I'm just curious as to how many of the fine folks of CC study topics like church history, textual criticism, higher criticism, patristics, and the like? And to what extent? To those who study- do you ever use critical sources, or do you tend to stay within accepted conservative Christian sources? Are critical sources beneficial for study or harmful?
Do you study topics like textual criticism?
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S
Dear friend
I have studied Sturz's book on the Byzantine Text type, Pickering's book The Identity of the New Testament text. The text types, Byzantine, Textus Receptus, Majority Text form, are very similar. I am not an expert in the differences. I would not say necessarily that the TR of the KJV is the best, most accurate text. It is one good text among many good texts. I would not say that the Alexandrian, Western, and Caesarean texts are inferior. I don't know enough of Greek to form a judgment. Maybe Cleante who is Greek Orthodox can enlighten us as to which text of the New Testament is the best, most accurate text used by the Greek Orthodox Church. Isn't it the Constantinople text (Patriarchal Text), sometime in the early 20th century, I think dated somewhere between 1902 and 1906, or something, the year when it was published in Constantinople.
God bless you. In Erie Scott Harrington
PS I have also studied Hill's book which defends the KJV and the TR.
I have studied Sturz's book on the Byzantine Text type, Pickering's book The Identity of the New Testament text. The text types, Byzantine, Textus Receptus, Majority Text form, are very similar. I am not an expert in the differences. I would not say necessarily that the TR of the KJV is the best, most accurate text. It is one good text among many good texts. I would not say that the Alexandrian, Western, and Caesarean texts are inferior. I don't know enough of Greek to form a judgment. Maybe Cleante who is Greek Orthodox can enlighten us as to which text of the New Testament is the best, most accurate text used by the Greek Orthodox Church. Isn't it the Constantinople text (Patriarchal Text), sometime in the early 20th century, I think dated somewhere between 1902 and 1906, or something, the year when it was published in Constantinople.
God bless you. In Erie Scott Harrington
PS I have also studied Hill's book which defends the KJV and the TR.
A
lol I study everything and anything 
I tend to read whatever is given to me by people around me are is recommended by people on topics and since I have Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu and other religious friends who also study a topic the variety can be quite diverse.
I found the saying study anything but beware of what you believe and allow to grow in your heart a wise lesson to keep in mind.
I study to better understand those around me
but I pray to better understand God's heart and love for those around me.
if that makes any sense. lol
However the more I learn the more I realize how much I have yet to even discover. I love Newton's quote about the whole matter of knowledge.
"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
-Sir Issac Newton, 1642-1727
I tend to read whatever is given to me by people around me are is recommended by people on topics and since I have Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu and other religious friends who also study a topic the variety can be quite diverse.I found the saying study anything but beware of what you believe and allow to grow in your heart a wise lesson to keep in mind.
I study to better understand those around me
but I pray to better understand God's heart and love for those around me.
if that makes any sense. lol
However the more I learn the more I realize how much I have yet to even discover. I love Newton's quote about the whole matter of knowledge.
"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
-Sir Issac Newton, 1642-1727
S
Dear Cleante;
Do you have access to the complete works of Saint Photios? Of Saint Gregory Palamas? Of Saint Mark of Ephesus? Will these some day all be available in the English language for English-speaking Eastern Orthodox Christians. As not all Eastern Orthodox Christians can read the original Greek? For Orthodoxy to expand and grow in North America, it will need to move beyond the mother tongues of Greek, Russian, Church Slavonic, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Romanian, Belarusian, and any of the other Eastern Orthodox Church languages by Eastern Orthodox Christians here in N. America in the diaspora. God bless the Orthodox Church both in the original lands and in the new world of the USA too. Would the complete works of Saint John Chrysostom from Migne Patrologia Graeca ever be completely translated into English. Would the Eastern Orthodox Church bishops and priests and deacons ever translate all of these Church Fathers from Greek and maybe also the Latin Church Fathers (who were still Orthodox until about 800 or so maybe). The major problem in Latin Fathers is mostly with Augustine of Hippo, ISTM. God save us!
