Not By Works

[loveme1]

Yeah....no thanks and I will stand secure in the eternal salvation afforded dia faith, grace and fully understand that any wok produced is produced by Jesus in and through me as a living sacrifice.....and Your right in saying that I can easily say you misuse verses as well to push a dogma that has no power......and the point I made was valid....YOU still LOOK for that which is not given by your effort....it is given BY FAITH and it is the righteousness of CHRIST IMPUTED.....here is a definition...maybe you can grasp it's value...

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

logizomai: to reckon, to consider​

Original Word: λογίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: logizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (log-id'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I reckon, count, decide
Definition: I reckon, count, charge with; reason, decide, conclude; think, suppose.

QUESTION

What does WITHOUT WORKS mean?

No thanks to what exactly? Believing?

Without works is in reference to the Old Covenant. You should note the circumcision comes up a lot..

The Faith of Abraham came to us all through the Old as in the Messiah coming into the world but now the Just shall live by Faith in the New Covenant.

To love and obey is to hear and do.. if this is not for you then you have your own belief to live by.

Those under the law and not Grace are not at liberty in Christ.. but there is now the Royal law by which we are judged.

What dogma am am I pushing?

Believe and be set free by Grace through Faith to Love and obey GOD?

Guilty as charged.

 

[PHart]

Yep...THE church is false.......individual churches, autonomous bodies with their own stance, works and validity before God...equal in power and scope with the right to come before God as an individual body....and you assume much erroneously I might add....I personally know and socialize with, speak with and have even visited with at least 50 pastors/preachers from at least 20 different states and no less than 10 countries....so.....get your facts straight......

It doesn't matter if you've met a thousand pastors. This error is widespread. The church has been destroyed by what James warns us in regard to dead faith. The church totally ignores James' teaching because they have not been taught how to reconcile it correctly with Paul's teaching about justification. You can not see this because you apparently are a part of it. Just like how a JW can't see the error of what he is a part of. Those of us outside of it can see it clearly.

 

[PHart]

What dogma am am I pushing?

Believe and be set free by Grace through Faith to Love and obey GOD?

Guilty as charged.

Me too.

I honestly believe the day is coming when those of us who hold this doctrine will be martyred. I'm not a prophet. I don't know when, but I just sense that the present hostility towards what we believe will spill out into open violence towards us one day. Hopefully, not in my lifetime. I'm beginning to see how all this is the spirit of anti-christ at work preparing the world for the Man of Perdition to appear.

 

[loveme1]

Me too.

I honestly believe the day is coming when those of us who hold this doctrine will be martyred. I'm not a prophet. I don't know when, but I just sense that the present hostility towards what we believe will spill out into open violence towards us one day. Hopefully, not in my lifetime. I'm beginning to see how all this is the spirit of anti-christ at work preparing the world for the Man of Perdition to appear.

I sense it will be sooner than we think.. but hold fast my dear.

 

[TruthTalk]

God's Grace (unmerited favor). Grace is God giving to born again believer's what they do not deserve, salvation and eternal life.

After you are saved God and the Hoy Spirit continues to bring the born again believer to maturity apart from works/salvation. You do not work to hold on to your salvation; that is the work of God and the Holy Spirit. Our part to maturity in Christ is our sanctification, apart from keeping us saved. (your wonderful works do not keep you saved).

"for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose." Philippians2:13

If you add works to keep you saved, (God's Grace unmerited favor), it is like adding a spoon full of dirt to a pure glass of drinking water; your works salvation has muddied up God's pure Grace, unmerited favor. Again your works are for your sanctification, "a pursuit to bring you to maturity, having nothing to do with keeping you saved."

True Gospel

 

[TruthTalk]

That's what I've been saying, lol! You have to "keep believing" in order to stay saved!

