All Christians must die!!!

[4runner]

Romans 5:8-10

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Romans 10:8-10

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Ephesians 2:7-9

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I am not sure why you posted these scriptures? Were you trying to contradict or dismiss the command of Christ?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Talk about an impossible request, but God is able to make us able. Some people actually argue that Jesus didn't mean what He said. They say He never meant we should be perfect, but mature in the Lord. However Jesus clarifies His statement by saying ''even as the Father in Heaven is perfect''. So if what they say is true then that means the Father is not perfect, but simply mature. Also if we are fully mature in Christ the we would be perfect, for our perfection is in Christ. Jesus was, and still is commanding us to live perfectly before Him.

 

[lil_christian]

I am not sure why you posted these scriptures? Were you trying to contradict or dismiss the command of Christ?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Talk about an impossible request, but God is able to make us able. Some people actually argue that Jesus didn't mean what He said. They say He never meant we should be perfect, but mature in the Lord. However Jesus clarifies His statement by saying ''even as the Father in Heaven is perfect''. So if what they say is true then that means the Father is not perfect, but simply mature. Also if we are fully mature in Christ the we would be perfect, for our perfection is in Christ. Jesus was, and still is commanding us to live perfectly before Him.

I wasn't contradicting the command of Christ, I was giving you straight up Scripture that came from Paul himself.

Matthew 5:21-48 was talking about personal relationships, not perfection.

 

[lil_christian]

Matthew 5:21-48 (New American Standard Bible)


Personal Relationships

21 “You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be [guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. 23 Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. 25 Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent. 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
31 “It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’; 32 but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
33 “Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.’ 34 But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING. 36 Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39 But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41 Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[lil_christian]

I am not sure why you posted these scriptures? Were you trying to contradict or dismiss the command of Christ?

How can I contradict something Biblical with the Bible? I can't. So either your doctrine is out of line, or the Scripture is out of line.

And I can't contradict Scripture with Scripture, either...soo...something's out of context. Whether it's me or you, something's out of whack. But I'll tell you right now, I put more than one verse when I post Scripture. Because sometimes, just one verse out of a whole chapter usually doesn't give it enough to support what you're saying.

 

[Cobus]

How perfect is God? Was Jesus as perfect as God? Can we be perfect here on earth? When will a person be perfect? Is there something God does to a person to make him perfect? Do God actually make people perfect? Why would god make people perfect? We can ask a thousand questions, and the WHOLE world can disproof of this, but God will not come and EDIT on His word becasue the whole world lies in iniquity... God warned us that if the righteous BARELY makes it... And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

If this is not enough to make you take God more seriously, then well, I am glad I ONLY have to answer for myself! I trust God that becasue I SEEK him diligently in my WHOLE life, AFTER He put this HUNGER for righteousness in me, I trust God will FEED this hunger with His righteousness, and I will be saved.

I will NEVER be satidfed with sin in my life! NEVER!!!

 

[lil_christian]

How perfect is God? Was Jesus as perfect as God? Can we be perfect here on earth? When will a person be perfect? Is there something God does to a person to make him perfect? Do God actually make people perfect? Why would god make people perfect? We can ask a thousand questions, and the WHOLE world can disproof of this, but God will not come and EDIT on His word becasue the whole world lies in iniquity... God warned us that if the righteous BARELY makes it... And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

If this is not enough to make you take God more seriously, then well, I am glad I ONLY have to answer for myself! I trust God that becasue I SEEK him diligently in my WHOLE life, AFTER He put this HUNGER for righteousness in me, I trust God will FEED this hunger with His righteousness, and I will be saved.

I will NEVER be satidfed with sin in my life! NEVER!!!

We will never be sinless like Jesus. Sorry. To think we could be on the same level AS Jesus spiritually is blasphemy. Because if we could be on the same level as Him, then what's the purpose of Him being our Savior after we've reached that level? We wouldn't need saved anymore if that was the case.

If you aren't satisfied with sin in your life, then ok. Not saying you should, but, just because you seek God, doesn't mean you'll be sinless! I don't know how being Christlike means being sinless. And I don't get how seeking God can make you sinless either...

And you know what, since we've been pardoned for, and since Jesus covered our sins with His blood, God doesn't see our sins. He sees US. Us, and only us.

 

[GaryMac]

Amen the message in the cross is death to the flesh and resurrection of the Spirit man. Without that death to the flesh man, that Spirit man will never emerge, no matter how long one waits for the Christ to come, He will not until that death to self occurs. It is Christ in you who takes the place of self. Gods PSirit in you, you being that anointed one.

 

[AnandaHya]

I am not sure why you posted these scriptures? Were you trying to contradict or dismiss the command of Christ?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Talk about an impossible request, but God is able to make us able. Some people actually argue that Jesus didn't mean what He said. They say He never meant we should be perfect, but mature in the Lord. However Jesus clarifies His statement by saying ''even as the Father in Heaven is perfect''. So if what they say is true then that means the Father is not perfect, but simply mature. Also if we are fully mature in Christ the we would be perfect, for our perfection is in Christ. Jesus was, and still is commanding us to live perfectly before Him.

yeah and everyone with an ounce of truthfulness in them knows that it does not say to BE God in Heaven. therefore the attribute of perfection is not all inclusive of God's other attributes.

therefore no matter what you believe, Jesus is not telling people to BE Perfect as in EXACTLY LIKE JESUS as some claim.

Being Christ-like is NOT the same thing as Saying JESUS moves me around like a puppet, replacing my spirit with HIS so that I can PERFECTLY do things just like Jesus did.

Jesus' human spirit was the SAME as the HOLY SPIRIT, but our human spirit is NOT the same but is Guided and taught by the HOLY SPIRIT and we do the works God made and saved us for.