Do you have access to the complete works of Saint Photios? Of Saint Gregory Palamas? Of Saint Mark of Ephesus? Will these some day all be available in the English language for English-speaking Eastern Orthodox Christians. As not all Eastern Orthodox Christians can read the original Greek? For Orthodoxy to expand and grow in North America, it will need to move beyond the mother tongues of Greek, Russian, Church Slavonic, Serbian, Macedonian, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Romanian, Belarusian, and any of the other Eastern Orthodox Church languages by Eastern Orthodox Christians here in N. America in the diaspora. God bless the Orthodox Church both in the original lands and in the new world of the USA too. Would the complete works of Saint John Chrysostom from Migne Patrologia Graeca ever be completely translated into English. Would the Eastern Orthodox Church bishops and priests and deacons ever translate all of these Church Fathers from Greek and maybe also the Latin Church Fathers (who were still Orthodox until about 800 or so maybe). The major problem in Latin Fathers is mostly with Augustine of Hippo, ISTM. God save us!
Hey Scott- please understand I do not mean any sarcasm or offense:
What you wrote is something you should send to Cleante in a personal message. It has nothing to do with the thread topic. Lately I've seen ALL of the threads I've started get sidetracked into issues not related to the original post. It is annoying, frustrating, and sometimes the new topic completely offsets and replaces the intended purpose of the thread. I know you did not intend to do anything like that, but I feel the need to start helping EVERYONE realize when they are 'hijacking' a thread.
Have a blessed day.
DM
What you wrote is something you should send to Cleante in a personal message. It has nothing to do with the thread topic. Lately I've seen ALL of the threads I've started get sidetracked into issues not related to the original post. It is annoying, frustrating, and sometimes the new topic completely offsets and replaces the intended purpose of the thread. I know you did not intend to do anything like that, but I feel the need to start helping EVERYONE realize when they are 'hijacking' a thread.
Have a blessed day.
DM
A
lol I study everything and anything I tend to read whatever is given to me by people around me are is recommended by people on topics and since I have Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu and
Really? study this Amazon.com: The New York Times Dessert Cookbook (9780312340605): Florence Fabricant: Books Let me know if there is anything i can help with.
other religious friends who also study a topic the variety can be quite diverse.
I found the saying study anything but beware of what you believe and allow to grow in your heart a wise lesson to keep in mind.
I study to better understand those around me
but I pray to better understand God's heart and love for those around me.
if that makes any sense. lol
However the more I learn the more I realize how much I have yet to even discover. I love Newton's quote about the whole matter of knowledge.
"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
-Sir Issac Newton, 1642-1727[/QUOT
said i needed more words
I tend to read whatever is given to me by people around me are is recommended by people on topics and since I have Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu and Really? study this Amazon.com: The New York Times Dessert Cookbook (9780312340605): Florence Fabricant: Books Let me know if there is anything i can help with.
other religious friends who also study a topic the variety can be quite diverse.
I found the saying study anything but beware of what you believe and allow to grow in your heart a wise lesson to keep in mind.
I study to better understand those around me
but I pray to better understand God's heart and love for those around me.
if that makes any sense. lol
However the more I learn the more I realize how much I have yet to even discover. I love Newton's quote about the whole matter of knowledge.
"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
-Sir Issac Newton, 1642-1727[/QUOT
said i needed more words
Criticism simply means "analysis,” as in to investigate something, such as a passage, in
order to form an opinion and then use it for didactic (educational) purposes.
It can be positive and helpful or it can negative and arrogant, like any criticism.
There are three major categories of Criticism:
Higher Criticism which is considered "scholarly;” it investigates the origins, aspects,
authorship, languages, date, compositions, and literary structure and meanings, which is
good to do with the right motives and intent. This is what pastors, commentary writers,
and Bible expositors do.
