2 Thessalonians 2:3 "the departure" IS intentionally describing the RAPTURE.

[cv5]

Since the Greek word is apostasia, how can it not have anything to do with apostasy, a falling away from the faith?

μή τις ὑμᾶς ἐξαπατήσῃ κατὰ μηδένα τρόπον· ὅτι ἐὰν μὴ ἔλθῃ ἡ ἀποστασία πρῶτον, καὶ ἀποκαλυφθῇ ὁ ἄνθρωπος τῆς ἁμαρτίας, ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας

The only event to precede the Resurrection/Rapture is the great falling away.

Read Acts 21:21 and see if your theory holds water.
================================================================================================
Acts 21:21
"They have been informed now about you that apostasy you teach from Moses those among the gentiles all the Jews telling not to circumcise them the children nor in the customs to walk"

Paul preaching the gospel of salvation in Christ Jesus is "apostasy you teach"? No. Paul was teaching "APOSTASIAN".....DEPARTURE (NOUN). Departing from obsolete, ineffective damning useless Mosaic Judaism.

 

[cv5]

Since the Greek word is apostasia, how can it not have anything to do with apostasy, a falling away from the faith?

μή τις ὑμᾶς ἐξαπατήσῃ κατὰ μηδένα τρόπον· ὅτι ἐὰν μὴ ἔλθῃ ἡ ἀποστασία πρῶτον, καὶ ἀποκαλυφθῇ ὁ ἄνθρωπος τῆς ἁμαρτίας, ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας

The only event to precede the Resurrection/Rapture is the great falling away.

Totally disagree with you there buddy. There is not one single solitary event that needs to occur before the rapture. It could happen at any moment. Which of course matches the Jewish wedding ritual perfectly.

IMO......this business that the great apostasy must needs occur before the man of sin is revealed is just plain WRONG. The only thing that needs to occur before the man of sin is revealed is the rapture. Some crazy massive apostasy event just does not match any of the other end time sequence passages.

I truly believe that 2Thessalonians 2:3 DOES concatenate with all of the other end time sequence Scriptures. Paul simply uses a term of its own liking "the departure" that carries with it essentially the same action.

Why in the world do people think that Paul shoud be forced to use harpazo here lol. Of course he doesn't he can use an analogous term if he chooses.....which I think he did!

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

Strong's # 646 Noun, Feminine - literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

Tell us again how you think that Paul in 2 Thes 2:1-2 is telling us that Christians will miss the second coming?

Some Christians will miss the Second Coming if they don’t know that Satan, the Antichrist comes before Jesus Christ. Satan comes at the 6th trump—Jesus Christ, the King of kings comes at the 7th trump. So when the Antichrist shows up claiming to be God, they will fall all over him and worship him, thinking he’s Jesus. So one minute they’re worshiping the true Christ and the next minute, they’re worshiping the Antichrist come to rapture them away. This is the apostasy of the end times, folks. They have departed from their faith in the true Christ. They have been deceived big-time. How many times have we been warned, “Do not be deceived.”

 

[TMS]

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

When Jesus comes it is all over. No secret rapture before no secret life after, The Lord will separate the sheep from the goats.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[ewq1938]

Wrong. Accurately the definition is literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

That's not from Strong's concordance.

I truly believe that in 2 Thes 2:3, the Apostle Paul is using the term "apostasis" as a descriptor for our leaving this earth and fallen body.

apostasis isn't even in bible. Paul used apostasia and it means a falling away/departure from the faith.

Paul did not use the term RAPTURE here. He used another word with THE SAME ACTION.

No, he didn't.

Different flavor, different nuance, different notion, "a leaving, from a previous standing" fits beautifully into BEING REMOVED FROM THE EARTH and shedding our earthen vessels for glorious new bodies fit for for heaven.

This is wrong and has been wrong this whole time. You make error after error, switching words and definitions. This is false teaching and it needs to be exposed every time it is seen.

