Oneness Petecostalism

[prophecyman]

Before anyone sets out to pounce this thread, it is imperative to understand that I am Oneness. Also I believe there is some misconcepts as to what we really believe, it is my hope to clear up any issues some of you may have in this regards.

1. I believe in One God... the Father
2. Who dwelt (lived) in his only begotten Son.
3. This explains how he was in the world and the world was made by him.
4. The Spirit was not given to him by measure, for all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him, refer to #2
5. Jesus as the Son and not God the Son was required to pray to the Father... Psalm 65:2 O' thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come. Jesus was flesh and blood, the Father is not.
6. God as the Holy Spirit is NOTanother person, for God is Spirit. John 4:24
7. John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak NOT of myself, but the Father that DWELLETH in me, He the Father doeth the works. This ties in nicely #'s1-6
8. Titus 2:13 We oneness Pentecostals look for according to scripture... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ.
9. The visble manifestation of the Son is the reflection of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
10. this ties in nicely with John 14:7 "If you had known me, you should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him and have seen him.


I know the great El-Olam the El-Shaddai in ha' Mashiach

 

[Avinu]

Before anyone sets out to pounce this thread, it is imperative to understand that I am Oneness. Also I believe there is some misconcepts as to what we really believe, it is my hope to clear up any issues some of you may have in this regards.

1. I believe in One God... the Father
2. Who dwelt (lived) in his only begotten Son.
3. This explains how he was in the world and the world was made by him.
4. The Spirit was not given to him by measure, for all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him, refer to #2
5. Jesus as the Son and not God the Son was required to pray to the Father... Psalm 65:2 O' thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come. Jesus was flesh and blood, the Father is not.
6. God as the Holy Spirit is NOTanother person, for God is Spirit. John 4:24
7. John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak NOT of myself, but the Father that DWELLETH in me, He the Father doeth the works. This ties in nicely #'s1-6
8. Titus 2:13 We oneness Pentecostals look for according to scripture... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ.
9. The visble manifestation of the Son is the reflection of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
10. this ties in nicely with John 14:7 "If you had known me, you should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him and have seen him.


I know the great El-Olam the El-Shaddai in ha' Mashiach

AMEN, I am in full compliance, and here's one more for you.

Deut. 6:4 Shma Yisrael, YHVH Elohenu, YHVH ECHAD! Hear O Israel, The LORD our GOD, the LORD is ONE.!

Good job.

 

[AtonedFor]

Okay, you guys, would you care to explain:
1) Why did Jesus pray constantly to His Father God?
2) Why are there several verses saying Jesus is "equal" to Father God?
3) Why are there several verses saying Father God created "all things" through Jesus?
... and many etc.

And, how are the Oneness Pentecostals doing evangelizing the world with signs and wonders following?
Any results? Please include links to websites, etc. Thanks.
.

 

[jb]

Before anyone sets out to pounce this thread, it is imperative to understand that I am Oneness. Also I believe there is some misconcepts as to what we really believe, it is my hope to clear up any issues some of you may have in this regards.

1. I believe in One God... the Father
2. Who dwelt (lived) in his only begotten Son.
3. This explains how he was in the world and the world was made by him.
4. The Spirit was not given to him by measure, for all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him, refer to #2
5. Jesus as the Son and not God the Son was required to pray to the Father... Psalm 65:2 O' thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come. Jesus was flesh and blood, the Father is not.
6. God as the Holy Spirit is NOTanother person, for God is Spirit. John 4:24
7. John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak NOT of myself, but the Father that DWELLETH in me, He the Father doeth the works. This ties in nicely #'s1-6
8. Titus 2:13 We oneness Pentecostals look for according to scripture... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ.
9. The visble manifestation of the Son is the reflection of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
10. this ties in nicely with John 14:7 "If you had known me, you should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him and have seen him.


I know the great El-Olam the El-Shaddai in ha' Mashiach

Deut. 6:4 Shma Yisrael, YHVH Elohenu, YHVH ECHAD! Hear O Israel, The LORD our GOD, the LORD is ONE.!

The word “one,” which here, and elsewhere, is used to speak of the unity of God, is, “echad” (Strong OT: 259), it is used in this instance of a compound unity of distinguishable entities. “Yachid” (Strong OT: 3173), is used to speak of a mathematical unity, it means, sole, unique, and one of a kind; it is never used of the unity of God.

The plurality of Persons in the Godhead is clearly and fully revealed in both the Old Testament and New Testament...

Doesn't really matter how you try to explain 'Oneness' it is still the 'Error of Sabellius' (Modalistic Sebellianism)...