Dear Phart, this is not what Jesus taught nor does the bible teach. What if someone were to die tonight and they had a doubting moment of unbelief because of some traumatic event in their life, like Peter denying Christ three times. They would not lose their salvation. This is just silliness. If it were possible for you/me to lose our salvation we probably would. God and the Holy Spirit keep you saved. If someone is having issues with their salvation and they run away from God's will for their life, He will bring them back, go ask Jonah. Trust in God for your salvation not your wonderful works, today and forever.

If keep believing is your gospel, it is false. God will will keep us until that day not my self effort.

"Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy," Jude1:24

God who began the good work in you and me and He will finish the good work, it is not about;
"keep believing."

True Gospel

 

[DiscipleDave]

Faith plus works for salvation = false gospel of a different kind, no power to save, double cursed and all who believe it and push it are deceived and fools <---Galatians 1 and 3

Scriptures teach Faith and Works go hand in hand.
Those who keep His Commandments are SAVED.

Scriptures plainly teach His Commandments are
1) Believe on Him
and
2) LOVE ONE ANOTHER

Those who merely believe on Him (Faith) But do not have the Works that back up that Faith (Love One Another) believe a false doctrine. Believe Scriptures not men who teach Faith ONLY is enough.

Can you, i doubt you will, answer me this question. Tell me how you can Love One Another that is not a WORK? Can you give an example how someone can Love Another, and that example NOT BE A WORK.

Those who teach Faith ONLY is enough are decieved and believe a lie from satan. They believe that believing in Jesus they do not need to have any Works whatsoever, they need to NOT love one another at all, and they are still fine. They are deceived and know not the TRUTH.

Scriptures over and over again teach Faith (believe in Christ) and Works (obey, do good, cease from sinning, confess, pray, be nice, be kind, and above all LOVE ONE ANOTHER, all of these things are WORKS)

Woe to them who teach others that Faith ONLY IS ENOUGH, contrary to the very scriptures they say they believe. NO, these pick and choose verses that teach Believing in Jesus Saves you, all the while they ignore all the many Scriptures which teach Faith AND Works Saves you. Woe to them indeed, because if they believe that Faith ONLY is enough, why would they desire to have works, why would they desire to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, which Jesus Christ Commanded us to Do.

Jesus our Lord and Savior COMMANDED us to Love One Another, He COMMANDED us to have Works. Woe to those who believe Faith ONLY is enough, and woe to them who believe WORKS ONLY is enough, BOTH will suffer His wrath when it comes upon the whole Earth. But those who Have and Faith AND Works, that is to say they believe in Jesus AND Love One Another will be accepted by Him, and they are a very few who find this narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting.

Woe to those who teach Faith only is enough, that believing ONLY is enough, they believe a lie taught by satan and not what the whole of Scriptures teach. These pick and choose which verses they will believe and which ones they will ignore, make void, or interpret away. ONLY those who believe ALL verses will be accepted by Him when He Returns.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Magenta]

Few see that to confess Jesus with your mouth and then live in willful, unrepentant, careless sin is actually a contemptuous unbelief.

Exactly: unbelief.

... It seems you are finally seeing it.

An unbelief that will cause them to eventually lose the sacrifice of Christ that they think they possess no matter what they do.

They cannot lose that which they never had in the first place.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Also, the word required I object too. We are drawn by Holy Spirit. Do you need the scripture? In being drawn to the Lord, we surrender to His will, and ask forgiveness. Not because of law which you really are touting using the word required, but of the work of Holy Spirit. We respond.

If a person goes to prayer and asks for forgiveness, How is that not a WORK?
If a person OBEYS the promptings of the Holy Spirit, How is that not a WORK?
If a person LOVES others, how is that done without any WORKS?
If a person is drawn to the Lord, how is FOLLOWING not a WORK?

Believing in Jesus is NOT a Work, that is Faith.
But ANYTHING you DO, is a WORK.

