The 2 verses I used to start this thread refute Premillennialism 
....sorry!
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2 verses that refute all forms of Premillennialism
- Thread starter delirious
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ROFL.......note to self: READ CAREFULLY
....sorry!
....sorry!
I guess we will just have to wait to find out who is right. Maybe we will both be surprised?
You were not in context. I already showed that. We can disagree on when Rev 20 starts.
Since I already refuted your 2 verses in my last post I wanted to mention the 2 verses I presented once again and make it as simple as I can.
Job 14: 12 says "Man does not rise until the heavens are no more". Premillennialism lies and say man does. Premillennialism is proven false by Scripture.
Rev 11: 18 and Rev 20: 11-15 are the only 2 places in the Bible we see "the dead being judged". One is the seventh trumpet and the other is the Great White Throne judgment. So we need to ask ourselves this simple question:
Are the dead judged twice? Hebrews 9: 27, "It is given to man once to die and then THE judgment." The definite article. One judgment for every man.
So we know that when the seventh trumpet sounds "the dead are judged" and the Great White Throne Judgment begins after it sounds.
We know from Rev 20 that the Great White Throne happens after the 1,000 years earlier in the chapter.
Therefore, the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years of Rev 20. Not before like the premillennialist falsely claims. He must say the seventh trumpet is before to make room for his false doctrine of Christ ruling on earth for 1,000 years. It has been demonstrated conclusively using Scripture, and the simple timeline from Rev 20, that the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years.
Both Job 14: 12 and Rev 11; 18 when combined with the GWT judgment in Rev 20: 11-15 make it IMPOSSIBLE for any form of premillennialism to be true.
If you want to believe in fantasies that is up to you. If I was presented with conclusive evidence I would change my position.
Since I already refuted your 2 verses in my last post I wanted to mention the 2 verses I presented once again and make it as simple as I can.
Job 14: 12 says "Man does not rise until the heavens are no more". Premillennialism lies and say man does. Premillennialism is proven false by Scripture.
Rev 11: 18 and Rev 20: 11-15 are the only 2 places in the Bible we see "the dead being judged". One is the seventh trumpet and the other is the Great White Throne judgment. So we need to ask ourselves this simple question:
Are the dead judged twice? Hebrews 9: 27, "It is given to man once to die and then THE judgment." The definite article. One judgment for every man.
So we know that when the seventh trumpet sounds "the dead are judged" and the Great White Throne Judgment begins after it sounds.
We know from Rev 20 that the Great White Throne happens after the 1,000 years earlier in the chapter.
Therefore, the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years of Rev 20. Not before like the premillennialist falsely claims. He must say the seventh trumpet is before to make room for his false doctrine of Christ ruling on earth for 1,000 years. It has been demonstrated conclusively using Scripture, and the simple timeline from Rev 20, that the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years.
Both Job 14: 12 and Rev 11; 18 when combined with the GWT judgment in Rev 20: 11-15 make it IMPOSSIBLE for any form of premillennialism to be true.
If you want to believe in fantasies that is up to you. If I was presented with conclusive evidence I would change my position.
All with no historical evidence.
Why?
IT IS FUTURE....NEVER HAPPENED.
Not to mention Christ returning on a white horse BEFORE THE MIL.
No, you guys haven't, except for a few really bad attempts that failed.
They both happen at the Great White Throne and are the SAME judgment which is the GWT.
I appreciate that and I have nothing against anybody in these forums. I enjoy discussing different subjects with many of the people on here, including you. We are all just trying to get at the truth of what the Scripture says.
I must admit, I marvel that you guys hold on to premillennialism so tenaciously. The timeline of Rev 20 shows that the seventh trumpet of Rev 11: 18 is after the 1,000 years. Therefore it cannot be before like the premill needs it to be. Therefore the premill position cannot be true according to Scripture. Job 14: 12 also confirms this.
I have tried my best but if people refuse to see it they will remain blind and with false doctrine.
They both happen at the Great White Throne and are the SAME judgment which is the GWT.
I appreciate that and I have nothing against anybody in these forums. I enjoy discussing different subjects with many of the people on here, including you. We are all just trying to get at the truth of what the Scripture says.
I must admit, I marvel that you guys hold on to premillennialism so tenaciously. The timeline of Rev 20 shows that the seventh trumpet of Rev 11: 18 is after the 1,000 years. Therefore it cannot be before like the premill needs it to be. Therefore the premill position cannot be true according to Scripture. Job 14: 12 also confirms this.
I have tried my best but if people refuse to see it they will remain blind and with false doctrine.
We can also see That amil concept originated through a "destroyed Israel" prism.
OK @delirious
lets try it like this:
Amillennialism is true. Even then what you are suggesting Job 14:12 is saying wouldnt work. Here is why:
You believe Revelation 20:11 is the second coming, correct? Well notice that the earth is being destroyed. So if there is no resurrection before the earth is destroyed, that would mean God destroys all christians along with this earth! That doesn't make much sense. The rapture has to take place atleast before the world is destroyed? That is what I usually hear regular amills say.
What you are suggesting would have Christians destroyed and then resurrected. The reason this is the case is because since there is only one resurrection, and its at the last day, you have to be resurrected(translated,raptured, whatever) before the earth is destroyed and 1 Thess 4:16-17 says the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST.
Hope yuo see it.
lets try it like this:
Amillennialism is true. Even then what you are suggesting Job 14:12 is saying wouldnt work. Here is why:
You believe Revelation 20:11 is the second coming, correct? Well notice that the earth is being destroyed. So if there is no resurrection before the earth is destroyed, that would mean God destroys all christians along with this earth! That doesn't make much sense. The rapture has to take place atleast before the world is destroyed? That is what I usually hear regular amills say.
What you are suggesting would have Christians destroyed and then resurrected. The reason this is the case is because since there is only one resurrection, and its at the last day, you have to be resurrected(translated,raptured, whatever) before the earth is destroyed and 1 Thess 4:16-17 says the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST.
Hope yuo see it.
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Remember Job 14: 12 says nothing about the earth. Only the heavens will be no more when the dead rise. I think this passage might help answer your question:
Daniel 3: 19-25, "Then Nebuchadnezzar was full of fury, and the expression on his face changed toward Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. He spoke and commanded that they heat the furnace seven times more than it was usually heated. 20 And he commanded certain mighty men of valor who were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, and cast them into the burning fiery furnace. 21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their trousers, their turbans, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 22 Therefore, because the king’s command was urgent, and the furnace exceedingly hot, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. 23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”
They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”
25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
2 Thess 1: 8 says Jesus returns in "flaming fire" and 2 peter 3: 10 say the heavens will "pass away and melt with fervent heat". No mention of the earth being destroyed before the heavens. The heavens go first.
I think Jesus will preserves His sheep at His return just like He preserved Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. You already have a precedent for it in Scripture above.
Daniel 3: 19-25, "Then Nebuchadnezzar was full of fury, and the expression on his face changed toward Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. He spoke and commanded that they heat the furnace seven times more than it was usually heated. 20 And he commanded certain mighty men of valor who were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, and cast them into the burning fiery furnace. 21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their trousers, their turbans, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 22 Therefore, because the king’s command was urgent, and the furnace exceedingly hot, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. 23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”
They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”
25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
2 Thess 1: 8 says Jesus returns in "flaming fire" and 2 peter 3: 10 say the heavens will "pass away and melt with fervent heat". No mention of the earth being destroyed before the heavens. The heavens go first.
I think Jesus will preserves His sheep at His return just like He preserved Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. You already have a precedent for it in Scripture above.