3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
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How can the Bible say the unsaved are slaves to sin, if you say they have free will?
Read John 8:33-36, Romans 6:6-7.
How can they be ensnared by the devil, if you say that they have free will?
Read 2 Tim 2: 25-26.
I am not going to spend time answering your questions if you are too lazy to look up the answers to one of your questions.
Come back and tell me how you can claim these individuals have free will if they are enslaved to Satan and sin. They are SLAVES and they need to be FREED.
You can say what you want about Reformed theology. It is coherent, and you are not.
I don't think it's that hard to understand, if you are not entangled in false teachings yourself and viewing Scripture through that lense.
If you think that unbelievers have libertarian free will, and can simply decide at any moment to give up their sins, I'm afraid you simply don't understand what grace is, and you don't understand that God needs to liberate the person before they can do ANYTHING.
And, you don't understand the Bible too well. Think about ancient Egypt. Did the Israelites simply waltz out of Egypt? NOOOO.
God had to liberate them. Until God liberated them, they were SLAVES. They weren't going anywhere.
Has anyone taught you that Israel's deliverance was typological of the deliverance of Christians?
See, this is the type of thing that free-willers don't even talk about. They will ridicule and spew venom at Reformed people, but they can't even reason through the shadows and types of the OT to understand the nature of salvation. Yet, they will mock and ridicule Reformed people, who are much more reasonable and can put the Scriptures together.
By the way, I have Reformed friends who are not too high as far as IQ goes, and they would be able to understand these points if I brought them up.
Read John 8:33-36, Romans 6:6-7.
How can they be ensnared by the devil, if you say that they have free will?
Read 2 Tim 2: 25-26.
I am not going to spend time answering your questions if you are too lazy to look up the answers to one of your questions.
Come back and tell me how you can claim these individuals have free will if they are enslaved to Satan and sin. They are SLAVES and they need to be FREED.
You can say what you want about Reformed theology. It is coherent, and you are not.
I don't think it's that hard to understand, if you are not entangled in false teachings yourself and viewing Scripture through that lense.
If you think that unbelievers have libertarian free will, and can simply decide at any moment to give up their sins, I'm afraid you simply don't understand what grace is, and you don't understand that God needs to liberate the person before they can do ANYTHING.
And, you don't understand the Bible too well. Think about ancient Egypt. Did the Israelites simply waltz out of Egypt? NOOOO.
God had to liberate them. Until God liberated them, they were SLAVES. They weren't going anywhere.
Has anyone taught you that Israel's deliverance was typological of the deliverance of Christians?
See, this is the type of thing that free-willers don't even talk about. They will ridicule and spew venom at Reformed people, but they can't even reason through the shadows and types of the OT to understand the nature of salvation. Yet, they will mock and ridicule Reformed people, who are much more reasonable and can put the Scriptures together.
By the way, I have Reformed friends who are not too high as far as IQ goes, and they would be able to understand these points if I brought them up.
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I think one of the problems is that our society is so biblically illiterate that they are simply unable to understand much beyond the bare basics of Christianity. It's very sad actually.
While you're adding to the list, why don't you admit that you yourself have made claims, such as Reformed theology being demonic, etcetera?
And, if anyone wants to bring up a lack of grace, ask yourself..if I go through your posts, will I find evidences of a lack of grace when dealing with others? Some freewillers have personally made disparaging remarks to me, including calling me, in essence, a fool.
Therefore, if you pronounce a standard, and apply it to Reformed people, am I going to be able to review your posts and find examples of insulting remarks to others? Ask yourself that question. I might just take the time to do it.
can i add to your list?