Praying = Work
Loving others = Work
Confessing = Work
Repenting = Work
Reading the Word = Work
Studying the Word = Work
Going to Church = Work
Helping those in need = Work
Feeding the Hungry = Work
Clothing the naked = Work
Visiting the elderly and those in prison = Work
Witnessing about Jesus = Work
Testifying about Jesus = Work
Praising God = Work

All these things are things that YOU DO, and they are Works. Those who think and believe that believing in Jesus is enough, and that none of these Works are required believe a lie that satan teaches.
Scriptures plainly teach those who TRULY believe in Jesus will DO what He says, and He says, and even COMMANDS us to Love One Another, which is nothing but Works. Woe to this generation who teaches Faith Only is enough, they believe that believing in Jesus is all that is required and therefore need not any works at all, how will they escape His wrath when Scriptures plainly teaches over and over and over again that Faith AND Works go hand in hand not one without the Other.
Those who teach Believing only is enough, lie.
Those who teach Works only is enough, lie.
Those who teach Believing in Jesus and OBEYING the Scriptures, which is nothing but Works, will be accepted with Him.

Faith - Works = Dead : This is Scriptural
Works - Faith = Dead : This is Scriptural
Faith + Works = Life Everlasting : This is Scriptural

The Parable of Jesus separating the Goats from the Sheep is this.
The Goats believed in Jesus calling Him "Lord" but they had no works at all, they did not Love One Another.
The Sheep believed in Jesus calling Him "Lord" and their belief was backed up by their works, they did Love One Another.
It is plainly written that no man can call Jesus "Lord" but by the Holy Ghost. Both Goats and Sheep in the parable called Jesus "Lord" all of you would do well to take heed to this parable. Those who believe that believing in Jesus is all that you need to do, are no different than the goats in the Parable. Those who believe and have works are no different than the the sheep in the Parable.
Which one would you say you are? Goats which believed in Jesus but had no works at all, or the Sheep which believed in Jesus and also had works?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

It always comes down to conflating the descriptive Biblical language of a believer, into something prescriptive, i.e. something the person must start doing to gain eternal salvation.

A person who believes they MUST do good works to gain Eternal Salvation is deceived and knows not the TRUTH
A person who believes that believing only is enough to gain Eternal Salvation is likewise just as deceived and knows not the TRUTH.

And being made perfect, Jesus became the author of Eternal Salvation unto those who obey him;(Heb 5:9) and Jesus COMMANDS us to Love One Another, Which is to say Jesus Christ our Savior and Lord COMMANDS us to have WORKS.

True Christians don't have many good works to GET Saved, or to remain Saved. True Christians have many good works because they ARE SAVED, LOVE lives inside of them, and Good Works will come out of that person like a flowing river that can't be stopped, because LOVE lives in them, and they can't help but to LOVE OTHERS, and have many good works that backs up the fact that LOVE lives in them.

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are created in Jesus Christ to have many Good Works. Woe to them who teach you don't need them.

1Ti_2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

Women are told in Scriptures to have good works also. Woe to those who teach women they Do NOT need to have good works.

1Ti_5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Oh my, this generation would teach that this women with all these good works is trying to gain Salvation through by works. This generation knows nothing at all, this generation is a workless generation, and anyone who has many good works will accuse that person of trying to gain Salvation by their works. Believe them not, those who teach Faith ONLY is enough, those who teach believing ONLY is enough, and works are not required, these same people who teach that lie, are they that have very little, to no works at all. And they like it that way. And they condemn others who teach Faith (believing) and Works (Loving One Another) go hand in hand.

1Ti_6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

What!!!!! Scriptures teaches what i teach also, to have Good WORKS?

2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Unto all Good Works, This generation must surely believe that is incorrect and it should have read like thus:
That the man of God be perfect, throughly furnished unto all Faith.

Tit_2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Yet more inspired by God, Holy Scriptures that instructs us Christians to have Good Works. But the Faith Only people believe that you are Saved by believing in Jesus and you do not need to obey the Holy Scriptures which tells us to maintain Good Works.

Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Tit_3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Heb_10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

How will the Faith ONLY false teachers reply to all these Scriptures which plainly teach that True Christians should maintain Good works, we shall see very soon.

