New International Version 1984 John 12:44-50 Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Ok...sooooo...Your Jesus now since you seemingly applied this unto yourself?
What is your point.....sure I reject anyone who adds works to Jesus for biblical salvation....
He that believes on the SON HAS EVERLASTING (ETERNAL) life. NO WORKS, no water, no church affiliation, NOTHING other than believing.....
Galatians chapters 1 and 3
FAITH plus WORKS = A gospel of a HETEROS (DIFFERENT KIND) which is not the ALLOS (SAME KIND) double cursed and NO POWER to save......<--PAUL calls them FOOLISH for believing this GOSPEL of a DIFFERENT KIND
So, who do you believe....your religious teachers or the word?
What is your point.....sure I reject anyone who adds works to Jesus for biblical salvation....
He that believes on the SON HAS EVERLASTING (ETERNAL) life. NO WORKS, no water, no church affiliation, NOTHING other than believing.....
Galatians chapters 1 and 3
FAITH plus WORKS = A gospel of a HETEROS (DIFFERENT KIND) which is not the ALLOS (SAME KIND) double cursed and NO POWER to save......<--PAUL calls them FOOLISH for believing this GOSPEL of a DIFFERENT KIND
So, who do you believe....your religious teachers or the word?
Are you asking me or yourself? You cannot deny that you have just said that the words of TRUTH in the Gospel that I have posted has no bearing in this thread thus rejecting the very same Lord that you portray to have fairh in.
New International Version 1984 Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for THEY DO NOT PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH.
New International Version 1984 Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for THEY DO NOT PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH.
I rejected nothing but your lack of context and understanding.......and Have you ever met me, do you know how I live, the things I do, what I say in public......NO, NO and that would be a NO......and the bolded above proves you fail to understand English......
so what is your point? Serious......works do not save, keep saved or maintain salvation....end of story. It is a current eternal possession that cannot be lost...and I as well as everyone else have clearly indicated that fruit/works are the result of GROWTH and MATURITY that come AFTER one has been BORN again and is ALIVE IN THE VINE.....
So.....What is your point?
so what is your point? Serious......works do not save, keep saved or maintain salvation....end of story. It is a current eternal possession that cannot be lost...and I as well as everyone else have clearly indicated that fruit/works are the result of GROWTH and MATURITY that come AFTER one has been BORN again and is ALIVE IN THE VINE.....
So.....What is your point?
Do you deny making this post? What are you trying to suggest? Am I the one lying or deceiving here. Did I offend you or was it the Word speaking to you that you cannot accept.
New International Version 1984 John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
New International Version 1984 John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
New International Version 1984 John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
New International Version 1984 John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
Amen to that.......and even 1 (one) cup of cold water in the name of Jesus is fruit that will not go unnoticed and or without reward.......I stand amazed t those who say faith and works together is what "earns" salvation......not realizing that one cannot produce one micro-gram of fruit unless they are already ALIVE, in the vine and have had growth and maturity first....
EVEN nature (which speaks in every known language and can be understood) lays this principle BARE for all to see....
A seed falls to the ground, receives moisture and sun, sprouts and is NOW ALIVE, grows for a period of time, matures and THEN and ONLY THEN produces fruit........
Such is the same with a born again believer.....
Faith into JESUS results in a SPIRITUAL BIRTH of incorruptible SEED, the believer who is NOW ALIVE in Christ will begin to grow and MATURE, after a period of GROWTH will produce fruit....some a hundred fold, some fifty fold and many just a single piece...the works or fruit DID not SAVE them and or RESULT in their birth, but rather is a the result of faith and being born again of the SPIRIT....
The simplicity that is found in Christ......missed by ALL who interject themselves into the equation.....what a sad day......
LORD, LORD did we not do MANY wonderful works in your name.......<---cast because they attempted to enter through another door other than faith.....I.E. a door that added works to the equation!
EVEN nature (which speaks in every known language and can be understood) lays this principle BARE for all to see....
A seed falls to the ground, receives moisture and sun, sprouts and is NOW ALIVE, grows for a period of time, matures and THEN and ONLY THEN produces fruit........
Such is the same with a born again believer.....
Faith into JESUS results in a SPIRITUAL BIRTH of incorruptible SEED, the believer who is NOW ALIVE in Christ will begin to grow and MATURE, after a period of GROWTH will produce fruit....some a hundred fold, some fifty fold and many just a single piece...the works or fruit DID not SAVE them and or RESULT in their birth, but rather is a the result of faith and being born again of the SPIRIT....
The simplicity that is found in Christ......missed by ALL who interject themselves into the equation.....what a sad day......