Lower Criticism. This is mainly the study of manuscript evidences to determine wording,
grammar, and structure; this is what the Bible translators do. By the way only ½% of the
New Testament is in any serious dispute—mostly over grammar and spelling, and none
affects any doctrine or meaning!
Form Criticism. This is analyzing the literary forms, which is very good; however, another
aspect of this form of critique is what liberal scholars use to look for the origins of legend
and myth in the Scriptures. Most of this is reading into it the commentator's ideas and
theories, unsubstantiated by fact or sound reason. This is the bad version that many
confuse for all the views of Criticism. *1 (see Eisegesis or Isogesis note below, see also
highlights on Hermes - Liar, thief, trickster under 'Hermeneutics')
The approach of Criticism helps form our understandings and opinions so we can be good
learners and educators of the Bible. This is why reverence and humbleness are crucial;
otherwise, liberalism and discord will abound.
as in to introduce into the text one's own presuppositions, ideas, and thoughts while
ignoring what is actually there in order to satisfy one's own agendas and opinions.
In discussing Comparative Religion or when preparing for or practicing Apologetics, extra-
biblical sources are required reading as such studies relate to the 'Church' or 'rELIgions' of
today or in past history. This is a broader approach to "Hermeneutics" than Biblical
Hermeneutics but with the same approach and intent. *2 (see Note on Related Threads
below).
*2 Note: Related Threads in this forum:
COMPARATIVE RELIGION
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28540-comparative-religion.html
WHY APOLOGETICS
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/28323-why-apologetics.html
BIBLICAL HERMENEUTICS
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/26690-biblical-hermeneutics.html
Hermeneutics:
In religious studies and social philosophy, hermeneutics is the study of the theory and
practice of interpretation. Traditional hermeneutics—which includes Biblical hermeneutics
—refers to the study of the interpretation of written texts, especially texts in the areas of
literature, religion and law. Contemporary, or modern, hermeneutics encompasses not
only issues involving the written text, but everything in the interpretative process. This
includes verbal and nonverbal forms of communication as well as prior aspects that affect
communication, such as presuppositions, preunderstandings, the meaning and philosophy
of language, and semiotics.
The terms exegesis and hermeneutics are sometimes used interchangeably because
exegesis focuses primarily on the written text. Hermeneutics however is a more widely
defined discipline of interpretation theory including the entire framework of the
interpretive process and, encompassing all forms of communication and expression;
written, verbal, artistic, geo-political, physiological, sociological etc.
The folk etymology places the origin (Greek: hermeneutike) with Hermes, the
mythological Greek deity whose role is that of messenger of the Gods. Besides being
mediator between the gods themselves, and between the gods and humanity, he leads
souls to the underworld upon death. He is also considered the inventor of language and
speech, an interpreter, a liar, a thief and a trickster.
Link -->> Hermeneutics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
order to form an opinion and then use it for didactic (educational) purposes.
It can be positive and helpful or it can negative and arrogant, like any criticism.
There are three major categories of Criticism:
Higher Criticism which is considered "scholarly;” it investigates the origins, aspects,
authorship, languages, date, compositions, and literary structure and meanings, which is
good to do with the right motives and intent. This is what pastors, commentary writers,
and Bible expositors do.
Lower Criticism. This is mainly the study of manuscript evidences to determine wording,
grammar, and structure; this is what the Bible translators do. By the way only ½% of the
New Testament is in any serious dispute—mostly over grammar and spelling, and none
affects any doctrine or meaning!
Form Criticism. This is analyzing the literary forms, which is very good; however, another
aspect of this form of critique is what liberal scholars use to look for the origins of legend
and myth in the Scriptures. Most of this is reading into it the commentator's ideas and
theories, unsubstantiated by fact or sound reason. This is the bad version that many
confuse for all the views of Criticism. *1 (see Eisegesis or Isogesis note below, see also
highlights on Hermes - Liar, thief, trickster under 'Hermeneutics')
The approach of Criticism helps form our understandings and opinions so we can be good
learners and educators of the Bible. This is why reverence and humbleness are crucial;
otherwise, liberalism and discord will abound.