Rev_2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Woe to them who have no works at all, they will receive NOTHING from Jesus Christ, Nothing at all.

Rev_14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Tell me, if a person dies in the Lord and they have NO WORKS, what shall follow them? NOTHING!!

Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Or Lack thereof)


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[TruthTalk]

If a person goes to prayer and asks for forgiveness, How is that not a WORK?
If a person OBEYS the promptings of the Holy Spirit, How is that not a WORK?
If a person LOVES others, how is that done without any WORKS?
If a person is drawn to the Lord, how is FOLLOWING not a WORK?

Believing in Jesus is NOT a Work, that is Faith.
But ANYTHING you DO, is a WORK.

Praying = Work
Loving others = Work
Confessing = Work
Repenting = Work
Reading the Word = Work
Studying the Word = Work
Going to Church = Work
Helping those in need = Work
Feeding the Hungry = Work
Clothing the naked = Work
Visiting the elderly and those in prison = Work
Witnessing about Jesus = Work
Testifying about Jesus = Work
Praising God = Work

All these things are things that YOU DO, and they are Works. Those who think and believe that believing in Jesus is enough, and that none of these Works are required believe a lie that satan teaches.
Scriptures plainly teach those who TRULY believe in Jesus will DO what He says, and He says, and even COMMANDS us to Love One Another, which is nothing but Works. Woe to this generation who teaches Faith Only is enough, they believe that believing in Jesus is all that is required and therefore need not any works at all, how will they escape His wrath when Scriptures plainly teaches over and over and over again that Faith AND Works go hand in hand not one without the Other.
Those who teach Believing only is enough, lie.
Those who teach Works only is enough, lie.
Those who teach Believing in Jesus and OBEYING the Scriptures, which is nothing but Works, will be accepted with Him.

Faith - Works = Dead : This is Scriptural
Works - Faith = Dead : This is Scriptural
Faith + Works = Life Everlasting : This is Scriptural

The Parable of Jesus separating the Goats from the Sheep is this.
The Goats believed in Jesus calling Him "Lord" but they had no works at all, they did not Love One Another.
The Sheep believed in Jesus calling Him "Lord" and their belief was backed up by their works, they did Love One Another.
It is plainly written that no man can call Jesus "Lord" but by the Holy Ghost. Both Goats and Sheep in the parable called Jesus "Lord" all of you would do well to take heed to this parable. Those who believe that believing in Jesus is all that you need to do, are no different than the goats in the Parable. Those who believe and have works are no different than the the sheep in the Parable.
Which one would you say you are? Goats which believed in Jesus but had no works at all, or the Sheep which believed in Jesus and also had works?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DscipleDave, nice to meet you, these are wonderful works that you have listed here; but we are not saved by them nor are we kept saved by our wonderful works to God. The works that we bring to God to maintain our salvation is self centered and foolish. You diminish the work of the Cross if you add your self righteousness = Cainology. Our works are about sanctification and the pursuit of Holiness; leave the saving and justifying up to Jesus, not our wonderful works. Where is the humility. If you do not see humility in your Church leadership, run don't walk to the nearest exit.

God bless

 

[joefizz]

A person who believes they MUST do good works to gain Eternal Salvation is deceived and knows not the TRUTH
A person who believes that believing only is enough to gain Eternal Salvation is likewise just as deceived and knows not the TRUTH.

And being made perfect, Jesus became the author of Eternal Salvation unto those who obey him;(Heb 5:9) and Jesus COMMANDS us to Love One Another, Which is to say Jesus Christ our Savior and Lord COMMANDS us to have WORKS.

True Christians don't have many good works to GET Saved, or to remain Saved. True Christians have many good works because they ARE SAVED, LOVE lives inside of them, and Good Works will come out of that person like a flowing river that can't be stopped, because LOVE lives in them, and they can't help but to LOVE OTHERS, and have many good works that backs up the fact that LOVE lives in them.

