Israel

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Graybeard

Guest
#41
the fact is there is nothing to work out...the land of Israel was given to Israel and no one else by Almighty God Himself, He has declared that Jerusalem belongs to Israel...period. Like it or not that is the decision of the God we believe in and proclaim to follow...accept it, who are we to question His wisdom/actions?? God is not a democratic God so politics are null and void here....just remember what is written..."His ways are not our ways".....DEAL WITH IT.
 
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#42
Palestinians are worshippers of a false God, they are used by Satan.

To go back to the beginning, when Satan got Eve to accept knowledge of sin, the felt he won the first battle with God. But God promised a seed (Christ) through the woman who would defeat Satan.

God chose Jews to carry the seed. He could have chosen any, but it so happened that he created Hebrews for this starting with the man Abraham. The seed was Christ. Satan has tried to get rid of the Jews ever since to stop Christ. After Satan failed to stop Christ from coming, Satan is now trying to see He will not return again for the final battle. If the Hebrew race is eliminated, Satan feels, Christ cannot come again for he is of the Hebrew race and scripture ties Jerusalem in with this event.

Satan tried this by getting Hebrews to assimilate with other races. Some of the Hebrew tribes are lost through this.

Satan has tried over and over to get the world to kill all Jews. He used Constantine to outlaw Judaism. He used Catholic councils for agendas against them. He got many to kill them through the phrase “Christ Killers”. He had them put in ghettos so they could be gotten rid of easier. He was behind the holocaust.

Satan is using the Palestinians in his battle to defeat God by stopping the return of our Savior. To do this Satan needs to rid the world of Jews and prevent their return to the land God gave them.
 

Spartacus1122

Banned [Reason: insulting CC admin in previous pos
Jun 9, 2012
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#43
The saddest thing is, our fellow Christians, particularly those on the Gaza Strip, are being ignored by the world, forgotten and gradually escaping from holy ground that belongs to us too.

A Christian exodus is in the works, and the world sits on the sidelines. :(
 
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edward99

Guest
#44
Palestinians are worshippers of a false God, they are used by Satan.

To go back to the beginning, when Satan got Eve to accept knowledge of sin, the felt he won the first battle with God. But God promised a seed (Christ) through the woman who would defeat Satan.

God chose Jews to carry the seed. He could have chosen any, but it so happened that he created Hebrews for this starting with the man Abraham. The seed was Christ. Satan has tried to get rid of the Jews ever since to stop Christ. After Satan failed to stop Christ from coming, Satan is now trying to see He will not return again for the final battle. If the Hebrew race is eliminated, Satan feels, Christ cannot come again for he is of the Hebrew race and scripture ties Jerusalem in with this event.

Satan tried this by getting Hebrews to assimilate with other races. Some of the Hebrew tribes are lost through this.

Satan has tried over and over to get the world to kill all Jews. He used Constantine to outlaw Judaism. He used Catholic councils for agendas against them. He got many to kill them through the phrase “Christ Killers”. He had them put in ghettos so they could be gotten rid of easier. He was behind the holocaust.

Satan is using the Palestinians in his battle to defeat God by stopping the return of our Savior. To do this Satan needs to rid the world of Jews and prevent their return to the land God gave them.
This is so bad, I'm speechless.
ugh.
 
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edward99

Guest
#45
The saddest thing is, our fellow Christians, particularly those on the Gaza Strip, are being ignored by the world, forgotten and gradually escaping from holy ground that belongs to us too.

A Christian exodus is in the works, and the world sits on the sidelines. :(
I would hit LIKE on this except...

Hebrews 13:14
For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

But I like the gist of it.



According to many on our side of the planet:

Christians in the region apparently deserve what they get for even being over there or, alternatively "what? you mean there are christians over there?"
And Palestinians are "a made-up people" according to "Newt".
Who appeared out of nowhere to hassle people who say they are Biblical Hebrews.
And Judaism isn't occult paganism.
 
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#47
Funny how no one answered this one.
Yes they can and do, as long as with any who live there, abide by the laws of the country.
I reciently saw a documentry showing how muslims, christians, Jewish, and many other faiths live peacefully there.
Some how this fact is rarely published.

God bless
pickles
It is my wish that you are right, Pickles. There are too many prideful people who want to hate the Israelis or hate the Palestinians.
 
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#48
from what I understand is that they claim to believe in the same God, that is God the Father, yet the God of Israel differs to the God in the Koran......
I am not so sure of this.
 
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#49
As long as Israel continues to be a Jewish theocracy, disputed by Muslim fundamentalists, there will never be peace.
I’ve never heard of Israel being called a theocracy before.

I’ve heard it said by some that Palestinians have equal rights, while others say they do not.

I’m not sure there will ever be peace in that part of the world, but if not, I suspect it is only because of their pride.
 
