study - Second Coming of Christ

GRA · Oct 18, 2012

Some time ago, I did a study on the Second Coming of Christ. This chart is the centerpiece of the study. It is a work in progress. At the time of the creation of this post/thread, the chart contains the initial data for the study. I am posting it now to give you a "preview" of it so you can "look it over" and see what you might conclude...

I will try to update the chart with new information as I am able.

The chart is too large to insert in the post. (I think so anyway - I inserted it, clicked 'Preview Post' - [waited 'forever'..........] - "gave up" - stopped it, and removed it.) Please just use the link above and open it in a new window.

As is normal for a thread in this forum - comments are welcome...

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Bookends · Oct 18, 2012

I think ":" should be under the L referring to Daniel 7:13 and possibly the same for Rev. 1:7...I believe it's reference to the Christ's ascension in the clouds to take His dominion in this age. Anyhow, a person's point of view and eschatology will ultimately influence their results and conclusions.

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

But nice work, I bet it a lot of time, I commend you for it!

webchatter · Oct 18, 2012

Fantastic!! I applaud you for studying this in detail yourself & not relying on another human to tell you what to believe. The Holy Spirit is a much better teacher than any human being. I notice from your chart that the 2nd coming is not at the rapture. The proof is in Scripture. We all like to discuss Scripture & beliefs, But I don't believe God intended for much to be a mystery, except the rapture's "hour & the day, not even the angels know". So he is telling us not to try to know the hour or day of the rapture, or "coming up to meet the Lord in the air" 's hour & day. The rest of the info is in Scripture. Personally I would like to know more about the trumpets/trump significance, as I have heard peopple talk about their being 2 sets of trumpets & ancient Jewish significance. Plz let us know your conclusions. I didn't notice if you were going to study "tribulation" vs. "great tribulation". Good luck & God bless!!

webchatter · Oct 18, 2012

Oh, & I concluded from your chart that the 2nd coming is not at the rapture because: "O"="gathering together" does not intersect or ocuur at the same time as "S"="all flesh will see Him". This was my belief anyway, & I'm glad to see you prove it in Scripture.

WolfInOxHide · Oct 18, 2012

Excellent chart! Thank you for attaching these terms to a list of verses. Will use.

Remember everyone: clouds obscure the heavens.

JaumeJ · Oct 18, 2012

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the
coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Shilo · Oct 18, 2012

nice will study

Bea22 · Oct 18, 2012

I wonder if you looked at some of the words of 'coming' which are actually the Greek word parousia which means 'presence'?

There are two different comings spoken of in the end times. One is presence and the other is as in Revelation 1:7 where the word used is erchomai and everyone will behold Him.

GRA · Oct 18, 2012

I have thoroughly studied every one of these passages - based on the framework of the context of scripture where each is found - some many verses before and after (sometimes chapters - you have to look at the entire context, if you are to arrive at a worthy conclusion).

Remember - I said the chart [presently] contains the initial data for the study...

The conclusions from my study:

~ There will be a second coming of Christ. There will not be a third coming of Christ.

Everything in the Bible that refers to the "coming" of Christ - that is not referring to the first coming of Christ - is referring to the second coming of Christ.

The idea that - Christ coming back "in the air" - and subsequently leaving without His feet touching the ground - somehow means that He "didn't really come back" (so as not to be called His "second coming") -- is utterly ridiculously absurd in the highest possible degree. His "second coming" will be "the next time He shows up" - whether He be seen or not, heard or not, or anything else or not. He will still have "come"...

The truth is -- the next time He "shows up" - it will be His "second coming" (He has not yet returned since the Acts 1:9 event.) - and, everything you read in the Bible that has to do with His "return" will ALL take place - in proper order - starting "the moment He shows up" -- "the rapture of the saints" and "the wrath of God" both happen within the same [overall] event -- the Second Coming of Christ. When He returns:

~~ He will be seen coming in/with clouds...
~~ Every eye shall see him - no exceptions...
~~ The 'rapture' of the saints will occur... (And, everyone will witness it -- the concept of "Where did they all go?" is NOT Biblical.)
~~ Every person on Earth will know who He is and why He is here... (There will be NO misunderstanding or doubt whatsoever.)
~~ His feet will stand upon the mount - which will cleave and split, and create a valley... ( Zechariah 14:4 )
~~ He will stand with the 144,000... ( Revelation 14:1 )
~~ The temple of God will be seen opened in heaven... ( Revelation 11:19 ; Revelation 15:5 )
~~ He will pour out the wrath of God upon the earth... ( Revelation 19:15 ; Revelation 14:19-20 ; Revelation 16 )

All of these things are "sub-parts" of the same 'major' event - the Second Coming of Christ.

~ All of the event phrases refer to the same event.

"day of the/our Lord [Jesus Christ]" = "coming of the/our Lord [Jesus Christ]" = Second Coming of Christ

And - yes - all of those "the day of the LORD" references in the O.T. are talking about the very same event.

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GRA · Oct 19, 2012

Bookends said:

"Yes, they most certainly will..."

Bookends said:

Thank You.

Yes, it has taken a lot of time and effort - and still continuing - as I find time...

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loveme1 · Oct 19, 2012

My apologies but...

I don't understand it.

Could you explain the purpose of this?

Thank you.

onlinebuddy · Oct 19, 2012

Thanks for the hard work GRA! I have been studying this topic for quite some time. Very useful chart.

GRA · Oct 19, 2012

webchatter said:

Thank You.

"I always try to get the final word from God Himself..."