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are created in Jesus Christ to have many Good Works. Woe to them who teach you don't need them.

1Ti_2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

Women are told in Scriptures to have good works also. Woe to those who teach women they Do NOT need to have good works.

1Ti_5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Oh my, this generation would teach that this women with all these good works is trying to gain Salvation through by works. This generation knows nothing at all, this generation is a workless generation, and anyone who has many good works will accuse that person of trying to gain Salvation by their works. Believe them not, those who teach Faith ONLY is enough, those who teach believing ONLY is enough, and works are not required, these same people who teach that lie, are they that have very little, to no works at all. And they like it that way. And they condemn others who teach Faith (believing) and Works (Loving One Another) go hand in hand.

1Ti_6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

What!!!!! Scriptures teaches what i teach also, to have Good WORKS?

2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Unto all Good Works, This generation must surely believe that is incorrect and it should have read like thus:
That the man of God be perfect, throughly furnished unto all Faith.

Tit_2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Yet more inspired by God, Holy Scriptures that instructs us Christians to have Good Works. But the Faith Only people believe that you are Saved by believing in Jesus and you do not need to obey the Holy Scriptures which tells us to maintain Good Works.

Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Tit_3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Heb_10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

How will the Faith ONLY false teachers reply to all these Scriptures which plainly teach that True Christians should maintain Good works, we shall see very soon.

Rev_2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Woe to them who have no works at all, they will receive NOTHING from Jesus Christ, Nothing at all.

Rev_14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Tell me, if a person dies in the Lord and they have NO WORKS, what shall follow them? NOTHING!!

Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Or Lack thereof)


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

A very astute and indepth truthful answer,I looked this post over and all of it is true regarding it's overall answer in regards if works are still important,we are not saved by works,but are saved through believing in "AND" accepting Jesus as saviour not simple belief alone,faith alone in that Jesus can and will save you through accepting him as saviour is true,but one must consider too that in the final end that one must do good works in Christ otherwise they have taken the gift of salvation and squandered it.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Those who believe that Believing is enough (Faith ONLY) answer me this question.
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Hello DiscipleDave,

Long post, sir! I ask, did you start doing all the things you've mentioned when you were converted?

NO. At the first i tried to give up all sinning all at once, it was a disaster. Then i took one sin at a time and got rid of it out of my life until it was gone. That was more successful, thank Jesus. my invisible friend, when i was a kid, was Jesus, i even made a place for him to sit on the school bus. Then the Holy Ghost started convicting me that i was not Loving enough, that Jesus Loved everyone even His enemies and that i should do the same, so then i started to pray for help to love my enemies, i prayed for Jesus to help me forgive those who wronged me, little by little, little by little, i worked on being more pleasing to the God i serve. Then i got to the point where the Holy Ghost was prompting me to give up my life for HIM. So now, through the help of the Power and Strength of Jesus Christ who lives in me, i now do all things to please Him, i do not live my life for me, but live it for Him. i have learned to hate, even abhor sinning. Because God told me that all sinning is selfishness, all willful sinning is done because of selfish thoughts, to please self and not God. i do not obey satan in anything, i do not obey my flesh, nor any sinful desire, i ONLY obey Jesus Christ, i no longer please myself, but do ALL things to please Jesus my Lord, my Savior, my Master.

It is a race that one must finish. Even though i walk in the light, and do all things to please Him, and if i die right this second then i am Saved, but since i live, i must endure to end to Be Saved. What people fail to understand is you claim with your mouth today that you are Saved, but there is ONLY ONE DAY that determines if a person is Saved or not Saved, and that day is when the Books are opened and we are Judged. If our name is found written in the Book of Life and it has not been blotted out, it is ONLY on that DAY, that a person is Truly SAVED, He that endures to the end shall be Saved.
Being Saved is a narrow and difficult path that only a few will find, this generation has believed a lie that teaches once you are on that narrow and difficult path that it is impossible to ever fall away from it, they are wrong and are deceived and believe a lie that teaches once they are on that path they can't ever fall from it through their own choices.