 

[resurrection33]

Before anyone sets out to pounce this thread, it is imperative to understand that I am Oneness. Also I believe there is some misconcepts as to what we really believe, it is my hope to clear up any issues some of you may have in this regards.

1. I believe in One God... the Father
2. Who dwelt (lived) in his only begotten Son.
3. This explains how he was in the world and the world was made by him.
4. The Spirit was not given to him by measure, for all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him, refer to #2
5. Jesus as the Son and not God the Son was required to pray to the Father... Psalm 65:2 O' thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come. Jesus was flesh and blood, the Father is not.
6. God as the Holy Spirit is NOTanother person, for God is Spirit. John 4:24
7. John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak NOT of myself, but the Father that DWELLETH in me, He the Father doeth the works. This ties in nicely #'s1-6
8. Titus 2:13 We oneness Pentecostals look for according to scripture... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ.
9. The visble manifestation of the Son is the reflection of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
10. this ties in nicely with John 14:7 "If you had known me, you should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him and have seen him.


I know the great El-Olam the El-Shaddai in ha' Mashiach

I believe in one God who is simultaneously the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, just as a man can simultaneously be a husband, son, and father.

 

[theBibleisawsome]

Okay, you guys, would you care to explain:
1) Why did Jesus pray constantly to His Father God?
2) Why are there several verses saying Jesus is "equal" to Father God?
3) Why are there several verses saying Father God created "all things" through Jesus?
... and many etc.

And, how are the Oneness Pentecostals doing evangelizing the world with signs and wonders following?
Any results? Please include links to websites, etc. Thanks.
.

If Jesus wasn't the Father how come when Phillip asked him to show the Father Jesus gave a answer indicating he was the Father.he told him have I been so long time with u n u still don't know me.he who has seen me has seen the Father.He is not talking about in unity.if Jesus wasn't the Father he wouldn't have said has he been so long time with Phillip, if he and the Father were separate from each other he had the perfect opportunity to say that right there.But he did not he never said my Father is in heaven or my Father is elsewhere I can't show u him. He never said that.he said have I been so long time with u n yet u still don't know me Phillip he that seen me has seen the Father.He is saying he is the Father. This verse isn't talking about unity.God bless u.

 

[prophecyman]

The plurality of Persons in the Godhead is clearly and fully revealed in both the Old Testament and New Testament...

Doesn't really matter how you try to explain 'Oneness' it is still the 'Error of Sabellius' (Modalistic Sebellianism)...

The difinition of person requires humanity, the Spirit of God can not be classified as human.

Theological terms such as Truine, Trinity, hypotasis, subtance of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost can not be found anywhere in the Torah (teachings) or in the New Covenant.

When the little ones were shouting " Hosanna in the highest, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" What they were actually saying was... Blessed is he who comes in the power and authority of God.

There are forms of Modalism that I do not ascribe to, such as Salbeius. There are forms and explainations of the trinity, all of which I can not find direct support, no matter of the nuances of Hebrew or Greek.

It is evident that no man can know the things of God save the Spirit of God, for they are spiritually discerned. It is further evidenced that God can only be revealed by Yeshua, and whomsoever he ordains/elects to know him.

 

[prophecyman]

Okay, you guys, would you care to explain:
1) Why did Jesus pray constantly to His Father God?
2) Why are there several verses saying Jesus is "equal" to Father God?
3) Why are there several verses saying Father God created "all things" through Jesus?
... and many etc.

And, how are the Oneness Pentecostals doing evangelizing the world with signs and wonders following?
Any results? Please include links to websites, etc. Thanks.
.

In answer to question #1 It was made clear that the old testament scripture of Psalm 65:2 that all flesh shall come and pray, Jesus was a flesh and blood man.

question #2 is answered after the following, 'He did not consider it robbery to be equal to God', because all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him, the only God you will ever see is in the face of Jesus Christ. There is one throne in heaven not three. The Lamb stood in the midst of the Throne!!!

Question #3 is best answered by explaining the eternal nature as encompassing all time, he can not be held to any specific time period, for he lives in past,present and future concurently. He created all things by Jesus the Word, who is also described as the Word of God in the book of Revelation. The Father does not look on time as you do, Jesus Christ is the first and the last as he said in Revelation. Through the prophet Isaiah, the Lord said that he was the first and the last. The Father said that there was none other, that is a just God and Savior. There can only be one Savior, one first and last, one God who is before all, and in all that are born of the water and the Spirit, baptized in the Holy Spirit by Yeshua himself.

