The seven candlesticks of God

[VW]

John described seven candlesticks that he saw in heaven in his account in the revelation of Jesus Christ. He called these the "seven spirits of God" what could he have meant by this?

In this revelation, Jesus gave John seven messages, on e each to one of seven churches. These messages were addressed to "the angel of the church at......) most of these seven churches had issues, things which Jesus was not happy with. The message given last was to a church which had, for all intents and purposes, departed from Jesus altogether. Each of these churches is represented by a candlestick before the throne of God. These candlesticks are the Holy Spirit, as He stands before God as the life of each church. The light of these candlesticks will never go out, nor even dim, as they stand before His throne. How much light they reveal in the world through their church is another matter.

The plain truth is that there has not been a chrich yet that reflects the light of it's Spirit in fullness. At best, only a fraction of the light available has ever been displayed by any church. And when the light becomes less inhibited by the church, wonderful and marvelous things have happened. Many, many souls have been saved.

I believe that each church has existed and even still exists, from the time of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. That even in the darkests of times, some light has been displayed in the world by the church, sometimes more, and sometimes less, but always there.

We stand on a precipice, where something that has never happened in the life of the church is close to coming to pass. God is about to remove His candlestick from the church this day. Less light is seen now than at any other time, as hard to believe as that is. We believe that we display His light,'but do we really? If it is not the light that comes from the Spirit of God, then it is not His light, not the one He has given for us to display.

Soon, God will remove His candlestick from the church of today. Oh, there will be some who will still have light, because they have sought Him and Him alone. They have denied any worth that they might have, to have the fellowship of the Holy Spirit along with Christ Jesus. But they are few.

And God has called servants out from among the church of today, and He has stripped from them all self worth, all pride, all sufficiency and reliance on any thing but the Holy Spirit.

Watch, as the days of calamity come upon her. But do not take pleasure in her distress.

In Christ

 

[phil36]

Hi VW,

Even if this is true.. remember the church is me and you and everyone else...why is the light not shining????

 

[VW]

To answer that question, we need to ask just what the light is. In John 3 we find Jesus saying that the Son of God is the light of the world. Showing the light of God in the world is literally showing, or manifesting Jesus, His life in the world. We do this by the Holy Spirit, and only by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was very specific with the disciples when He commanded them to wait until they had received power from on high, which would make them witnesses to Him in the whole world.

We don't manifest Jesus to the world. Not as we should.

 

[Red33]

To answer that question, we need to ask just what the light is. In John 3 we find Jesus saying that the Son of God is the light of the world. Showing the light of God in the world is literally showing, or manifesting Jesus, His life in the world. We do this by the Holy Spirit, and only by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was very specific with the disciples when He commanded them to wait until they had received power from on high, which would make them witnesses to Him in the whole world.

We don't manifest Jesus to the world. Not as we should.

Eph 5:8 For you were sometimes darkness but now you are light in the Lord.

The above verse was spoken to the church in Ephesus that had a problem with doing their first works (Rev 2:4,5).

To get us as members of the body of Christ and the church to walk in the light (Jn 12:35) and be children of light (Jn 12:36), God has to edify and build us up in the light. How is that done? The entrance of God's word gives light and understanding to the simple (Ps 119:130). We need a daily intake of God's word, as children of light, so that we can hide and store it up in our heart and in the rooms of our soul (Ps 119:11), to let it dwell richly in all wisdom (Col 3:16). This light that comes from God's word is the light of life that is revealed to us in Christ (Jn 8:12). As we abide in Him (who is the light of the world) and His words (of light) abide in us, then we will have what we need to walk in as children of light (Eph 5:8).

When a person is in darkness you give them light and when they respond to the light they will begin to walk in the light instead of the darkness. Believers need to know that they are children of light and not of darkness.

Eph 5:13,14 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith , Awake thou that sleepest , and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

When we are reproved it is because of the light, to wake us out of our sleep and arise from the dead to receive the light Christ has to give us. When we receive this light and walk in the light we receive, we will see more light (Ps 36:9). The church needs the light of God's word as their steady diet because they are light in the Lord. We, as the church and body of Christ, need to be edified and built up in the light and we should be focused on what we should be doing and not what we are not doing. God's light will give us the truth of who we are and what we are to do and that will take care of the darkness and error of what we have been abiding in.

God is more interested in giving light to the candle then He is putting it out. We are the light of the world as ambassadors of Christ, so let's let our light so shine before men that they may glorify our Father in heaven (Mt 5:16).

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

Setting the Stage -- Salt and Light:

Matthew 5:13-16
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted?
it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of
men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth
light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your
Father which is in heaven.

Luke 11:33
No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel,
but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.

Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden
candlesticks.
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:
and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Revelation 2:4-6
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and
do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will
remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

 

[1still_waters]

John described seven candlesticks that he saw in heaven in his account in the revelation of Jesus Christ. He called these the "seven spirits of God" what could he have meant by this?

I don't know which translation you're reading, but your claim that the seven candlesticks are the seven spirits of God, doesn't make sense...Below we see the candle sticks are the churches. Not seven spirits of God.

Rev 1 KJV

20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

NASB

20 As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

ESV

20As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

 

[VW]

I don't know which translation you're reading, but your claim that the seven candlesticks are the seven spirits of God, doesn't make sense...Below we see the candle sticks are the churches. Not seven spirits of God.

Rev 1 KJV

20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

NASB

20 As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

ESV

20As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Rev 4:5-6 And from the throne proceed flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirit of God; and before the throne there was, as it were, a sea of glass like crystal; and in the center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind.

