Examination of the NASB corruption of Colossians 1:24

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GRA

Guest
#1
Another of our "jobs" as believers is to complete the sufferings of Christ.
Are you sure you didn't mean to use a different word?

All that Christ did, He completed Himself. He did not leave anything for us to finish or make complete. He did it all - for us - "all by Himself"...

("All of His work was finished and completed at His resurrection.")
Perhaps you were referring to the idea conveyed by this verse???:

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. ~ 2 Timothy 3:12
LOL! Good catch, Gary. My muddled brain was confusing the wording of Col. 1:24, which, in I don't know what translation my one Gram taught me as " I undergo whatever is needed to make the sorrows of Christ complete..." And my other Gram taught ...: filling up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ...". How blessed I was to have 2 such grandmothers...it was my own poor cognitive abilities at fault. Not to mention my laziness! I should have gotten my Bible.

Thanks for that insightful correction. In my Bible the verse reads,

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.

And you know I didn't mean job, right. It's a privilege.
No offense, Ellie - but, you have a corrupted bible version...

("That verse is just full of error.")

Give me a little time - and I will follow up this post with another explaining why I say this. (Or, perhaps, I should start another thread?)
NOTE: The above quotes are included simply to help establish an understanding of "where this thread came from" or "what got this thread started" --- this discussion is not intended to target psychomom in any way...

(In fact, I more-or-less promised it to her "when I got a chance" -- and, in so many words, she told me that she was "eagerly awaiting for it"... So, in a way, this is for psychomom.)

I am starting this thread in order to try to raise awareness to the fact that there really is wide-spread corruption in the modern bible versions - and to try to illustrate:

~ just how extensive the curruption really is.
~ just how important it is to make sure you have - and use - the best possible bible translation available.

This is what is in the KJV:

Colossians 1:
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.


I have posted verses 21-29 because they collectively represent a "complete thought" in the mind of the writer (Paul).

A careful examination of the grammatical structure of the wording of these verses should reveal that the word 'Who' in verse 24 (which is plural) is referring back to the word 'you' in verse 21 -- not 'Paul' in verse 23.

The phrase "afflictions of Christ" in verse 24 does not mean 'what Christ is afflicted with', but rather 'afflictions [because of Christ]'. The word 'afflictions' applies to Paul - i.e., 'what Paul is afflicted with' --->>> "in my flesh" (in Paul's flesh).

I believe the phrase "afflictions of Christ in my flesh" in verse 24 may very well be referring specifically to Paul's 'thorn in the flesh' ("that which Christ afflicted me with [in my flesh]"); otherwise, it refers [generally] to the sufferings of Paul for the cause of Christ.

In either case -- his 'thorn in the flesh' - or - his 'sufferings for the cause of Christ' - is/are for "his (Christ's) body's sake, which is the church"...

The phrase "fill up that which is behind" in verse 24 means 'supplies that which is lacking', 'completes that which is missing', or 'makes up for the deficit'.

In essence, Paul is saying (in verse 24):

"The fact that you now rejoice because of my efforts/labor to preach/teach you the gospel makes my 'thorn in the flesh'/'sufferings for the cause of Christ' more tolerable/worthwhile."

Paul says nothing about "doing his share" of anything. Nor does he claim to have supplied anything that Christ lacks (nor does he even suggest that anything about Christ is lacking).

The NASB incorrectly "assigns" the word 'afflictions' to Christ instead of Paul.
The NASB incorrectly "assigns" the word 'Who' to Paul instead of those to whom he is speaking/writing.

GRA said:
("That verse is just full of error.")
Indeed.

:)

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psychomom

Guest
#2
Thank you, Gary. :)
I wonder, though, if it isn't more my understanding that's the problem? When I look at the Greek, I definitely see a paraphrase in the NASB ("do my share"). All English translations have them, but this does seem unfortunate.
Young's Literal renders it this way:
I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and do fill up the things lacking of the tribulations of the Christ in my flesh for his body, which is the assembly,
What do you think of that word choice?
Give me a little while to study this, though, and thank you again for beginning this. I am also eager to see what other people have to say.
ellie

ps- the absolute worst thing I've noticed in the NASB (so far) is the addition of the word "daughter" (to make "virgen" the modifier rather than the noun) in 1 Cor. 7:36-38! It's italicized, so at least you know straight off the bat they added it, but it's a glaring instance of interpretation rather than translation.
The NASB also definitely reflects the translators eschatological preference.
I've also found this link helpful in seeing some of the strengths and weaknesses of different translations. ------->Versions of the Bible I'm sure there must be others out there, as well.
My feeling is that no translation is "perfect", so I thank God for the 6 or so different translations we own. For study, I think it's good to look at far more than one. :)
 
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psychomom

Guest
#3
I find Paul's writing style a bit challenging because sometimes it seems his "complete thought" begins at verse 1 chapter 1, and doesn't fully end till the end of the letter. Oh, to be a bit less intellectually challenged!
 
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psychomom

Guest
#4
Sorry to post again. :(
I clearly misinterpreted the verse. Just wanted to get that out there so I could thank you, Gary, for clearing that up for me.
But I think I might have done that no matter which bible translation I was using. There are so many verses that speak to this idea (1 Peter 4:3; Philippians 3:10, 2 Cor. 1:5) that I "assumed" instead of actually studying!
I don't want to derail your wish for the thread, but I am just so thankful for you. Of course I have been taught that Jesus did all that was needed; I just never connected that truth in my own thinking of being "partakers of Christ's sufferings". I owe you a great debt of gratitude, my friend. :)

Thus ends my participation in this forum!
 
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Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,650
1,092
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#5
The NASB is a terrible..translation
 
G

GRA

Guest
#6
You are very welcome... :)

Give me a little while to study this, though, and thank you again for beginning this. I am also eager to see what other people have to say.
"Take your time... I will 'wait with you'..." :D

("After all -- you were patient with me until I could find time...") :)

I find Paul's writing style a bit challenging because sometimes it seems his "complete thought" begins at verse 1 chapter 1, and doesn't fully end till the end of the letter. Oh, to be a bit less intellectually challenged!
HAHA -- Yes - I know what you mean.

Sorry to post again. :(
There is no need for an apology... :)

I owe you a great debt of gratitude, my friend. :)
"No -- not really --- but, I am more than happy to be a friend..." :)

Thus ends my participation in this forum!
:eek: I hope not! :( Why do you say that? :confused:

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