It is the uncertain answers to questions and the discovery that I have been taught (or have been exposed to) bad doctrine that "spurs" these types of studies.

webchatter said:

Agreed.

webchatter said:

"Look again..."

webchatter said:

I know there are many "Jewish significances" with trumpets - especially with how they are connected to the feasts. I believe there are "parallels" in these "significances" with the overall-unfolding-of-history. I have not had the opportunity to study those things as much as I would like. Perhaps one day...

However, with regard to the End Times Events - I believe that:

"7th Trump" = "last Trump" => "occurs at a point in time directly before the rapture"

webchatter said:

("Not intended for this thread.")

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GRA · Oct 19, 2012

webchatter said:

"You are missing something..."

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Bea22 · Oct 19, 2012

GRA said:

Hi GRA, I just want to ask you some things.

1.
Romans 8:
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Would you call Christ’s Spirit in His people His presence?

2.
Revelations 10
1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

Who do you believe this mighty angel in Revelations 10 is?

3. 1 Corinthians 1
7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

The apokalupsis meaning ‘revelation’ is used for the verse regarding the sons of God in Romans 8 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God
If the coming there speaks of the revelation of the Lord, and the manifestation of the sons of God is the same translation ‘apokalupsis’ then what is your understanding of the manifestation of the sons of God, taking into consideration that we – the Bride of Christ – will manifest the Life of Christ (His fruit of the Spirit) by the Spirit of Christ within us?

4. I know you have mentioned that this is the initial of your study into the coming of the Lord but you have mentioned that your findings are that the second coming is the final coming and that all events will happen when every eye shall see Him etc.
I wonder what you think about the word epiphaneia which means ‘appearing’. Would you consider that as a word speaking of His ‘coming’ as well?

5. The ‘heko’ word used in Revelations 3:3 means ‘to have come or be present’. You have extensively looked through the words of come and coming to correctly identify different definitions. What is apparent is that there is His presence, His revelation and His appearing all coinciding with His coming. The question is whether they all take place simultaneously and whether that means there is only one final coming.

GRA · Oct 19, 2012

loveme1 said:

"No need to apologize..."

The original idea for this study was to look at every place in the Bible where any mention of "the day of the Lord" or "the coming of the Lord" was found (whether understood from the context, or those phrases - or similar - were actually used) -- and, based on a comparison of the "context + details" of each passage - determine how many "comings" of the Lord there actually are - and, what "details" were associated with each "coming" of the Lord. And, also, determine whether or not "the day of the Lord" = "the coming of the Lord"...

I was raised with the "rapture event is separate from second coming event" idea. (i.e., "there will be a second coming and a third coming" - even though nobody ever said it this way) At some point early in my adulthood - based on my own personal Bible study - this idea started "not making any sense" in light of the scriptures...

So, I decided that I was going to "get to the bottom of it" with this study.

I looked up every place I could find ... studied them all very carefully (over and over again - along with prayer, of course) ... until I came to a VERY convincingly CLEAR conclusion...

.

Laodicea · Oct 19, 2012

GRA said:

Some time ago, I did a study on the Second Coming of Christ. This chart is the centerpiece of the study. It is a work in progress. At the time of the creation of this post/thread, the chart contains the initial data for the study. I am posting it now to give you a "preview" of it so you can "look it over" and see what you might conclude...

I will try to update the chart with new information as I am able.

The chart is too large to insert in the post. (I think so anyway - I inserted it, clicked 'Preview Post' - [waited 'forever'..........] - "gave up" - stopped it, and removed it.) Please just use the link above and open it in a new window.

As is normal for a thread in this forum - comments are welcome...

.

A lot of work must have taken a while

RickyZ · Oct 19, 2012

GRA said:

"No need to apologize..."

The original idea for this study was to look at every place in the Bible where any mention of "the day of the Lord" or "the coming of the Lord" was found (whether understood from the context, or those phrases - or similar - were actually used) -- and, based on a comparison of the "context + details" of each passage - determine how many "comings" of the Lord there actually are - and, what "details" were associated with each "coming" of the Lord. And, also, determine whether or not "the day of the Lord" = "the coming of the Lord"...

I was raised with the "rapture event is separate from second coming event" idea. (i.e., "there will be a second coming and a third coming" - even though nobody ever said it this way) At some point early in my adulthood - based on my own personal Bible study - this idea started "not making any sense" in light of the scriptures...

So, I decided that I was going to "get to the bottom of it" with this study.

I looked up every place I could find ... studied them all very carefully (over and over again - along with prayer, of course) ... until I came to a VERY convincingly CLEAR conclusion...

.

Which is..?

loveme1 · Oct 19, 2012

GRA said:

"No need to apologize..."

The original idea for this study was to look at every place in the Bible where any mention of "the day of the Lord" or "the coming of the Lord" was found (whether understood from the context, or those phrases - or similar - were actually used) -- and, based on a comparison of the "context + details" of each passage - determine how many "comings" of the Lord there actually are - and, what "details" were associated with each "coming" of the Lord. And, also, determine whether or not "the day of the Lord" = "the coming of the Lord"...

I was raised with the "rapture event is separate from second coming event" idea. (i.e., "there will be a second coming and a third coming" - even though nobody ever said it this way) At some point early in my adulthood - based on my own personal Bible study - this idea started "not making any sense" in light of the scriptures...

So, I decided that I was going to "get to the bottom of it" with this study.

I looked up every place I could find ... studied them all very carefully (over and over again - along with prayer, of course) ... until I came to a VERY convincingly CLEAR conclusion...

.

Thank you, for taking the time to explain to this simpleton.

JaumeJ · Oct 19, 2012

It is a LOT of work.

study - Second Coming of Christ

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