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#50
the fact is there is nothing to work out...the land of Israel was given to Israel and no one else by Almighty God Himself, He has declared that Jerusalem belongs to Israel...period. Like it or not that is the decision of the God we believe in and proclaim to follow...accept it, who are we to question His wisdom/actions?? God is not a democratic God so politics are null and void here....just remember what is written..."His ways are not our ways".....DEAL WITH IT.
I know part of the land was given to the Jews. There was a passage where the Lord told someone the Jews would possess the land for as far as he could see. I’m not sure, though, how far he could see from the mountain he was standing on.

What do you do to the Palestinians who were born there? Throw them out? Jesus told us not to treat people that way.
 
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edward99

Guest
#51
I am not so sure of this.
Neither of the 2 groups (jews /muslims) worships the True God:

1 John 2:23
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
 
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edward99

Guest
#52
I’ve never heard of Israel being called a theocracy before.

I’ve heard it said by some that Palestinians have equal rights, while others say they do not.

I’m not sure there will ever be peace in that part of the world, but if not, I suspect it is only because of their pride.
Well, it's actually because they reject Christ.
They both need the Gospel, not peace plans or weapons.
 
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#53
Neither of the 2 groups (jews /muslims) worships the True God:

1 John 2:23
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
I think Jesus is God in flesh. If you believe in God, perhaps you believe in Jesus without knowing it.
 
T

texian

Guest
#55
The New Testament thread of Paul in Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8. Galatians 4:25-26, Galatians 3: 16-29, and Galatians 6: 16 is very important in understanding the transformation of physical Israel into that spiritual house I Peter 2: 5-9 talks about. That part of physical Israel which rejected Jesus Christ is not the spiritual house Peter describes, and is not now the chosen people of God. Read I Peter 2: 5-9.

These texts are contradicted and lost under Christian Zionism which teaches that God now has two separate and different peoples, the church as a Body of Christ and All Israel, meaning all physical Israel, which is still the chosen people based on race. What Paul says is that race as a way of getting into the kingdom of God was done away with and entry is no longer by having the physical bloodline from Abraham, but that the seed, spiritually and physically, from Abraham is Jesus Christ. All who are in Christ are the spiritual seed of Abraham. So then, as Paul says in Romans 2: 28-29 the true Jew is no longer one who can boast of being a descendant from Abraham, but the true Jew is one who is a Jew inwardly, who has a circumcision of the heart and is in the Spirit.

Peter in I Peter 2: 5-9, confirms what Paul was teaching and talks about Christians being a spiritual house, a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people. John, the only Apostle who lived into old age, maybe into his nineties, also supports Paul in verses in the early chapters of the Book of Revelation, especially Revelation 2: 9, "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, but are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan." This is in agreement with Romans 2; 28-29, and adds that Jews who boast of their physical lineage and their identity as the chosen people blaspheme.

The restoration or really the transformation of physical Israel mired in the physical of racism as the descent from Abraham, circumcision, the literal temple building and all the shadows that point to Christ and the New Covenant begins in II Kings 21: 13, saying that God will stretch the plummet line over Jerusalem, meaning he will judge Israel, and will wipe Jerusalem, or Israel, like wiping a dish clean, and will turn Jerusalem, or old Israel upside down.

Then Isaiah 29: 16 picks up on this idea of turning old Israel upside down and in talking about it being esteemed as the potter's clay, points to Jeremiah 18:1-6, the parable of the potter who makes a pot on his wheel which is marred, and then puts that same lump of clay back on his potter's wheel and makes a new vessel out of the same lump which ios seen as pleasing to the potter who is God. A potter can take a still wet pot he has just thrown on the wheel, mix it with dry powdered clay, put it back on the table and knead it, then put it on the wheel and make an entirely different pot. I have done this when I was a potter.

The Christian Zionists in their claim that physical Israel will all be saved sometime in the future use Amos 9: 11 as a proof text that God will turn again to the Jews to deal with them and save all of them. But they extract that one verse out of the verses from 9: 8-11, saying that God will judge old Israel, such that verse 11 is about the restoration or transformation of Israel in Jesus Christ.

Then the Christian Zionists fail to understand the parable of the vineyard in that important chapter in Luke, Luke 13. In the parable the Father says to cut down the fig tree which is old Israel because it is bearing no fruit. But the Son as the dresser of the vineyard asks the Father to let him dig about and dung it, and if it then bears no fruit to cut it down.

Christ pruned down old Israel in transforming it from a physical house into a spiritual house. In Acts 2: 41 about three thousand Jews were converted into spiritual Israel and in Acts 4: 4 about five thousand believed. But these groups and all who accepted Christ and began to give up their bondage to the shadows of the Old Covenant and give up Talmudic Judaism, the religion of the Pharisees, were a Remnant, the Remnant of Israel. Those of Old Israel who rejected Christ are said to be cut off in Romans 11: 17

Paul's teachings in Romans 2; 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8 and Galatians 3: 16-29, Galatians 4: 25-26 form the background for understanding his cryptic sayings in Romans 11: 26 (and so all Israel shall be saved) and talking about the Israel of God in Galatians 6; 16.

