2 Thes 2:3 - the falling away/apostasy/rebellion

[beastslayer1970]

Re:what you say about same sex marriage - it could maybe be an indication of being close to, or on the cusp of, the last days, because Jesus said it would be as in the days of Lot. We don't have a whole lot to go on regarding that, other than that homosexuality was so accepted that gangs of men roamed around raping other men.

Its chilling to think that it may repeat, where areas are given over to that kind of obscenity.

As to the hybrid life forms, mymind goes to the puzzling verse in Revelation about men wanting to die and not being able to. It reads almost as if some terrifying form of the fountain of youth will be found. How would it be possible that a man won't die if he hangs himself or jumps off a building, or shoots himself in the head...?

And that last, shooting himself in the head, calls to mind the one with a grievous wound to his head that healed. My overactive imagination imagines him shooting himself in the head on purpose and everyone watching it heal in amazement and him then offering men this "eternal life," which then causes them to later seek death and not be able to die as the verse says.

In fact, that would also tie in with: who can do war with him or oppose him? If you had an army of men who couldn't die, who COULD oppose them?

There was homosexuality before Jesus even walked the earth and after the great flood. Same sex marriage and homosexuality is nothing new or to have selective outrage about or a sign of the end times.

Certain denominations allowing Gays and Lesbians to become ministers of the Gospel and performing same sex marriage is the sign of apostasy and love growing cold.

Ministering truth in love to homosexuals is not apostasy and certainly not love growing cold.

 

[MarcR]

I believe that the problem started on 12/23/1873 with the founding of the Women's Christian Temperance Union.

The foundational premise of New Testament teaching is that both our relationship with God, and our daily walk with Him are based on God's grace rather than man's efforts or accomplishments.

When believers and churches began putting more effort into putting unbelievers under law than into putting them under the influence of the Holy Spirit through Salvation; the Church suffered an immeasurable loss in credibility.

The 18th amendment, passed in 1918, was never successful in stopping or even reducing alcohol abuse. It was however effectively used by Satan to label the Church with hypocrisy.

How can we believe that we are not under law but under grace and at the same time advocate putting others under law?

By 1933 the nation realized the futility of the 18th amendment, and passed the 21st amendment to repeal it.

However the Church's credibility was irreversibly damaged.

In 1933 John Dewey, Bertrand Russel Julian Huxley, Isaac Asimov, and others sought tax exempt status for the American Humanist Association as an atheistic religion.

Since 1933 the humanists have waged an increasingly successful campaign to turn freedom of religion into freedom from religion. The Women's Liberation and Gay Rights movements jumped on their bandwagon.

Without the loss of credibility that the Church suffered as a result of the WCTU and the 18th amendment, the humanists could not have accomplished their agenda.

 

[louis]

In reference to the apostasy/rebellion as mentioned in 2 Thes 2:3, what are peoples thoughts in this? Looking at everything today, could it be a combination of elements? I have been thinking on this, and one element that comes to mind and in my opinion stands out from eveything else we are seeing in the world, and that is this whole concept of same sex marriage acceptance and celebration, and this whole concept of gender choosing nonsense. As the more I thnk on this, this is one big element that rebels against the natural order.

On top of this we see more and more preachers who have the external appearances of a nice smiling face, but inside they are decieving people on such a wide scale, promoting this.

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

Another element that also has occured to me, is what is being done in labs, and that is the creation of hybrid lifeforms, and that too when one thinks about it, goes against the natural order.

In Alabama, many people are voting for Moore despite his having had sexual encounters with underage teenage girls. Most of these people go to church on Sunday, sing and praise the Lord, and yet dismiss pedophilia.
I'm pretty sure that when the great falling away from the faith comes, it will include those who feel pedophilia is OK.

 

[JaumeJ]

I understand what you are saying, but I actually believe the great falling away is infact almost over. Those who remain in assemblies as you describe will most likely band together will all self-righteous folks, rule this age, conquer God's people and worse, as described in Daniel.

These are the self-riteous folks who have quick fingers to point and condemn any who do not agree with them. The same thing has occurred in many RC areas where priests have been proven to be pedophies with parishoners saying, "Oh I do not belie he did that, he is a good man." It is sickening....lkeep the faith inJesus christ because most assemblies are not.

In Alabama, many people are voting for Moore despite his having had sexual encounters with underage teenage girls. Most of these people go to church on Sunday, sing and praise the Lord, and yet dismiss pedophilia.
I'm pretty sure that when the great falling away from the faith comes, it will include those who feel pedophilia is OK.

 

[beastslayer1970]

I understand what you are saying, but I actually believe the great falling away is infact almost over. Those who remain in assemblies as you describe will most likely band together will all self-righteous folks, rule this age, conquer God's people and worse, as described in Daniel.

These are the self-riteous folks who have quick fingers to point and condemn any who do not agree with them. The same thing has occurred in many RC areas where priests have been proven to be pedophies with parishoners saying, "Oh I do not belie he did that, he is a good man." It is sickening....lkeep the faith inJesus christ because most assemblies are not.

My opinion differs but is not in conflict with yours. While the great falling away has started we have not really seen it yet.

When giving to the USA church and other parts of the world is no longer a tax deduction, we will see it happen. When persecution hits the USA church like other parts of the world and the USA begins taking churches underground is when the great falling away will be in full force.

The great falling away is giving up the good fight of faith, Found 1 Tim 6:12

 

[louis]

I understand what you are saying, but I actually believe the great falling away is infact almost over. Those who remain in assemblies as you describe will most likely band together will all self-righteous folks, rule this age, conquer God's people and worse, as described in Daniel.

These are the self-riteous folks who have quick fingers to point and condemn any who do not agree with them. The same thing has occurred in many RC areas where priests have been proven to be pedophies with parishoners saying, "Oh I do not belie he did that, he is a good man." It is sickening....lkeep the faith inJesus christ because most assemblies are not.

From what I see in Daniel 7 & 8, and Revelation 13, is the little horn (aka the beast with ten horn's mouth, aka the antichrist) brings about prosperity and peace, which will have the whole world in love with the beasts system.
I therefore surmise that it will be the beasts system that will cause the actual falling away of people from being more spiritually inclined to being more carnally inclined in a hedonistic lifestyle.

 

[louis]

From what I see in Daniel 7 & 8, and Revelation 13, is the little horn (aka the beast with ten horn's mouth, aka the antichrist) brings about prosperity and peace, which will have the whole world in love with the beasts system.
I therefore surmise that it will be the beasts system that will cause the actual falling away of people from being more spiritually inclined to being more carnally inclined in a hedonistic lifestyle.

Providing support that the beasts system will usher in a hedonistic society are the scriptures indicating that those days will be like the party time days of Noah.

Matthew 24:37 [FONT=&quot]But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,[/FONT]