"you are misrepresenting the reformed position"
"you just dont understand"
"you are semi-pelagian"
"you are saving yourself"
"you dont give God all the glory you take some for yourself"
"are you just smarter than your neighbor for choosing Christ so you can boast in heaven"
"you worship free will"
"if God doesnt micromanage everything or decree everything He isnt really sovereign"
"it doesnt mean all men, it means all kinds of men"
and many more
"you are misrepresenting the reformed position"
"you just dont understand"
"you are semi-pelagian"
"you are saving yourself"
"you dont give God all the glory you take some for yourself"
"are you just smarter than your neighbor for choosing Christ so you can boast in heaven"
"you worship free will"
"if God doesnt micromanage everything or decree everything He isnt really sovereign"
"it doesnt mean all men, it means all kinds of men"
and many more
And, if anyone wants to bring up a lack of grace, ask yourself..if I go through your posts, will I find evidences of a lack of grace when dealing with others? Some freewillers have personally made disparaging remarks to me, including calling me, in essence, a fool.
Therefore, if you pronounce a standard, and apply it to Reformed people, am I going to be able to review your posts and find examples of insulting remarks to others? Ask yourself that question. I might just take the time to do it.
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No, it does not. In fact, Reformed theology teaches that regeneration must occur prior to faith and repentance. That is the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit. And, the Gospel accompanies conversion.
So, I am not sure where you are getting this from. Unless you are claiming that the specific point of total depravity doesn't include those elements. You can't look at just one spoke on a wheel and claim the one spoke is the whole wheel.
These are the kinds of nonsense claims being made here.
So, I am not sure where you are getting this from. Unless you are claiming that the specific point of total depravity doesn't include those elements. You can't look at just one spoke on a wheel and claim the one spoke is the whole wheel.
These are the kinds of nonsense claims being made here.
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1. As long as a person is unsaved, his or her sin nature is contro, and there is no new nature nor the indwelling Spirit to overcome the power of the sin nature. Thus "slaves to sin".
2. At the same time, the unsaved are not constantly and continually evil (totally depraved), and the existence of the conscience even gives them the desire to do righteous deeds. All human beings know right from wrong because of the conscience, and the Bible makes this clear.
3. What Calvinists ignore (or pervert) is the fact not no matter how evil a person is, the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit can bring him or her to Christ. And only then are they regenerated.
2. At the same time, the unsaved are not constantly and continually evil (totally depraved), and the existence of the conscience even gives them the desire to do righteous deeds. All human beings know right from wrong because of the conscience, and the Bible makes this clear.
3. What Calvinists ignore (or pervert) is the fact not no matter how evil a person is, the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit can bring him or her to Christ. And only then are they regenerated.
The results of original sin include the following:
This is essentially what total depravity is.
Go ahead. Refute them. Show me where the unsaved are not in spiritual darkness, are not spiritually dead and alienated from he life of God, do not hate God, are not hostile toward him and his law, are not slaves of sin, do not reflect the character of Satan, are not spiritually death and blind.
It seems like simply reading the Bible would lead to this conclusion, but apparently you haven't read the Bible very closely in the past.
- The unsaved live in spiritual darkness (Acts 26:18, Ephesians 4:17-18, Colossians 1:13)
- The unsaved are spiritually dead and alienated from the life of God(Ephesians 2:1-2, 4:17-18, 5:8, Colossians 2:13)
- The unsaved hate God, are hostile toward him and his law and are under his wrath (Romans 1:30, 5:9, 8:7, Ephesians 2:1-3, 5:6, Colossians 1:21)
- The unsaved are slaves to sin (John 8:34, Romans 6:20)
- The unsaved reflect the character of Satan, and as such reject God’s authority over their lives (John 8:43-44, I John 3:8-10)
- The unsaved are spiritually deaf and blind and cannot understand the gospel message without God’s direct intervention (Isaiah 6:10, Jeremiah 6:10, Ezekiel 12:2, Mark 4:9-12, Luke 8:10, John 8:47, Deuteronomy 29:4, Matthew 13:13-15, John 12:37-40, Acts 28:26-27, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
This is essentially what total depravity is.
Go ahead. Refute them. Show me where the unsaved are not in spiritual darkness, are not spiritually dead and alienated from he life of God, do not hate God, are not hostile toward him and his law, are not slaves of sin, do not reflect the character of Satan, are not spiritually death and blind.
It seems like simply reading the Bible would lead to this conclusion, but apparently you haven't read the Bible very closely in the past.