Answer to question #4

We have Missionarys in 192 countries, and Churches all over the world. BTW, I don't like the term Church... its so Catholic, but I rather call the elect "The Assembly of the Lord".

 

[Shwagga]

Before anyone sets out to pounce this thread, it is imperative to understand that I am Oneness. Also I believe there is some misconcepts as to what we really believe, it is my hope to clear up any issues some of you may have in this regards.

1. I believe in One God... the Father
2. Who dwelt (lived) in his only begotten Son.
3. This explains how he was in the world and the world was made by him.
4. The Spirit was not given to him by measure, for all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him, refer to #2
5. Jesus as the Son and not God the Son was required to pray to the Father... Psalm 65:2 O' thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come. Jesus was flesh and blood, the Father is not.
6. God as the Holy Spirit is NOTanother person, for God is Spirit. John 4:24
7. John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak NOT of myself, but the Father that DWELLETH in me, He the Father doeth the works. This ties in nicely #'s1-6
8. Titus 2:13 We oneness Pentecostals look for according to scripture... Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ.
9. The visble manifestation of the Son is the reflection of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
10. this ties in nicely with John 14:7 "If you had known me, you should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him and have seen him.


I know the great El-Olam the El-Shaddai in ha' Mashiach

I'm curious to know how you interpret John 17:5;

"Now Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

Please pay close attention to the pronouns and the use of the verb "glorify" in this verse. Along with your interpretation of the verse, please tell me who shared the glory was shared with before the creation of the world?

Thank you, I look forward to dialoging with you.

 

[Trax]

Before anyone sets out to pounce this thread, it is imperative to understand that I am Oneness. Also I believe there is some misconcepts as to what we really believe, it is my hope to clear up any issues some of you may have in this regards.

1. I believe in One God... the Father
2. Who dwelt (lived) in his only begotten Son.

How can a God fairly judge anyone, since He never lived as a human?? You might say, well,
all judgement was given to Jesus. How can a man judge in righteousness if he isn't God?

 

[mpaper345]

I believe that there is one God,the Father,for the Bible says there is one God,the Father.

The Bible says that the Son shall be called The everlasting Father,because there is only one deity,the Father.

Jesus said when He resurrects to heaven,do not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus said,when He resurrects to heaven ask Him.
The disciples would no longer ask the man Christ Jesus to intercede for them,but would go to Jesus as God.

The Bible says,that the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to God,even the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus will present the kingdom to Himself.
Jesus is fully God and fully man,and the Bible says,to wit,God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself,which God reconciled sinful mankind back to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,fully God and fully man in harmony,and that is how Jesus as a man can present the kingdom to Himself as God.

In the Old Testament,God the Father said,He would reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them,which God was manifest in the flesh,and spoke to the Jews by His humanity,which Jesus said,if you have seen Me you have seen the Father,and it is the Father that dwells in Me He does the works.

Jesus said,He came in His Father's name,declared the Father's name,and manifested the Father's name,and the Father said,He would reveal His new name to the Jews.

The Bible says the Son inherited the name of the Father.

The prophet Agur asked the question,what is His name and what is His son's name,if you can tell,meaning the Father and Son would share the same name,which Jesus is fully God and fully man,so Jesus is the name of both the Father and Son,the man Christ Jesus.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

So it appears that the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,is Jesus,which Jesus created all things,walked the earth in flesh,and dwells in the saints.

So it seems like Jesus is telling us that He is the one true God,and His name is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,so we will not make a trinity out of the titles of God.

Which then appears that Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,are not 3 persons of a trinity,but the 3 relationships that God has with His children designated by titles.

Father-parent of the saints.

Son-God's visible relationship with the saints.

Holy Ghost-God's invisible relationship with the saints.

So it appears that there is only one God,a Holy Spirit,and Father is a title for God the Holy Spirit,and the Son,is the man Christ Jesus.

So it appears there is only one God,a Holy Spirit,and that is why the Spirit moved upon the face of the deep in creation,and the Spirit gave conception in the womb of Mary,and the Spirit dwells in the saints.

I only see one God in the Bible,with no distinction of persons,which God said,Is there a God beside Me,yea,there is no God,I know not any,and before Me there was no God formed,neither shall there be after Me.

The Son does not exist eternally but has His start in the womb of Mary,which the Bible says,when the fulness of the time was come,God sent forth His Son,made of a woman,made under the law,but as God has no beginning,which the Bible says,that when the Son comes,He will be from everlasting to everlasting,and that is because He is fully God and fully man.