Secondly, if so, what will happen to you if you stop?

Is it not written those who endure to the END shall be Saved. If then i freely choose to STOP, Then i have freely chose to deny Christ.

Jesus Christ in a person will cause that person to LOVE OTHERS, they will not be able to do otherwise, unless they deny Christ. Jesus Christ is LOVE. IF then Jesus Christ is Truly in you, then you will LOVE OTHERS, you won't be able to NOT help those in need, you will give to the poor, help those in need, you will give to charities, you will cloth the naked, visit the sick, you will do all these things, not to GET saved, not to remain Saved, you WILL DO all these thing because you ARE SAVED, He lives in you. Love lives in you, if you resist, you deny Christ. And we know what happens to those who deny Christ.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[VCO]

"MacCarther" ?.........The man is a 5 point Calvinist,and Platonist, He believes man is totally reprobate and depraved, having no ability to seek God and come clean with HIM and that others have been condemned to hell from Plato's eons past because He decreed it........The man is a merchandiser and deceiver......be blessed

I can tell you never listened to Him, and only heard what others said about him. He disagrees two of the 5 points of Calvanism, and therefore the 5 Point Calvinists AND the Armenians BOTH will not listen to him. I have seen the BAD FRUIT arguments between Calvinists and Armenians explode into pure bitterness many times showing themselves to be NOT filled with the Spirit. And just so you know, False Accusations are BAD FRUIT too.

AMEN PRAISE THE LORD, for TEACHERS Dr. John MacArthur who stick to what BIBLE actually says, instead of sinking into either the 5 Point Calvinist's or Armenian's camp.


As proof that you TRULY DO NOT know what Dr. John MacArthur,
here are two sermons, Part 1 and Part two on YouTube, the subject is:
Calling the Church to Repent

[video=youtube;ZMxRhD_jsUU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMxRhD_jsUU[/video]

 

[UnderGrace]

The passages that speak about good works that you have referenced are not with eternal life/being born again in view, but

rather their role and function after one is born again

A person who believes they MUST do good works to gain Eternal Salvation is deceived and knows not the TRUTH
A person who believes that believing only is enough to gain Eternal Salvation is likewise just as deceived and knows not the TRUTH.

And being made perfect, Jesus became the author of Eternal Salvation unto those who obey him;(Heb 5:9) and Jesus COMMANDS us to Love One Another, Which is to say Jesus Christ our Savior and Lord COMMANDS us to have WORKS.

True Christians don't have many good works to GET Saved, or to remain Saved. True Christians have many good works because they ARE SAVED, LOVE lives inside of them, and Good Works will come out of that person like a flowing river that can't be stopped, because LOVE lives in them, and they can't help but to LOVE OTHERS, and have many good works that backs up the fact that LOVE lives in them.

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are created in Jesus Christ to have many Good Works. Woe to them who teach you don't need them.

1Ti_2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

Women are told in Scriptures to have good works also. Woe to those who teach women they Do NOT need to have good works.

1Ti_5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Oh my, this generation would teach that this women with all these good works is trying to gain Salvation through by works. This generation knows nothing at all, this generation is a workless generation, and anyone who has many good works will accuse that person of trying to gain Salvation by their works. Believe them not, those who teach Faith ONLY is enough, those who teach believing ONLY is enough, and works are not required, these same people who teach that lie, are they that have very little, to no works at all. And they like it that way. And they condemn others who teach Faith (believing) and Works (Loving One Another) go hand in hand.

1Ti_6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

What!!!!! Scriptures teaches what i teach also, to have Good WORKS?

2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Unto all Good Works, This generation must surely believe that is incorrect and it should have read like thus:
That the man of God be perfect, throughly furnished unto all Faith.