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1. agreed
2. yes, every thought of their heart is only evil. You should know the Scripture I'm taking that from..look it up. They don't have a desire to do good works.
3. No, they don't ignore this. It requires regeneration, though, and that is what brings the person to the point of faith and repentance.
You believe in decisional regeneration. I do not. I have explained the Scriptures that refer to faith and repentance as a gift.
A stony, cold heart cannot accept Christ. That is why the heart change needs to occur first.
2. yes, every thought of their heart is only evil. You should know the Scripture I'm taking that from..look it up. They don't have a desire to do good works.
3. No, they don't ignore this. It requires regeneration, though, and that is what brings the person to the point of faith and repentance.
You believe in decisional regeneration. I do not. I have explained the Scriptures that refer to faith and repentance as a gift.
A stony, cold heart cannot accept Christ. That is why the heart change needs to occur first.
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As I just explained, THAT IS TOTALLY FALSE and contrary to Scripture.
Now please note carefully, take it to heart, and believe that this is the Word of God (Acts 2:37,27):
CONVICTED BEFORE RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
REPENTANCE NECESSARY BEFORE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
AND REGENERATION FOLLOWS THE RECEIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (Tit 3:4-7)
Now please note carefully, take it to heart, and believe that this is the Word of God (Acts 2:37,27):
CONVICTED BEFORE RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
REPENTANCE NECESSARY BEFORE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
AND REGENERATION FOLLOWS THE RECEIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (Tit 3:4-7)
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we already know all these verses calvinist use, and got tons of bible commentaries available where you can see what people say. all agree on those verses. thats why the gospel came, so we hear it and believe it and are saved. And God wants all to be saved and to come to knowledge of truth.
He gave st.paul ministry of reconciliation for example.
He gave st.paul ministry of reconciliation for example.
Do you think all saved people have full and correct doctrine?
Does the Bible teach this?
Does Paul write letters to Christians who needed to be corrected on some point of doctrine?
Do babies turn into college age kids immediately upon birth?
I'm not even sure why you would respond to me with those questions.
Does the Bible teach this?
Does Paul write letters to Christians who needed to be corrected on some point of doctrine?
Do babies turn into college age kids immediately upon birth?
I'm not even sure why you would respond to me with those questions.
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you took that out of context. every thought evil yes its said in noah's times. its like that now too cause end time Jesus says as in days of noah.
second point is Nehemiah was right, look:
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
i thought it was impossible to do any good ?
second point is Nehemiah was right, look:
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
i thought it was impossible to do any good ?
You're right..that's where it's coming from:
Genesis 6:5 5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(ESV)
And, I don't think that any unsaved human is trying to do good now. They are idolaters and their lives don't revolve around a relationship with God. They cannot be good because their life doesn't revolve around God.
What does Romans 3 say about the state of all mankind?
You can't take Romans 2 and isolate it from Romans 3.
Romans 3:10-18 10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
(ESV)
In Romans 2, it also says this:
Romans 2:12-16 12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
(ESV)
Is any unbeliever doing good? Are there unbelievers who are trying to follow God's standards? I don't think so, given Romans 3.
Genesis 6:5 5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(ESV)
And, I don't think that any unsaved human is trying to do good now. They are idolaters and their lives don't revolve around a relationship with God. They cannot be good because their life doesn't revolve around God.
What does Romans 3 say about the state of all mankind?
You can't take Romans 2 and isolate it from Romans 3.
Romans 3:10-18 10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
(ESV)
In Romans 2, it also says this:
Romans 2:12-16 12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
(ESV)
Is any unbeliever doing good? Are there unbelievers who are trying to follow God's standards? I don't think so, given Romans 3.
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i never called it demonic btw thats false. i do agree that reformed theology is evil if taken to its conclusion that all evil falls on God. no matter amount of talk about secondary causes human sin and all that, its all caused by God cause God made them totally depraved in curse, made no way out unless He regenerates and doesnt even give chance to all. reformed gospel is horrible news to most people. hey john did u hear the gospel yet? odds are stacked against u, you most likely cant repent and believe and arent elect. enjoy hell
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