There is only one God,the Father,and I cannot see a trinity in the Bible,and any passage of scripture that people think they can use to show a trinity,can be explained to show oneness.

God's Spirit cannot fit in a human body,so when the Bible says,God was manifest in the flesh,it means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus.

 

[Trax]

Before anyone sets out to pounce this thread, it is imperative to understand that I am Oneness. Also I believe there is some misconcepts as to what we really believe, it is my hope to clear up any issues some of you may have in this regards.

1. I believe in One God... the Father
2. Who dwelt (lived) in his only begotten Son.

Jesus claimed to be God. One just can't accept Him then change what He claimed.
That is a false witness and God considers false witnesses an abomination. (Prov 6:16-19).
Jesus said, why do you call me Good, only God is good, then said He was the "Good" Shepherd.
(Psalm 23). Before Abraham was, I am. In the beginning was the word and it was with God and
it was God, and the word became flesh. To say Jesus isn't God in the flesh is calling Jesus
a liar.

Mat 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Why would Jesus claim to not have known them? Because they never knew Him. These people
thought they were saved. They brought the Lord down from His glory and deity and then spread
the belief to the world. If Jesus isn't God in the flesh, then the whole book
of John is wrong and shouldn't be in the Bible and all that John wrote, even the Book of Rev
is false doctrine. This is a serious condition to be in, when one has to stand before the Lord
and answer why.

The reason people get into this false doctrine is they are using "flesh and blood", their own
brains to figure out who Jesus is. Jesus said it don't work like that. (Matt 16:17) Knowledge
of who Jesus is, comes from God the Father, who said, "This is my beloved Son" (Matt 3:17).
The Son is Like the Father, and that is deity, and there is only one God. Who else has God said
to, "This is my beloved Son?" (Heb 1:5) The answer: No one. Each child born has properties
of the mother and father. Jesus, fully human and fully God. Mary His mother gave birth the
the child, which is the word becoming flesh. Jesus has the deity of God the Father, and there
can be only one God. If Jesus isn't God, in the flesh, then half the NT is false doctrine.

Does not the story of Abraham being told to sacrifice his son, mean anything? It is a picture
of what God would do. Abraham called the place Jehovahjireh, which mean Jehovah will see to
it. Jesus Jehovah is pictured there. It wasn't Issac, it was the ram caught in the thicket (Gen 22:13). Jesus the lamb of God. The ram with his horns caught in the thicket. Horns are a
symbol of power and kingship. Jesus, with a crown of thorns on His head, was crucified
with the sign, "King of the Jews." Jesus said you search scriptures for in them you think you
have life, but they point to Me. He didn't say point to God or to the Father, but to "Me."
(John 5:38-40)

 

[cfultz3]

I'm curious to know how you interpret John 17:5;

"Now Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

Please pay close attention to the pronouns and the use of the verb "glorify" in this verse. Along with your interpretation of the verse, please tell me who shared the glory was shared with before the creation of the world?

Thank you, I look forward to dialoging with you.

Absolutely, it was the Word who became flesh. And who was the Word if not "The Word of the LORD" of the OT? Is He not then the "God said" of the OT? He, the Word, was there before creation and through whom God the Father made the ages. So, indeed, it is the eternal Word which speaks these words before returning to His former state of having the same glory as the Father has, seeing that the Word is God. The Word never ceased to be God when He took upon Himself flesh, but took upon Himself the title Son, as God the Father did take upon Himself the title Father, but yet never ceased to be God.

 

[SantoSubito]

Absolutely, it was the Word who became flesh. And who was the Word if not "The Word of the LORD" of the OT? Is He not then the "God said" of the OT? He, the Word, was there before creation and through whom God the Father made the ages. So, indeed, it is the eternal Word which speaks these words before returning to His former state of having the same glory as the Father has, seeing that the Word is God. The Word never ceased to be God when He took upon Himself flesh, but took upon Himself the title Son, as God the Father did take upon Himself the title Father, but yet never ceased to be God.

This is still a form of Modalism, which I can never accept, Sabellius put forth the same idea in 220 AD and the Church rejected it for good reason.

 

[Bushido8000]

Okay, you guys, would you care to explain:
1) Why did Jesus pray constantly to His Father God?
2) Why are there several verses saying Jesus is "equal" to Father God?
3) Why are there several verses saying Father God created "all things" through Jesus?
... and many etc.

And, how are the Oneness Pentecostals doing evangelizing the world with signs and wonders following?
Any results? Please include links to websites, etc. Thanks.
.

Interested in knowing what those several verses are for your #2 question since I've got ones where Jesus pretty much says that he is pretty much powerless without the Father and that the Father is greater than him.