I did not actually read this passage before I posted this, but remember by the Holy Spirit. So maybe candlesticks might have not been the best of words to use. But I know that candlesticks has been used by the Spirit to describe these Spirit of God before, and they have been represented by candlesticks in the old testament many times.

I read the NASB.

 

[VW]

I don't know which translation you're reading, but your claim that the seven candlesticks are the seven spirits of God, doesn't make sense...Below we see the candle sticks are the churches. Not seven spirits of God.

Rev 1 KJV

20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

NASB

20 As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

ESV



20As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

The seven candlesticks represent the Spirit burning in the seven churches. Oh well, I guess this makes me a false prophet even more.

 

[1still_waters]

The seven candlesticks represent the Spirit burning in the seven churches. Oh well, I guess this makes me a false prophet even more.

It says in the bible that the seven candlesticks are the churches. It's sound add-egesis to say they are the Spirit burning in them.

If The Spirit had meant to say they represent the spirit burning in the seven churches, he would have said so.

 

[Ramon]

The seven candlesticks represent the Spirit burning in the seven churches. Oh well, I guess this makes me a false prophet even more.

I thought that is what you said to begin with?

 

[Ramon]

It says in the bible that the seven candlesticks are the churches. It's sound add-egesis to say they are the Spirit burning in them.

If The Spirit had meant to say they represent the spirit burning in the seven churches, he would have said so.

How could not the Spirit burn in any of the churches, as the churches are but people full of the Spirit?

 

[VW]

It says in the bible that the seven candlesticks are the churches. It's sound add-egesis to say they are the Spirit burning in them.

If The Spirit had meant to say they represent the spirit burning in the seven churches, he would have said so.

Hmmm...........so the churches have light themselves?

Don't you find it telling that we see seven lamps of fire before the throne in heaven, and seven candlesticks in the seven churches, and then even more revealing, Jesus telling one of the churches to: Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place - unless you repent.

 

[1still_waters]

VW this feels like another attempt at saying the churches of today are so corrupt we shouldn't listen to them at all. Mixed with your continued drum beat of lifting your self revelations above God's word, what we end up with is, you telling us not to listen to anyone at church, and to hold God's word below your self revelations. Thus positioning YOU as THE VOICE to listen too.

That is VERY dangerous. You can't extinguish the gifts found in church and diminish the Bible, as some gambit move to make your self revelations reign supreme.

 

[1still_waters]

How could not the Spirit burn in any of the churches, as the churches are but people full of the Spirit?

I'm not going to add stuff to God's word that isn't there. It doesn't say the candle represents the Spirit.

I'm NOt saying the spirit isn't in the church, I'm just saying you can't make that point based on this scripture.

 

[VW]

VW this feels like another attempt at saying the churches of today are so corrupt we shouldn't listen to them at all. Mixed with your continued drum beat of lifting your self revelations above God's word, what we end up with is, you telling us not to listen to anyone at church, and to hold God's word below your self revelations. Thus positioning YOU as THE VOICE to listen too.

That is VERY dangerous. You can't extinguish the gifts found in church and diminish the Bible, as some gambit move to make your self revelations reign supreme.

I am sorry that you feel that way about me. If you knew me personally, you would never make such a judgment, and that you can only shows that you are reading with filters as it were.

What disturbs me is that you believe that the churches have light in and of themselves. And yet, clearly Jesus told one of the churches to repent or He would come and remove their light, their lampstand from them. We only have light because of the Spirit which is our light in us.

In Christ,

 

[1still_waters]

Hmmm...........so the churches have light themselves?

Don't you find it telling that we see seven lamps of fire before the throne in heaven, and seven candlesticks in the seven churches, and then even more revealing, Jesus telling one of the churches to: Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place - unless you repent.

Well seeing he defined the lampstand as a church and not as the holy spirit, I'm going to assume Jesus is saying he's going to remove that church if they don't repent.

Cuz church= lampstand. Seems clear to me. Why do we gotta over complicate this by putting stuff in the text that isn't clearly there?

If Jesus says a lampstand is a church, then it's a church. And if Jesus says he's going to remove a lampstand, then it mean he's going to remove a church, seeing he defined the lampstand as a church.

Revelation is complicated enough, quit adding stuff to it.

 

[Ramon]

Well seeing he defined the lampstand as a church and not as the holy spirit, I'm going to assume Jesus is saying he's going to remove that church if they don't repent.

Cuz church= lampstand. Seems clear to me. Why do we gotta over complicate this by putting stuff in the text that isn't clearly there?

If Jesus says a lampstand is a church, then it's a church. And if Jesus says he's going to remove a lampstand, then it mean he's going to remove a church, seeing he defined the lampstand as a church.

Revelation is complicated enough, quit adding stuff to it.

Revelation is not complicated when it is revealed. It is when men interpret that it becomes complicated.

 

[1still_waters]

What disturbs me is that you believe that the churches have light in and of themselves. And yet, clearly Jesus told one of the churches to repent or He would come and remove their light, their lampstand from them. We only have light because of the Spirit which is our light in us.

In Christ,

No, the problem is that the text says the lampstand is the church. I think due to your belief that your hear God's voice, you feel at liberty to add something to the text that isn't there.

 

[1still_waters]

Revelation is not complicated when it is revealed. It is when men interpret that it becomes complicated.

Jesus revealed that a lampstand is a church. He didn't reveal that it's the Holy Spirit.

I just don't see how this is that complicated.

 

[Ramon]

Jesus revealed that a lampstand is a church. He didn't reveal that it's the Holy Spirit.

I just don't see how this is that complicated.

This is where it is important to see what the Church is, as it is not a building people go to. But it is all those who are lead by the Spirit of God. So to say that it is a church is to say that it is a body of believers lead by the Spirit. If a lamp is removed from it's place how will that church receive light?