 

[ewq1938]

Read Acts 21:21 and see if your theory holds water.
================================================================================================
Acts 21:21
"They have been informed now about you that apostasy you teach from Moses those among the gentiles all the Jews telling not to circumcise them the children nor in the customs to walk"

Paul preaching the gospel of salvation in Christ Jesus is "apostasy you teach"? No. Paul was teaching "APOSTASIAN".....DEPARTURE (NOUN). Departing from obsolete, ineffective damning useless Mosaic Judaism.

You claim word does not mean Apostasy in 2thess but is another word that means a rapture. word's definition change between 2 thess and Acts. It always and only means Apostasy.

 

[SomeDisciple]

According to you, Acts 21:21 says that apostasy also means a falling TOWARD the Christian faith.

Acts 21:21
"They have been informed now about you that apostasy you teach from Moses those among the gentiles all the Jews telling not to circumcise them the children nor in the customs to walk"

Paul preaching the gospel of salvation in Christ Jesus is "apostasy you teach"? No. Paul was teaching "APOSTASIAN".....DEPARTURE (NOUN). Departing from obsolete, ineffective damning useless Mosaic Judaism.

How do you continue to cherry pick Acts 21? Acts 21:24 shows that your assertions about acts 21:21 are false.

Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

 

[ewq1938]

How do you continue to cherry pick Acts 21? Acts 21:24 shows that your assertions about acts 21:21 are false.

Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

The reports were true though. Paul did teach to forsake Moses and accept and new covenant. It was viewed as Apostasy by the Jews. The important thing here is the word is used as Apostasy in both of two times it appears in the bible. In neither usage does word mean rapture or a physical departure as is being claimed.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Some crazy massive apostasy event just does not match any of the other end time sequence passages.

Since we are presently in a period of apostasy, you can open your eyes and accept the truth. And 1 Thess 4 seems to indicate that this will precede the Rapture -- "our gathering together unto Him". Also the Olivet Discourse would confirm this.

 

[walknlight]

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, (2Th 2:1 AV)

Wording here implies a difference between the coming and our gathering...

No?

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

You tell me if Christianity makes the Mosaic Covenant obsolete. That is the theme of the ENTIRE book of Hebrews.
Did you forget Galatians 3?

And of course I am NOT talking about God's eternal moral laws.

And for the most part....it WAS apostate Judaism in Jesus' day. Not the real thing. For if the Jews WERE worshipping God from the heart....they would have received their Messiah....rather than murdering Him.

Undoubtedly, Acts 21:21 is refering to a departing of the faith. From the false to the true.

The only issue that troubles me, departure implies that the one leaving does so of his own accord and initiative, and this is not the case with the ""harpazo / SNATCH / caught up / rapture [G726]" (thank you TDW!!) catching away of the Church

The Rapture is not a choice.
So when it happens, those who are His, are taken by force..
Says alot about mankind, even believers......

God Bless!

 

[cv5]

How do you continue to cherry pick Acts 21? Acts 21:24 shows that your assertions about acts 21:21 are false.

Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

Wrong. Strongs # 646.....Is only used twice. 2Thes2:3 and Acts 21:21.

 

[cv5]

Hi!

The only issue that troubles me, departure implies that the one leaving does so of his own accord and initiative, and this is not the case with the ""harpazo / SNATCH / caught up / rapture [G726]" (thank you TDW!!) catching away of the Church

The Rapture is not a choice.
So when it happens, those who are His, are taken by force..
Says alot about mankind, even believers......

God Bless!

This is true. I figure "apostasia" is just describing a change of state, and a change of estate.....

 

[cv5]

Since we are presently in a period of apostasy, you can open your eyes and accept the truth. And 1 Thess 4 seems to indicate that this will precede the Rapture -- "our gathering together unto Him". Also the Olivet Discourse would confirm this.

Yes we are in a period of apostasy but so was John and Peter. Paul is hardly excoriating the Thessalonians in 1Thess 4. Nothing like he was the Corinthians. Paul is not saying the Thessalonians are walking in their lusts, he's saying at the GENTILES do. And then he goes on to commend them for their brotherly love.

There is nothing like severe criticism for the Thessalonians in either of those two books. That's another big warning flag that "the apostasy" doesn't fit.