LORD, LORD did we not do MANY wonderful works in your name.......<---cast because they attempted to enter through another door other than faith.....I.E. a door that added works to the equation!
Your Lord and Savior specifically said to us:
Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Those who DO what He COMMANDS, are they that OBEY Him. False doctrines teach that you can obey satan and live in sin, but as long as you have faith in Jesus, you are obedient to Him, even though you do NOT DO what He says.
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
NOPE, not this generation, this generation believes that Faith in Jesus is obedience to Him, and you don't have to actually DO what Jesus commands us to do, Faith is enough. Faith in Jesus is obedience. Faith in Jesus is righteousness. Don't need to do what He says, don't need to do what He commands, Don't have to keep His Commandments. False doctrines that tickle the ears of all those who do not want to cease from sin.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Whosoever doeth that which is unrighteous is UNRIGHTEOUS.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Has Jesus DESTROYED the sin in your life, or is it still ALIVE and well inside of your heart? Those who willingly choose to obey satan and commit sin, are of the devil. i don't say that, the Bible PLAINLY and CLEARLY teaches that, over and over again.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Those who are born of God, look to Jesus for His Strength and Power over EVERY temptation that comes at them. Those who are born of God overcome all temptations through the Strength and Power of Jesus Christ which lives in them.
1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Those who do not do righteousness, are NOT of God but are indeed the children of the devil, EXACTLY as Scriptures teach.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Let a person testify that they no longer sin, and see how fast this generation wants to stone them. Those who knowingly and willingly choose to OBEY satan, do not know who their Master is. If they did, they would OBEY JESUS which is telling them NOT TO DO IT. But in TRUTH, those who knowingly and willingly choose to commit sin, knowing full well it is sinful, CHOOSE to deny Jesus, who can help them overcome that temptation. What does Scriptures say about those who deny Christ? there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth from all those billions of people who think they are SAVED, and will be left behind, because they freely choose who they willingly obey. Your MASTER is to whom you obey, if you choose to obey satan, i assure you, he is your Master. Let the stone throwing begin.
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††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Not to mention, Scriptures specifically instructs us to "Maintain Good Works" Woe to them who teach things contrary to Scriptures, Woe to them indeed. For they are not FOR Scriptures, but AGAINST them. Not FOR the TRUTH, but AGAINST the TRUTH.
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††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Scriptures teach that you should know how to answer questions. That is why i do my very best to answer every single question that is presented to me. You however don't answer anything i seem to ask. Why is that?
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††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
All that you say here, is TRUE, which i 100% believe. The problem is though, which is where we disagree, is the bad fruits.
Scriptures teach, if a tree produces ONLY good fruits, that is a Good tree. So like you say above, even if it is only one fruit, that is Good. The problem is though, the bad fruits. It is the Bad fruits that make the tree a bad tree, regardless how many good fruits the tree produces, it will be cut down because that particular tree produces bad fruits. Scriptures teaches this, even though you will accuse me of teaching that, which you think is false, correct?
A good tree ONLY produces good fruits
A bad tree produces bad fruits and good fruits, it is still a bad tree, because of the bad fruits it produces.
So all that you say above is TRUE, But becomes totally different when you take into account the bad fruits.
A person may have only one good fruit after years and years of growing, but during those years and years of growing, how many times did they FAIL to Love One Another, which is a very bad fruit. Because Jesus commanded all His followers to Love One Another, to FAIL to do what He commanded us to do, is indeed a bad fruit. So that person who has one good fruit after years, how many bad fruits did that same tree produce prior to that? Now that is the question that needs addressing.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
1Ki_15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.
and
1Ki 14:8 And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with ALL his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;
The only sin that the Bible says He committed is having the Hittite killed. Scriptures teaches that David did all things that was RIGHT in the eyes of God.
Everyone can be forgiven of their sins, that is due to the fact what Jesus did for us on the cross. HOWEVER what this generation fails to understand or open their understanding to, is that True Repentance and given to those who TRULY REPENT of a particular sin. IF they are truly sorry for a particular sin, they will no longer continue to DO THAT SIN. If a person continues to do a sin over and over and over again, without ceasing from it, how are they sorry for that sin? They are NOT sorry for that sin, because they love to commit that sin, and refuse to cease from the sin, making excuses why they continue to commit that sin, (ie. flesh is weak, Jesus is going to perfect me in His time, all my sinning is forgiven by Jesus and His Blood) Therefore never cease from those sins, but love to continue in them. These are NOT Forgiven of their sins, because they have NOT Truly repented of them. Here is a FACT. If you are Truly sorry for a particular sin that you commit, you will do whatever it takes to NOT do that sin again, that is a FACT.