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not
need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
*1 Note: Eisegesis or Isogesis simply means "to lead in” or "reading into the Scriptures”need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
as in to introduce into the text one's own presuppositions, ideas, and thoughts while
ignoring what is actually there in order to satisfy one's own agendas and opinions.
In discussing Comparative Religion or when preparing for or practicing Apologetics, extra-
biblical sources are required reading as such studies relate to the 'Church' or 'rELIgions' of
today or in past history. This is a broader approach to "Hermeneutics" than Biblical
Hermeneutics but with the same approach and intent. *2 (see Note on Related Threads
below).
*2 Note: Related Threads in this forum:
COMPARATIVE RELIGION
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28540-comparative-religion.html
WHY APOLOGETICS
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/28323-why-apologetics.html
BIBLICAL HERMENEUTICS
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/26690-biblical-hermeneutics.html
Hermeneutics:
In religious studies and social philosophy, hermeneutics is the study of the theory and
practice of interpretation. Traditional hermeneutics—which includes Biblical hermeneutics
—refers to the study of the interpretation of written texts, especially texts in the areas of
literature, religion and law. Contemporary, or modern, hermeneutics encompasses not
only issues involving the written text, but everything in the interpretative process. This
includes verbal and nonverbal forms of communication as well as prior aspects that affect
communication, such as presuppositions, preunderstandings, the meaning and philosophy
of language, and semiotics.
The terms exegesis and hermeneutics are sometimes used interchangeably because
exegesis focuses primarily on the written text. Hermeneutics however is a more widely
defined discipline of interpretation theory including the entire framework of the
interpretive process and, encompassing all forms of communication and expression;
written, verbal, artistic, geo-political, physiological, sociological etc.
The folk etymology places the origin (Greek: hermeneutike) with Hermes, the
mythological Greek deity whose role is that of messenger of the Gods. Besides being
mediator between the gods themselves, and between the gods and humanity, he leads
souls to the underworld upon death. He is also considered the inventor of language and
speech, an interpreter, a liar, a thief and a trickster.
Link -->> Hermeneutics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes, I use a wide variety of sources of and for; religious, philosophical, political, legal and
literary studies. The search is for the TRUTH, the truth that sets you free. The value or
detriment depends on how a concept is applied to the Biblical Standard. There is a saying
in law:
And as to whether you're an honest man,
or whether you're a thief
depends upon who's solicitor
has given me my brief
or whether you're a thief
depends upon who's solicitor
has given me my brief
In discussing Comparative Religion or when preparing for or practicing Apologetics, extra-
biblical sources are required reading as such studies relate to the 'Church' or 'rELIgions' of
today or in past history. This is a broader approach to "Hermeneutics" than Biblical
Hermeneutics but with the same approach and intent. *2 (see Note on Related Threads
below).
*2 Note: Related Threads in this forum:
COMPARATIVE RELIGION
Link -->> COMPARATIVE RELIGION
WHY APOLOGETICS
Link -->> Why Apologetics?
BIBLICAL HERMENEUTICS
Link -->> Biblical hermeneutics
*1 Note: Eisegesis or Isogesis simply means "to lead in” or "reading into the Scriptures”
as in to introduce into the text one's own presuppositions, ideas, and thoughts while
ignoring what is actually there in order to satisfy one's own agendas and opinions.
The approach of Criticism helps form our understandings and opinions so we can be good
learners and educators of the Bible. This is why reverence and humbleness are crucial;
otherwise, liberalism and discord will abound.
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not
need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
To be clear, the roots of the faith are the foundation of all that we do. One should
understand the Doctrines and Precepts of the Bible first, before other studies are
undertaken. Recently in another forum a 17 year old was asking about studying the book
of Philippians from a ~400 page commentary. While this is a great in-depth study, many
have not read the Bible through in it's entirety. That is a better starting point. From
there our study and understanding AND Application and Outreach can grow.
So it depends where one is in their walk, and what their ministry calling is.