Jesus is the ONLY Begotten Son, we are just adopted into the family.

why are you even debating the topic? with your own words you say Maturity in Christ is the same thing as Perfection in Christ? " Also if we are fully mature in Christ the we would be perfect, for our perfection is in Christ. Jesus was, and still is commanding us to live perfectly before Him."

I don't agree but you can't be PERFECT like GOD in HEAVEN until you get HEAVENLY Glorified bodies, which doesn't happen till Christ returns.

 

[Cobus]

We will never be sinless like Jesus. Sorry. To think we could be on the same level AS Jesus spiritually is blasphemy. Because if we could be on the same level as Him, then what's the purpose of Him being our Savior after we've reached that level? We wouldn't need saved anymore if that was the case.

This verse tends to disagree with your thinking lil...Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


If you aren't satisfied with sin in your life, then ok. Not saying you should, but, just because you seek God, doesn't mean you'll be sinless! I don't know how being Christlike means being sinless. And I don't get how seeking God can make you sinless either...

This way lil.... And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
To preserve something blameless, it had to be MADE blameless, and that can only happen when it lived blameless (without sin)

And you know what, since we've been pardoned for, and since Jesus covered our sins with His blood, God doesn't see our sins. He sees US. Us, and only us.

God does not see sinners, they are dead already in their sin. God only see the righteous, becasue Jesus presented them to HIM ...
this way lil... That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Why are these people sinless and perfect becasue Jesus did this for them... He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
If Jesus destroy the work of Satan on me, I CANNOT SIN AGAIN! That is why I will soon be freed from sin!

 

[AnandaHya]

Matthew 5 talks about treating everyone with love even if they hate you, because God forgives and loves the world even though many in the world hate him and ridicule His son and His other children for telling them they are sinful and grieving the heart of God and hurting themselves and the world with their sin.

Matthew 5
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors[j] do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

 

[Cobus]

Nan what does this verse say to you? And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Please let us talk this one subject on how full of Jesus we are when we ARE SAVED and sactified in Christ, just how holy are we then. Is this level of holiness perfection.. So let us see how full of GOD we are when God COMPLETES us here on earth. NAN just thos subject between you and me, please! we can een sart a new threat and discuss this like two ADOPTED children, and let us praise Jesus, that HE will make us perfectly ONE in Him. We do not uderstand eachother... I am BAD with the english, but we will talk without distraction and I will share with you how I believe, and maybe God will unite us in Him! Let us see if we talk without other people distracting us, if we cannot come to an agreement, I think Jesus would LOVE it if we agree!

 

[GaryMac]

To say that God cannot deliver you from sin is to outright deny the one God sent who came to take away your sin, 1 John 3:5. In Christ there is no sin, it is outside Christ that you are a sinner. God sent an example for us to follow, to be like, to imitate, to walk as He walks, to have the same mind, same Spirit, if that is not possible for you then you follow a different God from Him. It is impossible to be in sin and be in Christ. 1 John 3:9

 

[AnandaHya]

God does not see sinners, they are dead already in their sin.

God still blesses them with the sun, water, food, etc and allows them to have breathe and a chance to repent and turn from their sin.

He admonishes His children to do the same.

Matthew 5:44-46
New King James Version (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[a] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

How ungrateful and uncharitiable to tell the lost that God does not see or love them.

 

[Cobus]

Garymac, welcome to CC and thank the Lord we have another Truth preacher here! Boy is the Lord busy with His Word around the World... AT LAST God is sending Truth out again to all people

 

[AnandaHya]

Nan what does this verse say to you? And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Please let us talk this one subject on how full of Jesus we are when we ARE SAVED and sactified in Christ, just how holy are we then. Is this level of holiness perfection.. So let us see how full of GOD we are when God COMPLETES us here on earth. NAN just thos subject between you and me, please! we can een sart a new threat and discuss this like two ADOPTED children, and let us praise Jesus, that HE will make us perfectly ONE in Him. We do not uderstand eachother... I am BAD with the english, but we will talk without distraction and I will share with you how I believe, and maybe God will unite us in Him! Let us see if we talk without other people distracting us, if we cannot come to an agreement, I think Jesus would LOVE it if we agree!

alright Cobus we can start a thread, perhaps it is the language barrier that is causing our misunderstanding.

so you are no longer claiming to be a seed of Satan as you did in your earlier posts on the forum, that is good. we still need to figure out this personal devil ZZZ thing.

 

[Cobus]

Nan God is patient and ALL sinners have a WAY out! Repent and be baptised!

 

[Cobus]

Nan let us go and soon we will see EYE to eye with Jesus Himself! Both you and I will be enriched becasue God is a rewarder of LOVE! You may start the thread ... Call it "Jesus in me"

 

[lil_christian]

To say that God cannot deliver you from sin is to outright deny the one God sent who came to take away your sin, 1 John 3:5. In Christ there is no sin, it is outside Christ that you are a sinner. God sent an example for us to follow, to be like, to imitate, to walk as He walks, to have the same mind, same Spirit, if that is not possible for you then you follow a different God from Him. It is impossible to be in sin and be in Christ. 1 John 3:9

1 John 1:8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

 

[lil_christian]

Our sins are cleansed, but that doesn't mean we won't sin again. We have to repent daily. We are to ask for forgiveness each and every day. And then live as if we have been forgiven. Like going out spreading the word, having peace of mind...not like doing whatever you want.

 

[lil_christian]

God does not see sinners, they are dead already in their sin. God only see the righteous, becasue Jesus presented them to HIM ...
this way lil... That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Why are these people sinless and perfect becasue Jesus did this for them... He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
If Jesus destroy the work of Satan on me, I CANNOT SIN AGAIN! That is why I will soon be freed from sin!

Wrong way, Cobus....