Something else to think about there is nothing in THE TEXT of 2T2:3 that would indicate "a falling away from the faith". What's worse people call it the great apostasy yet there certainly nothing of the text whatsoever that indicates greatness.

I think the translators and commentators way way out of line here. The story of how they got there is available to anybody who seeks it.

 

[rayzor]

Yes we are in a period of apostasy but so was John and Peter. Paul is hardly excoriating the Thessalonians in 1Thess 4. Nothing like he was the Corinthians. Paul is not saying the Thessalonians are walking in their lusts, he's saying at the GENTILES do. And then he goes on to commend them for their brotherly love.

There is nothing like severe criticism for the Thessalonians in either of those two books. That's another big warning flag that "the apostasy" doesn't fit.

Something else to think about there is nothing in THE TEXT of 2T2:3 that would indicate "a falling away from the faith". What's worse people call it the great apostasy yet there certainly nothing of the text whatsoever that indicates greatness.

I think the translators and commentators way way out of line here. The story of how they got there is available to anybody who seeks it.

Proverbs 30:14 there is a generation whose teeth are swords ...
There is a of generation whose teeth are like swords, And jaws are like knives, To devour the afflicted from the earth, And the needy from among men.

 

[cv5]

That's not from Strong's concordance.



apostasis isn't even in bible. Paul used apostasia and it means a falling away/departure from the faith.



No, he didn't.



This is wrong and has been wrong this whole time. You make error after error, switching words and definitions. This is false teaching and it needs to be exposed every time it is seen.

Ooohhkay...you got me on a typo (golf clap).

<<<Wrong. Accurately the definition is literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
That's not from Strong's concordance.>>>

Yes it is. This business of apostasy or falling away from the faith or greatness DOES NOT BELONG here. It is the assumption and erroneous opinion of the translators only. Which happened some time around the reformation. Before that, fully SEVEN translations properly used the term "DEPARTURE".

HELPS Word-studies
STRONG'S # 646 – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

 

[rayzor]

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") leave depart + stand

 

[cv5]

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, (2Th 2:1 AV)

Wording here implies a difference between the coming and our gathering...

No?

Correct. Verse 1 and verse 3 have the same timeline components IMO. Intentionally so as to CONSOLE THE THESSALONIANS. Which is the express purpose of vv. 1-10. Verse 3 says "don't worry about it....you wont even see the rise of the man of sin."

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ [DOTL], and [by] our gathering together unto him [CHURCH IS GONE]

Coverdale Bible 1535
Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the departynge [CHURCH IS GONE] come first, and that that Man of synne be opened [DOTL], euen the sonne of perdicion,

Coverdale got he translation right that's for sure. I was careful not to upset anybody by using the term "rapture" lol.

 

[cv5]

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") leave depart + stand

Leave, depart, stand away from the WRATH OF GOD upon the earth....

That is the intent of the entire passage vv. 1-10.....reaffirming an earlier teaching, rebuilding confidence in the Thessalonians that their DEPARTURE before the DOTL commences is assured.

The logical inference is that the Thessalonians thought that they had MISSED THE RAPTURE, so Paul writes must needs to codify these passages.

Same thing goes for the other "assembly" and "rapture" passages in both 1&2 Thess.

Where are all of those dozens and hundreds of passages that Paul wrote about CERTAIN MASSIVE SLAUGHTER and extermination of Christians when the son of perdition arises????????? That's right, they don't exist.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Wrong. Strongs # 646.....Is only used twice. 2Thes2:3 and Acts 21:21.

Do you think Felix would have detained Paul, or Festus and Agrippa would have wasted their time on a guy being accused of preaching "depature"? Paul emphatically denies being guilty of what he is being accused of by the jews because they are accusing him of REBELLION, just like they did Jesus.
Why does Paul and the others deny what the Jews say? Because coming to Jesus would not be described as REBELLION against Moses. How could it be REBELLION when Moses points to Jesus, and the authority comes from him.
Think about it, your post is saying you agree with the Jews charges against Paul- that he was preaching "apostasian".... which Paul denies. Is that really the position you want to take?