Tit_2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Yet more inspired by God, Holy Scriptures that instructs us Christians to have Good Works. But the Faith Only people believe that you are Saved by believing in Jesus and you do not need to obey the Holy Scriptures which tells us to maintain Good Works.

Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Tit_3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Heb_10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

How will the Faith ONLY false teachers reply to all these Scriptures which plainly teach that True Christians should maintain Good works, we shall see very soon.

Rev_2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Woe to them who have no works at all, they will receive NOTHING from Jesus Christ, Nothing at all.

Rev_14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Tell me, if a person dies in the Lord and they have NO WORKS, what shall follow them? NOTHING!!

Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Or Lack thereof)


^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[UnderGrace]

I would say the gift of salvation is never squandered because that

person is an adopted son or daughter eternally,

and that is more than they would be have been had they never been saved.

A very astute and indepth truthful answer,I looked this post over and all of it is true regarding it's overall answer in regards if works are still important,we are not saved by works,but are saved through believing in "AND" accepting Jesus as saviour not simple belief alone,faith alone in that Jesus can and will save you through accepting him as saviour is true,but one must consider too that in the final end that one must do good works in Christ otherwise they have taken the gift of salvation and squandered it.

 

[joefizz]

I would say the gift of salvation is never squandered because that

person is an adopted son or daughter eternally,

and that is more than they would be have been had they never been saved.

or the better question why wouldn't someone who is saved "not" one to do works for Jesus?

 

[DiscipleDave]

If a thief accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord is he REQUIRED to give up thieving?
IF a Liar accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord is he REQUIRED to give up Lying?
If an Adulterer accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord is he REQUIRED to give up cheating on spouse?
if a drunkard accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord is he REQUIRED to give up becoming drunk?
If a fornicator accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord is he REQUIRED to give up fornicating?
If a wife beater accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord is he REQUIRED to give up beating his wife?
If a drug user accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord is he REQUIRED to give up abusing drugs?
If a child molester accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord is he REQUIRED to give up molesting children?

If the sinner is able to stop or give up all of his/her sinful behaviors then why does he/she need a Saviour?

i have stopped smoking because i gave it up for Jesus Christ. Do you think that i still don't need Him when i still desire to smoke?
i have given up PORN. Do you think that i do not need Him when satan tempts me to look at porn?
i have given up Lusting. Do you think that i do not need Him when satan tempts me to lust?
i have given up sex. Do you think that i do not need Jesus when i am tempted to have sex?

The Strength and Power of Jesus Christ can you a person stop from any Sin. But you will always need His Strength and Power against that sin, because satan does not stop tempting you to do that sin, just because you quit through the help of Jesus.

i no longer obey ANY temptations that satan throws at me, i could not do this without the Strength or Power of Jesus Christ continually with me.

If the sinner is able to stop or give up all of his/her sinful behaviors then why does he/she need a Saviour?

Answer me this question, which i highly doubt you will but will give some other answer which does not answer the question. What sin do you think would be impossible to quit? Can you name one?