Do you have studies you have undertaken or are interested that you would care to
share?
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27584-systematic-theology.html
BIBLICAL HERMENEUTICS
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/26690-biblical-hermeneutics.html
Hermeneutics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia see also Biblical hermeneutics
DOCTRINAL STATEMENT
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/26386-doctrinal-statement-mission-statement.html
PRACTICAL REPENTANCE UNTO SALVATION
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28385-practical-repentance-unto-salvation.html
WHY APOLOGETICS
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/28323-why-apologetics.html
COMPARATIVE RELIGION
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28540-comparative-religion.html
understand the Doctrines and Precepts of the Bible first, before other studies are
undertaken. Recently in another forum a 17 year old was asking about studying the book
of Philippians from a ~400 page commentary. While this is a great in-depth study, many
have not read the Bible through in it's entirety. That is a better starting point. From
there our study and understanding AND Application and Outreach can grow.
So it depends where one is in their walk, and what their ministry calling is.
Do you have studies you have undertaken or are interested that you would care to
share?
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/27584-systematic-theology.html
BIBLICAL HERMENEUTICS
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/26690-biblical-hermeneutics.html
Hermeneutics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia see also Biblical hermeneutics
DOCTRINAL STATEMENT
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/26386-doctrinal-statement-mission-statement.html
PRACTICAL REPENTANCE UNTO SALVATION
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28385-practical-repentance-unto-salvation.html
WHY APOLOGETICS
http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/28323-why-apologetics.html
COMPARATIVE RELIGION
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/28540-comparative-religion.html
The main reason I thought to ask this question in the first place is because I see a lot of debate on CC where people argue over the interpretation of this passage or that, but it is clear that none of the people in the debate have looked into other aspects of the passage- such as whether there are textual (manuscript) issues, questions about authoriship, or other relevant questions. The doctrine of biblical inerrancy and authority, together with the "closed canon" are taken to mean that what we hold in front of us is, word for word, unquestionably God's word and the human authors' words, regardless of what others may think from an historical or critical standpoint.
My point is that doctrines like inerrancy and canonicity are FAITH statements, not historical-critical ones. In other words they are doctrines based on the Bible's statements about itself and on trust that God's providence guided the canonization process, rather than on empircally verifiable information like the findings of textual criticism and historical research in patristics.
My point is that doctrines like inerrancy and canonicity are FAITH statements, not historical-critical ones. In other words they are doctrines based on the Bible's statements about itself and on trust that God's providence guided the canonization process, rather than on empircally verifiable information like the findings of textual criticism and historical research in patristics.
As an example to illustrate my point, take the pastoral epistles. It is as close to a historical-critical certainty as possible that Paul did not author any of these three books in their present form. From an historical perspective there is NO evidence that these letters were written prior to 100AD (no manuscripts, no unquestionable patristic quotations, the letters evidence advanced church order not present in Paul's lifetime), which is probably not less than 35 years after Paul's death. From a critical perspective these letters cannot be Paul's because there are so many grammar, vocabulary, and stylistic differences from the known authentic letters of Paul.
From a faith-statement perspective it is acceptable to say that these are Paul's letters, but some of the findings of historical-critical scholars ought to play at least marginally in the debates I see on CC, although not, perhaps, for the specific issues listed here.
From a faith-statement perspective it is acceptable to say that these are Paul's letters, but some of the findings of historical-critical scholars ought to play at least marginally in the debates I see on CC, although not, perhaps, for the specific issues listed here.
Thanks for clarifying. A good summary article on the Authorship and Authenticity of the
Pauline Epistles can be found at - Link -->> Authorship of the Pauline epistles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is certainly higher criticism and it is a valid topic. Yahoo Groups (Yahoo! Groups : Directory : Religion & Beliefs)
have entire sets of scholarly debates on just the Johannine Literature as well as groups
on Canonicity and Authorship, Archeology, Bible Coding and other related areas (in which I
participate or monitor). Many or most of the persons in these groups are either
students of Theology at the Masters level or are professors or preachers. Others are
welcomed to join but there are ground rules for discussion and discourse. Other forums
on Yahoo are less formal and open to discourse.