In Romans 11: 16 he is almost making a play on words. Since all who are saved are Israel, that is, all who are saved have their identity in Christ in Israel (because he came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel), then all Israel shall be saved. Its not a prophecy for a future salvation of all Jews. The traditional Calvinists had some understanding of this.

In Galatians 6: 16 when Paul talks about the Israel of God, what he is doing is pointing out that there is a spiritual Israel called a spiritual house by Peter in I Peter Chapter 2 which is the Israel of God. In accordance with Romans 9: 8, the physical descendants from Abraham who rejected Christ are not the children of God, therefore they are not the Israel of God. What he means is that saved people of any race are the Israel which is of God as opposed to that Israel which is not of God. Those of physical Israel and their surrogates or proxies, the Christian Zionists, do not understand or accept Paul's teachings I have mentioned, especially that Israel was translated into a spiritual house and those who rejected Christ are not part of that house.

Galatians 6: 16 - the phrase "ton Israel tou Theon" - or "the Israel of God," has the Greek article before Israel and tau, or "of", after Israel. Those who know and understand what Paul said in Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8, and Galatians 4: 25-26 recognize that Paul is indicating by the article in front of Israel and "of" God after it, is not using "Israel" in the sense of physical Israel, which he usually means by "Israel." For example, in Romans 11: 7, Paul means by Israel physical Israel, "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."

There is still another text by Paul which supports his teachings in Romans and Galatians on the difference between physical Isreael which rejected Christ and the Israel of God. Its Ephesians 2: 11-13, "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

This text does not spoon feed those who are followers of the theologies which hold that physical Israel, or All Israel, even now remain the chosen people of God. What Paul is saying, though, is that Gentiles who were once alienated from the commonwealth of Israel became part of Israel through the blood of Christ. The capital C Catholic Church did not replace physical Israel, and the diepsnationalist capital C church, following the Catholics in this, is, as the ekklesia, or meeting, congregation or assembly, not a Body of Christ. Rather, physical Israel was transformed as Jeremiah's parable of the potter (18: 1-6) shows. Israel was changed in Christ, but it is still Israel, and those who call themselves Israel, but who reject Christ are not the Israel of God, but as Revelation 2: 9 says, may blaspheme in claiming to be the Israel of God.

There is one fold in Christ, as John 10: 16 says, not two folds belonging to Christ.
 
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edward99

Guest
#56
Good post Texian.




"And so all Israel will be saved"

Romans 11
1I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

3“Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.”

4But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.




A remnant according to God's Gracious choice: “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

And in the same way then: there has also come to be at the present time (Paul's time) a remnant according to God’s gracious choice saved

And so all Israel will be saved = In the same way then, a remnant according to God’s gracious choice is saved, all Israel will be saved.
 
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Philos

Guest
#57
I think Jesus is God in flesh. If you believe in God, perhaps you believe in Jesus without knowing it.
I'd like to respond that that's wrong resurrection. You can't even believe in Jesus unless you believe who He is, Unless you believe I am He, you will die in your sins. They don't believe Jesus is He, so they don't believe in Him, they don't have the Son and therefore don't have the Father. If they knew Jesus, would they persecute His people? God has rejected the people of Israel for their unbelief, and He has never received the Islamic society because their faith is erred.
 
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#58
I'd like to respond that that's wrong resurrection. You can't even believe in Jesus unless you believe who He is, Unless you believe I am He, you will die in your sins. They don't believe Jesus is He, so they don't believe in Him, they don't have the Son and therefore don't have the Father. If they knew Jesus, would they persecute His people? God has rejected the people of Israel for their unbelief, and He has never received the Islamic society because their faith is erred.
But it doesn’t seem likely to me that all the Jews are going to hell.

What seems more likely is that all who obey the two great commandments (that we love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves) will do well.

Remember that Jesus was not talking about himself as he preached, but of our Father in heaven. If we love our Father in heaven (and our neighbor), don’t you suppose we’ve satisfied the Lord? He’s not asking us to jump through hoops. He’s only telling us what we need to know.
 
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Philos

Guest
#59
But no one can come to the Father but by Him. You cannot love the Father but at the same time curse His Messiah, which the Jews do, nor deny Him as the Son which the Muslims do.
 
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#60
But no one can come to the Father but by Him. You cannot love the Father but at the same time curse His Messiah, which the Jews do, nor deny Him as the Son which the Muslims do.
I’m not aware that the Jews curse the Messiah. Aren’t they still looking for him?

I think Jesus is God in flesh. If you worship God, without knowing that Jesus is God in flesh, are you evil?