 

[AtonedFor]

If Jesus wasn't the Father how come when Phillip asked him to show the Father
Jesus gave a answer indicating he was the Father. he told him have I been so long time
with u n u still don't know me. he who has seen me has seen the Father.
He is not talking about in unity ... This verse isn't talking about unity.

Yes, you are correct ... many verses talk about the "exact sameness" of the Two Manifestations of God:
2 Corinthians 4:4 --- “Christ, who is the image of God”
Hebrews 1:3 ---------- “His Son … the express image of His person”
Philippians 2:6 ------ “Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God”
Colossians 1:15 ----- “He is the image of the invisible God”
Colossians 1:19 ----- “For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell”
Colossians 2:9 ------ “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily”
John 14:9 ------------- “He who has seen Me has seen the Father”

And there are other verses talking about Jesus being "equal to" Father God. Wanna see 'em?
.

 

[AtonedFor]

Interested in knowing what those several verses are for your #2 question
since I've got ones where Jesus pretty much says that he is pretty much powerless
without the Father and that the Father is greater than him.

Verses which say that Jesus was/is "equal" to Father God.
John 5:18 ----- “He … said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.”
John 5:23 ----- “all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.”
John 10:30 --- “I and My Father are one.”
John 10:33 --- “blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
John 10:38 --- “the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”
John 14:9 ----- “He who has seen Me has seen the Father”
John 17:22 --- “We are one”

John 14:28 --- “for My Father is greater than I.”
While Jesus was on the earth … not only was He humble, but He felt lesser than Father God in heaven.
Why? Because He actually was; He was limited by His human body.
And the gospel says the Holy Spirit was present to perform the miracles!

Another way to look at this is:
Jesus was demonstrating HOW we should live our lives,
i.e. pray to the Father for guidance ... what to say and do, where to go, etc.
ask for and trust that the Holy Spirit will perform mighty miracles, etc.
.

 

[cfultz3]

This is still a form of Modalism, which I can never accept, Sabellius put forth the same idea in 220 AD and the Church rejected it for good reason.

I do not know much about "isms", but this I do, what you take as me explaining to be an "ism" is, in fact, literally taken from the Bible. Allow me, without editing anything except to insert biblical confirmation, to repost my last post with those insertions in paranthesis:

Absolutely, it was the Word who became flesh (Jon 1:14). And who was the Word if not "The Word of the LORD" of the OT (Rev 19:13)? Is He not then the "God said" of the OT (search: The Word of the LORD said)? He, the Word, was there before creation (Joh 1:1) and through whom God the Father made the ages (Psa 33:6, 1Jn 1:3). So, indeed, it is the eternal (Joh 8:58) Word which speaks these words (seeing that Jesus was the Word incarnated) before returning to His former state of having the same glory (Heb 1:3) as the Father (1Jn 5:7) has, seeing that the Word is God (seeing that they are One (1 Jn 5:7)). The Word never ceased to be God (the Word was God (1Jh 1:1)) when He took upon Himself flesh, but took upon Himself the title Son, as God the Father did take upon Himself the title Father (2 Sa 7:14, 1Ch 17:13, 28:6, Heb 1:5, note the future tense), but yet never ceased to be God.

 

[Bushido8000]

Another way to look at this is:
Jesus was demonstrating HOW we should live our lives,
i.e. pray to the Father for guidance ... what to say and do, where to go, etc.
ask for and trust that the Holy Spirit will perform mighty miracles

Thanks for the verses I only quoted this part ^ of your response cause I have a question about it.

Since Jesus seems to try bringing everyone toward his Father, having them pray to and worship his Father. Why is it that many churches seem to worship Jesus and kind of just toss the Father aside? Or worship/mention Jesus more? This has always confused me.

I ask this because I'm a nontrinitarian (I think this question would be relevant even if I did believe in a trinity) but believe that Jesus is God's Son (not God Himself though) and every church I seem to go to is all about Jesus and rarely mentions the Father. Is this ok? Why or why not?

 

[cfultz3]

I went and search for the meaning of "modalism" and found it to be this: Modalism is a non-Trinitarian heresy claiming that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are simply different modes of God and not distinct persons within the Godhead.

If I gave you the impression that there are not three in the Godhead, then I did not express my thoughts correctly, although I did mention God the Father and God the Word in my post. There is three in the Godhead. 1) God the Father, 2) God the Word, 3) God the Holy Spirit. To me, when I only say "God", I am speaking of the Godhead, perhaps that is where you misunderstand me?