For these forums, I take the Bible as it is. We can discuss apparent contradictions or
errors in the scripture as given if that might lead you back to authorship, canonicity,
authenticity and like issues. We certainly get into enough debate over doctrine and
wording as it is, but to make a point that we are missing a larger issue is also valid.
Here there are threads that pertain to Systematic Theology and Hermeneutics that
attempt to provide a forum for these discussions, and many individual threads about
certain concepts, doctrines, verses and words. In addition, making a separate [set of?]
thread on Canonicity, Authorship, Authenticity, Archeology and similar topics I am sure
would be accepted if not welcomed or much participated in, but are certainly valid "Bible
Study" topics.
When I look at my own threads, I see style changes based on response to certain
questions, audience, prior discussion, my demeanor at the time and other factors. I see a
possibility that one might question Language and Style differences, hopefully less so,
Doctrinal or Theological Differences.
Regards, Digital_Angel_316
Scholars seek to correct 'mistakes' in Bible
Experts say they're looking to publish the authoritative edition of the Old Testament
By MATTI FRIEDMAN
updated 2 hours 47 minutes ago 2011-08-12T11:12:38
Dr. Michael Segal, editor for the Hebrew University Bible Project, center, Dr. Rafael Zer, editorial
coordinator, left, and Efrat Leibowitz, graduate research assistant, confer in their office at the Hebrew
University in Jerusalem on Wednesday. The ongoing work of these academic detectives shows that this
foundation text of Western civilization has always been more fluid than many people's strongly held
beliefs would suggest.
JERUSALEM — A dull-looking chart projected on the wall of a university office in Jerusalem
displayed a revelation that would startle many readers of the Old Testament: The sacred
text that people revered in the past was not the same one we study today.
An ancient version of one book has an extra phrase. Another appears to have been
revised to retroactively insert a prophecy after the events happened.
Scholars in this out-of-the-way corner of the Hebrew University campus have been
quietly at work for 53 years on one of the most ambitious projects attempted in biblical
studies — publishing the authoritative edition of the Old Testament, also known as the
Hebrew Bible, and tracking every single evolution of the text over centuries and millennia.
And it has evolved, despite deeply held beliefs to the contrary.
For many Jews and Christians, religion dictates that the words of the Bible in the original
Hebrew are divine, unaltered and unalterable.
For Orthodox Jews, the accuracy is considered so inviolable that if a synagogue's Torah
scroll is found to have a minute error in a single letter, the entire scroll is unusable.
But the ongoing work of the academic detectives of the Bible Project, as their undertaking
is known, shows that this text at the root of Judaism, Christianity and Islam was
somewhat fluid for long periods of its history, and that its transmission through the ages
was messier and more human than most of us imagine.
'Must be of interest'
The project's scholars have been at work on their critical edition of the Hebrew Bible, a
version intended mainly for the use of other scholars, since 1958.
"What we're doing here must be of interest for anyone interested in the Bible," said
Michael Segal, the scholar who heads the project.
The sheer volume of information makes the Bible Project's version "the most
comprehensive critical edition of the Hebrew Bible in existence at the present time," said
David Marcus, a Bible scholar at the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York, who is not
involved with the project.
But Segal and his colleagues toil in relative anonymity. Their undertaking is nearly
unknown outside a circle of Bible experts numbering several hundred people at most, and
a visitor asking directions to the Bible Project's office on the university campus will find
that many members of the university's own staff have never heard of it.
This is an endeavor so meticulous, its pace so disconnected from that of the world
outside, that in more than five decades of work the scholars have published a grand total
of three of the Hebrew Bible's 24 books. (Christians count the same books differently, for
a total of 39.) A fourth is due out during the upcoming academic year.