You ask "if the sinner is able to stop sinning" Scriptures indicates that it is very possible.
Jesus told a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more" This thing He would not have instructed them to do, if it were impossible to do.
Is it not written "Awake to righteousness and sin not" Again would not be instructed if it were not possible to do.
Is it not written "Shall we continue in sin? God forbid" Again would not be written if it were impossible to do.
Is it not written that nothing is impossible to them that believe? Yes that is written.
Is it not written to get rid of that sin that so easily besets you? Why would that be written if sinning was impossible to cease from?
Is it not written in Scriptures that those who can't cease from sinning are called "Cursed Children"? Yes it is.
Is it not written that every single temptation that comes upon a person, that Jesus Christ makes sure of two things, that that temptation is not so Strong that you can't handle it, and also with that temptation Jesus allows a path out of it? Are you saying when you are tempted to commit a sin, that you can't help but commit it? And that Jesus did NOT give you a path out of it? Is that what you believe?
Every single time you are tempted to commit sin, and you knowingly and willingly commit that sin, you have denied the path out of the sin that Christ has given to you, so that you could escape it. But you see, this generation does not want to stop sinning, they want to continue to live in sin, then make excuses for them, and on top of that, still claim that Jesus is their Master, all the while they willingly obey satan when he tells them to commit sin. Woe to this generation who does not realize or believe that the wages of sin is DEATH. You will reap what you sow, if you sow to obedience to Jesus, you will reap live everlasting, if you sow to obedience to satan, you choose who your master is, regardless who you claim with your lips your master is. Out of the heart reveals whose Master you belong to, if you do willingly do evil things (sinning) then that reveals who your master truly is. An evil heart produces evil sins. A good heart only produces Good things. A Good Tree does not produce any bad fruits. This generation claims that they are Good Tree because they believe in Jesus, But the fruits of that True PROVES where their heart is. If that Tree produces bad fruits (sinning) it is a bad tree, and it does not matter how loud that tree yells they are a good tree. Any tree that produces bad fruits, will be dug up and burned. Woe to this generation indeed. For i come, as one teaching things that God has told me to teach, and this generation refuses to believe it, and why does this generation reject it, because they love to sin, and anyone who teaches against sinning is a false teacher to them. Woe to this generation who refuses to believe a person who has been taught by God, but because the TRUTH is not in them, they can't hear the True Masters Voice.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[MattforJesus]

Praying = Work
Loving others = Work
Confessing = Work
Repenting = Work
Reading the Word = Work
Studying the Word = Work
Going to Church = Work
Helping those in need = Work
Feeding the Hungry = Work
Clothing the naked = Work
Visiting the elderly and those in prison = Work
Witnessing about Jesus = Work
Testifying about Jesus = Work
Praising God = Work

DiscipleDave

It is amazing how people think that these works have nothing to do with our salvation.

That means they are saying that we can lack these works,not do the works,and still be saved,but if they say we must do these works then they are required for salvation.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

If they say that if they have the Spirit they will do the works,then how did these people lack works,and Jesus was not pleased with their works,and told them to repent,or He would go against them.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is greater than love.No charity,no love.

That is why James said have works of love towards God,as in the case of Abraham,and towards people,as in the case of Rahab,or there is no faith,and then no salvation.

Which Jesus said if a person lacks works they have fallen,and need to repent,and do the works,which is what James points out,do the works or your faith is dead.

For a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.

Why?Because Charity is greater than faith.

Praying-the prayers of a righteous man avails much,and they think they can lack in that,or not do it,and be right with God.

Loving others-love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,and follow peace with all men,and holiness,without which no man shall see the Lord,and they think they can lack at that,and not do it,and be right with God.

Feeding,and clothing the poor-Paul said without charity,we are nothing,and err from the faith,and James said without charity,our faith is dead,and John said without charity,the love of God does not dwell in us,and they they can lack at that,and not do it,and be right with God.

Visiting the fatherless,and widows-which God describes doing this as pure religion,and not defiled,and they think they can lack at that,and not do it,and be right with God,which can also mean the elderly,and people in prison,or anybody in a similar situation.

There is more to Christianity than what some believe,but some people made it relaxed,no pressure,no worries,no works,sin does not affect their relationship with God,were chosen in the beginning so they cannot fall,because they like to believe that so they can hold unto the world,and the flesh,and believe they are still right with God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Abraham had faith and was justified well before circumcision....study more.......

No thanks to what exactly? Believing?

Without works is in reference to the Old Covenant. You should note the circumcision comes up a lot..

The Faith of Abraham came to us all through the Old as in the Messiah coming into the world but now the Just shall live by Faith in the New Covenant.

To love and obey is to hear and do.. if this is not for you then you have your own belief to live by.

Those under the law and not Grace are not at liberty in Christ.. but there is now the Royal law by which we are judged.

What dogma am am I pushing?

Believe and be set free by Grace through Faith to Love and obey GOD?

Guilty as charged.