i will tell you what this generation is like. It is like a man who commits a sin and afterwards asks for forgiveness of that sin, KNOWING full well they will do it again and again and again. These are they that the Bible calls reprobate minds. They repent of their sin, but are not Truly sorry for them, if they were, they would cease to ever do it again. Reprobate generation which continues to live in sins, never ceasing from them, continue to obey satan all the while calling Jesus Lord. Weeping and gnashing of teeth is their future.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Faith PLUS works for Getting Saved is false -->Galations 1 and 3 teaches that. What a person must DO after they have recieved the free gift of Salvation is a different matter altogether.
Answer me this question (or not like usual) If satan comes upon a person and tempts them to commit a sin, and Jesus is telling that person that is sinful don't do it, and that person does not listen to Jesus but listens to satan and commits the sin. Tell me, how is that NOT REJECTING Jesus?
Is it not written that with every temptation Jesus allows a path out of that temptation. Tell me. If a person is tempted to obey satan and commit sin, and DENY the path that Jesus put there for them to escape that temptation, how is that not REJECTING Jesus?
You are absolutely correct in saying that only those who reject Jesus are blotted out. It seems to me, you would study the Scriptures to learn what it actually means to reject Jesus, instead of believing what men tell you is rejecting Jesus. If Rejecting Jesus can blot you out of the Book, then it seems to me, you would study day and night till you die, to find out what Scriptures reveals about what it is to reject Jesus.
If you do not do it to the least of these, you do it not to ME, sounds like rejection to me, sounds like denying the Power and Strength of Jesus Christ to me.
Irrelevant to you maybe, but not to those who believe the TRUTH.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Answer me this question (or not like usual) If satan comes upon a person and tempts them to commit a sin, and Jesus is telling that person that is sinful don't do it, and that person does not listen to Jesus but listens to satan and commits the sin. Tell me, how is that NOT REJECTING Jesus?
Is it not written that with every temptation Jesus allows a path out of that temptation. Tell me. If a person is tempted to obey satan and commit sin, and DENY the path that Jesus put there for them to escape that temptation, how is that not REJECTING Jesus?
You are absolutely correct in saying that only those who reject Jesus are blotted out. It seems to me, you would study the Scriptures to learn what it actually means to reject Jesus, instead of believing what men tell you is rejecting Jesus. If Rejecting Jesus can blot you out of the Book, then it seems to me, you would study day and night till you die, to find out what Scriptures reveals about what it is to reject Jesus.
If you do not do it to the least of these, you do it not to ME, sounds like rejection to me, sounds like denying the Power and Strength of Jesus Christ to me.
Irrelevant to you maybe, but not to those who believe the TRUTH.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Should i believe you or what Scriptures actually teaches? Notice how you say above
So what you are saying is you think a good tree can produce some bad fruits. Scriptures teaches plainly that a good tree does not produce ANY bad fruits.
Mat_7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Luk_6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
So Scriptures teaches a Good tree does not have any, nor produces ANY bad fruits. But you teach you can still be a good tree and some of your fruits goes bad. So should i believe you which teaches that a good tree can have bad fruits, or believe Scriptures which plainly teaches a good tree does not have or produce bad fruits? Hmmm Word of God or false teaching from people?
Tell me, If it is Jesus, or the Holy Ghost that MAKES us do good works. Why does Scriptures teach us to make sure we maintain good works? Why does Scriptures teach US to do good works, if they are automatically done in us?
It is written to be DOERS of the Word and not hearer only. What? If i am NOT Doing the Word, is that the Spirits fault in me, for not causing me to do that good work? God Forbid.
i hear a man at work had his electric shut off. Tell me if i do not go and give some money to that man to help him, did He, that is in me, FAIL to cause me to help that man? On the other hand if i hear that person and his trouble, and i have compassion on him and go to him and give him some money, Did the Spirit in me MAKE me do that? Or did i do it because i have Love one for another in my heart, and knew it was a Godly thing to help someone in need?
Woe to this wicked and perverse generation, We are COMMANDED to Love One Another, but woe to them who are waiting for Jesus to do a good work in and through them, all the while NOT Loving One Another as their Lord and Savior COMMANDED them to DO. Think about that for a moment, if Loving One Another (Works) was something that Jesus does in us, then why did He command US to Love One Another, if He was going to automatically do it for us?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Mat_7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Luk_6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
So Scriptures teaches a Good tree does not have any, nor produces ANY bad fruits. But you teach you can still be a good tree and some of your fruits goes bad. So should i believe you which teaches that a good tree can have bad fruits, or believe Scriptures which plainly teaches a good tree does not have or produce bad fruits? Hmmm Word of God or false teaching from people?