If the pace is maintained, the final product will be complete a little over 200 years from
now. This is both a point of pride and a matter of some mild self-deprecation around the
office.
Bible Project scholars have spent years combing through manuscripts such as the Dead
Sea Scrolls, Greek translations on papyrus from Egypt, a printed Bible from 1525 Venice,
parchment books in handwritten Hebrew, the Samaritan Torah, and scrolls in Aramaic and
Latin. The last member of the original team died last year at age 90.
Inevitable hiccups, scribal errors
The scholars note where the text we have now differs from older versions — differences
that are evidence of the inevitable textual hiccups, scribal errors and other human
fingerprints that became part of the Bible as it was passed on, orally and in writing.
A Microsoft Excel chart projected on one wall on a recent Sunday showed variations in a
single phrase from the Book of Malachi, a prophet.
The verse in question, from the text we know today, makes reference to "those who
swear falsely." The scholars have found that in quotes from rabbinic writings around the
5th century A.D., the phrase was longer: "those who swear falsely in my name."
In another example, this one from the Book of Deuteronomy, a passage referring to
commandments given by God "to you" once read "to us," a significant change in meaning.
The Book of Jeremiah is now one-seventh longer than the one that appears in some of
the 2,000-year-old manuscripts known as the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Some verses, including ones containing a prophecy about the seizure and return of
Temple implements by Babylonian soldiers, appear to have been added after the events
happened.
Cheese merchant turned smuggler
The year the Bible Project began, 1958, was the year a priceless Hebrew Bible manuscript
arrived in Jerusalem after it was smuggled out of Aleppo, Syria, by a Jewish cheese
merchant who hid it in his washing machine.
This was the 1,100-year-old Aleppo Codex, considered the oldest and most accurate
version of the complete biblical text in Hebrew.
The Bible Project's version of the core text — the one to which the others are compared —
is based on this manuscript.
Other critical editions of the Bible, such as one currently being prepared in Stuttgart,
Germany, are based on a slightly newer manuscript held in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Considering that the nature of their work would be considered controversial, if not
offensive, by many religious people, it is perhaps surprising that most of the project's
scholars are themselves Orthodox Jews.
"A believing Jew claims that the source of the Bible is prophecy," said the project's
bearded academic secretary, Rafael Zer. "But as soon as the words are given to human
beings — with God's agreement, and at his initiative — the holiness of the biblical text
remains, even if mistakes are made when the text is passed on."
Copyright 2011 The Associated Press.
Link -->> Scholars seek to correct 'mistakes' in Bible - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com
Experts say they're looking to publish the authoritative edition of the Old Testament
By MATTI FRIEDMAN
updated 2 hours 47 minutes ago 2011-08-12T11:12:38
Dr. Michael Segal, editor for the Hebrew University Bible Project, center, Dr. Rafael Zer, editorial
coordinator, left, and Efrat Leibowitz, graduate research assistant, confer in their office at the Hebrew
University in Jerusalem on Wednesday. The ongoing work of these academic detectives shows that this
foundation text of Western civilization has always been more fluid than many people's strongly held
beliefs would suggest.
JERUSALEM — A dull-looking chart projected on the wall of a university office in Jerusalem
displayed a revelation that would startle many readers of the Old Testament: The sacred
text that people revered in the past was not the same one we study today.
An ancient version of one book has an extra phrase. Another appears to have been
revised to retroactively insert a prophecy after the events happened.
Scholars in this out-of-the-way corner of the Hebrew University campus have been
quietly at work for 53 years on one of the most ambitious projects attempted in biblical
studies — publishing the authoritative edition of the Old Testament, also known as the
Hebrew Bible, and tracking every single evolution of the text over centuries and millennia.
And it has evolved, despite deeply held beliefs to the contrary.
For many Jews and Christians, religion dictates that the words of the Bible in the original
Hebrew are divine, unaltered and unalterable.
For Orthodox Jews, the accuracy is considered so inviolable that if a synagogue's Torah
scroll is found to have a minute error in a single letter, the entire scroll is unusable.
