Let me ask you this:
Are you saying ^ (in that quote) ^ that there are TWO ITEMS (or, points in time) that happen SEQUENTIALLY?
Or are you saying that there are THREE ITEMS (points in time) that happen SEQUENTIALLY?
IOW, which of the following is it that you are saying:
[the sequence]
1) the apostasy will occur FIRST (with no one really having any idea of WHAT "marks" the time-period which supposedly CAUSES this, in their "reaction")
2) [THEN] the man of sin will be revealed, and with it [/AT WHICH TIME], the day of Christ will [thus] "be present" (or JUST "AT HAND" still?<--even though the Grk wording does NOT support such), at that same time
OR
1) the apostasy will occur FIRST (with no one really having any idea of WHAT "marks" the time-period which supposedly CAUSES this, in their "reaction")
2) [THEN] the man of sin will be revealed (at what you believe is) the 2:4 "OPPOSETH... EXALTETH... SITTETH in the temple of God" (when there is still approx "42 mos" remaining till the end of trib)
3) [THEN] AFTER ALL of the "42 mos" are completely spent, THEN "the day of Christ" will "BE PRESENT" (or still "AT HAND," according to you) which is the thing (according to your view) the "false conveyors" had been SAYING "IS ALREADY HERE" in the Thessalonians' day (which will include, according to you, the 'caught-up / 'caught-away' / 'SNATCH' / harpazo / 'rapture' / 'our gathering-together [noun-event] UNTO HIM' / 'delivering us OUT-FROM the wrath COMING' / etc...)
So, why do you believe the false conveyors would be SAYING such a thing TO the Thessalonians?
And why do you believe Paul found it necessary to WRITE a corrective and cautionary LETTER to them, which TOOK SUBSTANTIAL "TIME" (so that they don't let such an untruth "deceive" them or to "trouble" their minds, even though NOTHING in their present-day experiences gave them any reason to BELIEVE such a falsehood that Jesus Himself "IS ALREADY HERE" could even be remotely true, as though this is what v.2 is SAYING [it's NOT]).
Help me out, here, because I'm just not seeing THAT being THE POINT of vv.2-3, at all.
Are you saying ^ (in that quote) ^ that there are TWO ITEMS (or, points in time) that happen SEQUENTIALLY?
Or are you saying that there are THREE ITEMS (points in time) that happen SEQUENTIALLY?
IOW, which of the following is it that you are saying:
[the sequence]
1) the apostasy will occur FIRST (with no one really having any idea of WHAT "marks" the time-period which supposedly CAUSES this, in their "reaction")
2) [THEN] the man of sin will be revealed, and with it [/AT WHICH TIME], the day of Christ will [thus] "be present" (or JUST "AT HAND" still?<--even though the Grk wording does NOT support such), at that same time
OR
1) the apostasy will occur FIRST (with no one really having any idea of WHAT "marks" the time-period which supposedly CAUSES this, in their "reaction")
2) [THEN] the man of sin will be revealed (at what you believe is) the 2:4 "OPPOSETH... EXALTETH... SITTETH in the temple of God" (when there is still approx "42 mos" remaining till the end of trib)
3) [THEN] AFTER ALL of the "42 mos" are completely spent, THEN "the day of Christ" will "BE PRESENT" (or still "AT HAND," according to you) which is the thing (according to your view) the "false conveyors" had been SAYING "IS ALREADY HERE" in the Thessalonians' day (which will include, according to you, the 'caught-up / 'caught-away' / 'SNATCH' / harpazo / 'rapture' / 'our gathering-together [noun-event] UNTO HIM' / 'delivering us OUT-FROM the wrath COMING' / etc...)
So, why do you believe the false conveyors would be SAYING such a thing TO the Thessalonians?
And why do you believe Paul found it necessary to WRITE a corrective and cautionary LETTER to them, which TOOK SUBSTANTIAL "TIME" (so that they don't let such an untruth "deceive" them or to "trouble" their minds, even though NOTHING in their present-day experiences gave them any reason to BELIEVE such a falsehood that Jesus Himself "IS ALREADY HERE" could even be remotely true, as though this is what v.2 is SAYING [it's NOT]).
Help me out, here, because I'm just not seeing THAT being THE POINT of vv.2-3, at all.
Like at the time of Paul, even now, there were deceivers going around spreading destructive heresies. They were trying to say that the day of Christ had come which would mean if they were still present then they missed the gathering.
Stick with what the texts in 2 Thess. 2 say and you'll eventually get it completely. Being especially mindful to not neglect that the apostasy must come first and the man of sin (in the great tribulation) then Jesus comes and gathers them (the church).
Paul was clearly teaching from what Jesus had said in the olivet discourse which states Jesus returns after the tribulation to gather His elect.
This should be revealing who the elect are, when the are gathered, when the rapture is.
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