce any bad fruits. This generation claims that they are Good Tree because they believe in Jesus, But the fruits of that True PROVES where their heart is. If that Tree produces bad fruits (sinning) it is a bad tree, and it does not matter how loud that tree yells they are a good tree. Any tree that produces bad fruits, will be dug up and burned. Woe to this generation indeed. For i come, as one teaching things that God has told me to teach, and this generation refuses to believe it, and why does this generation reject it, because they love to sin, and anyone who teaches against sinning is a false teacher to them. Woe to this generation who refuses to believe a person who has been taught by God, but because the TRUTH is not in them, they can't hear the True Masters Voice.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[dcontroversal]

It is equally amazing ho one can think they have anything to do with gaining or keeping salvation especially since the bible makes it all too clear that they do not.....

It is amazing how people think that these works have nothing to do with our salvation.

That means they are saying that we can lack these works,not do the works,and still be saved,but if they say we must do these works then they are required for salvation.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

If they say that if they have the Spirit they will do the works,then how did these people lack works,and Jesus was not pleased with their works,and told them to repent,or He would go against them.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is greater than love.No charity,no love.

That is why James said have works of love towards God,as in the case of Abraham,and towards people,as in the case of Rahab,or there is no faith,and then no salvation.

Which Jesus said if a person lacks works they have fallen,and need to repent,and do the works,which is what James points out,do the works or your faith is dead.

For a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.

Why?Because Charity is greater than faith.

Praying-the prayers of a righteous man avails much,and they think they can lack in that,or not do it,and be right with God.

Loving others-love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,and follow peace with all men,and holiness,without which no man shall see the Lord,and they think they can lack at that,and not do it,and be right with God.

Feeding,and clothing the poor-Paul said without charity,we are nothing,and err from the faith,and James said without charity,our faith is dead,and John said without charity,the love of God does not dwell in us,and they they can lack at that,and not do it,and be right with God.

Visiting the fatherless,and widows-which God describes doing this as pure religion,and not defiled,and they think they can lack at that,and not do it,and be right with God,which can also mean the elderly,and people in prison,or anybody in a similar situation.

There is more to Christianity than what some believe,but some people made it relaxed,no pressure,no worries,no works,sin does not affect their relationship with God,were chosen in the beginning so they cannot fall,because they like to believe that so they can hold unto the world,and the flesh,and believe they are still right with God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Believing AND Loving One Another, is what is required for one to be Saved, unless of coarse you are unable to Love one another, such as death bed confessions.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

No actually having faith in Jesus and acknowledging said faith is what is required for salvation....which is a one event with eternal results.....

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is equally amazing ho one can think they have anything to do with gaining or keeping salvation especially since the bible makes it all too clear that they do not.....

I believe the point he is making -- which is quite valid -- is that if there are no good works in a person's life, then it is evidence that they are not truly saved. Making a profession without any change in one's life, or without any action, is merely an empty profession. This is the point that James has raised. Actions speak louder than words.

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? (James 2:15,16).

 

[BillG]

Believing AND Loving One Another, is what is required for one to be Saved, unless of coarse you are unable to Love one another, such as death bed confessions.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Can I just ask when you are able to love one another do you mean fellow believers?
The reason I ask this is because of the following.

I had an alcoholic mother, beat me, rejected me and threw me out when I was 14.
Was fostered by a Christian couple.
Then spent the 5 years with them, during which my foster dad sexually abused me.

So for 19 years of my life nothing but abuse and hatred towards me.

So as you can imagine I was unable to love them, even as a believer.
In fact I would say I hated them.

When we talk about works to me the big one is forgiveness and forgiving. Now that is so so hard.
Forgive as I have forgiven you.

To cut long story short. God led me through the process of forgiveness over many years.
My mother and I have a loving relationship and I actually prayed over and with my sexual abuser on his death bed.

To me a work is not just loving but it's also about forgiving. That's true love.

So I am not wishing to trap you or set you up.

What do you think would have happened to me if I died not loving my mum and sexual abuser?

 

[dcontroversal]

I believe the point he is making -- which is quite valid -- is that if there are no good works in a person's life, then it is evidence that they are not truly saved. Making a profession without any change in one's life, or without any action, is merely an empty profession. This is the point that James has raised. Actions speak louder than words.

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? (James 2:15,16).

OK....I asked this yesterday and not one worker for would answer....how about you....

Works of gold silver and precious stones indicate a saved, faithful servant of God so...how do you describe the following...

Works of gold, silver and precious stones---->saved, faithful servant of GOD

Works of wood, hay and stubble --->_____________________________ yet SAVED so as by fire.

This verse alone blows this farce out of the water that one MUST have to BE SAVED....Salvation is a one off event with eternal results and based upon faith into the work of Christ

WHAT about those who BELIEVE, TEACH and NOT DO the works or word and yet are called the LEAST in the KINGDOM....YET STILL IN THE KINGDOM

So we have a saved child of God who has works of wood, hay and stubble that get burnt to a crisp, yet remain saved

and those who teach and do not do yet STILL IN THE KINGDOM

Explain this......