But the ongoing work of the academic detectives of the Bible Project, as their undertaking
is known, shows that this text at the root of Judaism, Christianity and Islam was
somewhat fluid for long periods of its history, and that its transmission through the ages
was messier and more human than most of us imagine.
'Must be of interest'
The project's scholars have been at work on their critical edition of the Hebrew Bible, a
version intended mainly for the use of other scholars, since 1958.
"What we're doing here must be of interest for anyone interested in the Bible," said
Michael Segal, the scholar who heads the project.
The sheer volume of information makes the Bible Project's version "the most
comprehensive critical edition of the Hebrew Bible in existence at the present time," said
David Marcus, a Bible scholar at the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York, who is not
involved with the project.
But Segal and his colleagues toil in relative anonymity. Their undertaking is nearly
unknown outside a circle of Bible experts numbering several hundred people at most, and
a visitor asking directions to the Bible Project's office on the university campus will find
that many members of the university's own staff have never heard of it.
This is an endeavor so meticulous, its pace so disconnected from that of the world
outside, that in more than five decades of work the scholars have published a grand total
of three of the Hebrew Bible's 24 books. (Christians count the same books differently, for
a total of 39.) A fourth is due out during the upcoming academic year.
If the pace is maintained, the final product will be complete a little over 200 years from
now. This is both a point of pride and a matter of some mild self-deprecation around the
office.
Bible Project scholars have spent years combing through manuscripts such as the Dead
Sea Scrolls, Greek translations on papyrus from Egypt, a printed Bible from 1525 Venice,
parchment books in handwritten Hebrew, the Samaritan Torah, and scrolls in Aramaic and
Latin. The last member of the original team died last year at age 90.
Inevitable hiccups, scribal errors
The scholars note where the text we have now differs from older versions — differences
that are evidence of the inevitable textual hiccups, scribal errors and other human
fingerprints that became part of the Bible as it was passed on, orally and in writing.
A Microsoft Excel chart projected on one wall on a recent Sunday showed variations in a
single phrase from the Book of Malachi, a prophet.
The verse in question, from the text we know today, makes reference to "those who
swear falsely." The scholars have found that in quotes from rabbinic writings around the
5th century A.D., the phrase was longer: "those who swear falsely in my name."
In another example, this one from the Book of Deuteronomy, a passage referring to
commandments given by God "to you" once read "to us," a significant change in meaning.
The Book of Jeremiah is now one-seventh longer than the one that appears in some of
the 2,000-year-old manuscripts known as the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Some verses, including ones containing a prophecy about the seizure and return of
Temple implements by Babylonian soldiers, appear to have been added after the events
happened.
Cheese merchant turned smuggler
The year the Bible Project began, 1958, was the year a priceless Hebrew Bible manuscript
arrived in Jerusalem after it was smuggled out of Aleppo, Syria, by a Jewish cheese
merchant who hid it in his washing machine.
This was the 1,100-year-old Aleppo Codex, considered the oldest and most accurate
version of the complete biblical text in Hebrew.
The Bible Project's version of the core text — the one to which the others are compared —
is based on this manuscript.
Other critical editions of the Bible, such as one currently being prepared in Stuttgart,
Germany, are based on a slightly newer manuscript held in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Considering that the nature of their work would be considered controversial, if not
offensive, by many religious people, it is perhaps surprising that most of the project's
scholars are themselves Orthodox Jews.
"A believing Jew claims that the source of the Bible is prophecy," said the project's
bearded academic secretary, Rafael Zer. "But as soon as the words are given to human
beings — with God's agreement, and at his initiative — the holiness of the biblical text
remains, even if mistakes are made when the text is passed on."
Copyright 2011 The Associated Press.
Link -->> Scholars seek to correct 'mistakes' in Bible - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com
See also - The Thread in this Forum:
TEXTUS RECEPTUS
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/30112-textus-receptus.html
TEXTUS RECEPTUS
Link -->> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/30112-textus-receptus.html