Tell me, If it is Jesus, or the Holy Ghost that MAKES us do good works. Why does Scriptures teach us to make sure we maintain good works? Why does Scriptures teach US to do good works, if they are automatically done in us?
It is written to be DOERS of the Word and not hearer only. What? If i am NOT Doing the Word, is that the Spirits fault in me, for not causing me to do that good work? God Forbid.
i hear a man at work had his electric shut off. Tell me if i do not go and give some money to that man to help him, did He, that is in me, FAIL to cause me to help that man? On the other hand if i hear that person and his trouble, and i have compassion on him and go to him and give him some money, Did the Spirit in me MAKE me do that? Or did i do it because i have Love one for another in my heart, and knew it was a Godly thing to help someone in need?
Woe to this wicked and perverse generation, We are COMMANDED to Love One Another, but woe to them who are waiting for Jesus to do a good work in and through them, all the while NOT Loving One Another as their Lord and Savior COMMANDED them to DO. Think about that for a moment, if Loving One Another (Works) was something that Jesus does in us, then why did He command US to Love One Another, if He was going to automatically do it for us?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
This is a perfect example of taking things out of context to fit into one's own false doctrines.
Let us look at what the verse actually says:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
What then, NOBODY is Righteous?
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
What? There is NOBODY that understands? There is NONE that seeketh after God?
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
NOBODY does any Good, Seriously, this is what you believe?
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
These verses are not talking about Christians or the Saved, but talking about the wicked, the unsaved, the Heathens. Likewise the verse that teaches Bad trees can't produce good fruits, no, not one.
You have taken this verse, and applied it to Christians. You do error in this thing. Taking out of context to fit into your own doctrines.
NO Works can help one Get Saved. Works do not Save a person, never will, never have. But once a person is SAVED, Works are a MUST. Once a person is Saved and accepts the Free gift of Salvation, they are to then start OBEYING Jesus and the Word of God, they are then to start being DOERS of the Word of God and not hearer only, they are then, after they GET SAVED, to start DOING what Jesus Commanded them to do, they are to start Loving One Another. Woe to them that don't do what Jesus Commands, they are like those who built their houses on sand. They hear Him, but don't DO what He says.
The entire Word of Jesus is to GET US SAVED. What is Required after that is that we DO what Jesus Commands us to do. Why do you think the Word teaches to no longer do the deeds of the Old Man, now that you are a new man in Christ? Why, because Scriptures are PLAIN what we are to DO once we are SAVED.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Let us look at what the verse actually says:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
What then, NOBODY is Righteous?
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
What? There is NOBODY that understands? There is NONE that seeketh after God?
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
NOBODY does any Good, Seriously, this is what you believe?
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
These verses are not talking about Christians or the Saved, but talking about the wicked, the unsaved, the Heathens. Likewise the verse that teaches Bad trees can't produce good fruits, no, not one.
You have taken this verse, and applied it to Christians. You do error in this thing. Taking out of context to fit into your own doctrines.
NO Works can help one Get Saved. Works do not Save a person, never will, never have. But once a person is SAVED, Works are a MUST. Once a person is Saved and accepts the Free gift of Salvation, they are to then start OBEYING Jesus and the Word of God, they are then to start being DOERS of the Word of God and not hearer only, they are then, after they GET SAVED, to start DOING what Jesus Commanded them to do, they are to start Loving One Another. Woe to them that don't do what Jesus Commands, they are like those who built their houses on sand. They hear Him, but don't DO what He says.
The entire Word of Jesus is to GET US SAVED. What is Required after that is that we DO what Jesus Commands us to do. Why do you think the Word teaches to no longer do the deeds of the Old Man, now that you are a new man in Christ? Why, because Scriptures are PLAIN what we are to DO once we are SAVED.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Hi there fellow,
it seems you're in getting trouble? I have emboldened part of your post which I think is not part of the discussion? The thread is about "not by works". Does good works play in obtaining salvation? What's your point, what's your dice, what your card, lay them... that is what DCControversial is all about.
Nice meeting kabayan and God bless
it seems you're in getting trouble? I have emboldened part of your post which I think is not part of the discussion? The thread is about "not by works". Does good works play in obtaining salvation? What's your point, what's your dice, what your card, lay them... that is what DCControversial is all about.
Nice meeting kabayan and God bless