The Antichrist Myth

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

Therapon

Guest
#1
The Antichrist Myth

What was the purpose of John’s gospel and his three epistles? Why was he inspired to write them at the very end of his life, circa 95 to 105 A.D.? What had happened to the Church during his lifetime?

Acts 20:29 “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”

Had the Apostle Paul’s prophecy of the church’s future already come to pass while John was alive? A few 1st and 2nd century heresies: Dualism (two gods), Gnosticism (Jesus not flesh), Montanism (additional revelation), Judaism (legalism), Asceticism (monasticism), Nocolaitanism (false apostles), Balaamism (merchandising the Gospel). Seeds of all appeared in the First Century. So it appears that John wrote when he did to expose false leaders and false doctrines that were already in the church. Confirmed by John 1:1-14, 2 Ti 3:6-8, Rev 2:2, 2:14-15, 2:20.

So who is “the” Antichrist? Did you know there are ONLY 4 VERSES in Scripture that mention “antichrist" by name?

1 John 2:18
, “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many
antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last time.” (NAS)

1 John 2:22, “Who is a liar but the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ. He is THE (Gr. definite article “te”) antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father.” (NAS)

1 John 4:3, “And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world.” (NAS)

2 John 7, “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is THE deceiver and THE antichrist.” (NAS)

Believe it or not, that’s all of them and I’ve also heard the moon was made of green cheese, but my having heard it doesn’t make it true. So do any of the above verses say there’s going to be a future Antichrist? If so, I fail to see it, or is John just exposing another heresy? Look at what’s being taught in evangelical churches today as struck-in-stone doctrines . . .

1. Antichrist will appear during the last 7 years of this era.
2. Rule as good leader 3 ½ years.
3. Rule as bad leader 3 ½ years.
4. Help the Jews rebuild the temple.
5. Reinstate animal sacrifices.
6. Build a “talking” image on the temple mount.
7. Stop sacrifices.
8. Destroy the temple during his last 3 ½ years.
9. Turn against the Jews.
10. Persecute Christians and Jews during a “seven year” tribulation.
11. Start Armageddon.
12. Be Satan in human form.

Sound familiar? Well guess what, not a single one of those popular end-time beliefs can be directly supported by the Bible, all are guesswork theology! During during the Christian era, God’s Temple is not a physical building on Mount Moriah! So lets locate where God says the Temple of God is located during the Christian Era . . .

1 Corinthians 3:16 “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”

2 Corinthians 6:16 “And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Ephesians 2:22 “In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”

The following verse in which Satan Invades the Temple of God is usually interpreted to be about a coming Antichrist, but that ignores where the Temple of God is located during the Christian era . . .

2 Thessalonians 2:2-4
“That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition (Satan is called a “man” in Isaiah 14:16 and elsewhere in Scripture); Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god (Satan and fallen angels do that), or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”

So where is the temple of God during the Christian era? In the believer’s heart! So this “he” of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 cannot a human! He is a demon or Satan himself, attacking the minds of Christians by masquerading as the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 11:14. All because invading spirits are not tested as commanded by 1 John 4:1-3.

The Command We Have Forgotten . . .

1 John 4:1-3 “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (Greek, δοϰιμάζω, dok-im-ad’-zo: to test, try, discern or examine. This is a command, not just a suggestion.) the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of
God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

The Lord already warned us, “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light,” 2 Corinthians 11:13. We forget it to our peril!

2 Thessalonians 2:5-8 “Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let (i.e., “restrains will restrain”, NAS), until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked (spirit) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.”

Genesis 6:3
“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man.”

False church during the End-Times . . .

1 Timothy 4:1-2 “. . . in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron . . .”

2 Timothy 4:3-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.”

Note: What I have written I have written; I will not debate or argue it. I leave that to those who believe it their Christian duty to do so. <wry smile>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
N

nathan3

Guest
#2
1 John 2:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Mark 13:22



22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.




2 Thessalonians 2



etc.
 
Oct 22, 2011
628
7
18
#3
1 John 2:18


Mark 13:22



22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.


Christs plural, false prophets plural this verse does not support a singular antichrist

"Ye have heard antichrist shall come" who is the antichrist we heard shall come?

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Christianwarrior316
 
P

peterT

Guest
#4

Christs plural, false prophets plural this verse does not support a singular antichrist

"Ye have heard antichrist shall come" who is the antichrist we heard shall come?

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Christianwarrior316


But this verses do support a singular man a king a leader in the end and he sounds like an antichrist to me , because he made war with the saints, and prevailed against them in the Ancient of days

Dan7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

It doesn’t matter if you think there is no singular antichrist Who do you think the man of sin is a friend of jesus?.

He sits in the temple of God showing he is God and I wouldn’t want to complain or murmur or
disobey or have any other Gods before him,
as if he is anything like the Hebrew God of the OT you would be a dead man.
 
Last edited:
T

Therapon

Guest
#5
But this verses do support a singular man a king a leader in the end and he sounds like an antichrist to me , because he made war with the saints, and prevailed against them in the Ancient of days.
With all due respect, sir, the purpose of Daniel's whole ministry was to show the Gentile rulers and the Jewish people what both their futures would be during ther "time of the Gentiles." That time was over in 1948 when the new nation of Israel was established or over in 1967 when Jerusalem was again under Israelite control for the first time in 2573 years.

Daniel 12:7 was fulfilled on June 6, 1967, so it can now be shown with some certainty that all of Daniel was fulfilled by that date. As a result, we cannot use any verses in Daniel as support for future events. It will take considerable time for me to write and prove what I just said, so please allow me a couple of days to do so and on a new thread, OK? However, here is a clue . . .

Daniel 12:7 "And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to the heavens and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people (fulfilled in 1948 and 1967), all these things shall be finished."

All what things will be finished? From Dan 10:1 to 12:7 or all of Daniel? The case can now be made that all of Daniel was fulfilled by those dates.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#6
it does say temple and not temples.Perhaps when the times of the gentiles is completed God zeros back in on the Jews and deals directly/mainly with the Jews.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#7
The word Anthropos is translated as "man" in both 2Th 2:3 and Rev 13:18

Look that word up in Walter Bauer's Greek Lexicon as well as in Thayer's Lexicon. It's pretty interesting what it says.

I don't believe the "man of sin" nor the "mark of a man" has to do with an individual at all. It is a general reference to the beast man who has rejected God.

The man of sin sitting in the temple of God is a reference to those who partake in a false Christianity which would sweep the world and deceive millions upon millions of people. These people did not have a love of the truth but instead had pleasure in unrighteousness and therefore God Himself sent them a strong delusion.

This false Christianity had not been borne yet in Paul's day. The falling away from the truth had yet to take place. There were still sound teachers teaching sound doctrine which were thus holding at bay the wolves who would later infiltrate. Paul warned with tears for three years about these wolves as portrayed in Acts 21.

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

It took two to three hundred years before the corruptions began to take hold within christian orthodoxy and the rest is history.

Today the apostasy is full blown and it has taken over the minds of the majority who profess Jesus Christ.

The wolves don't look like wolves. They appear as lambs. Satan is a deceiver and a very cunning one at that. Many completely underestimate how deceptive he actually is.

We ought to all be mindful of the warnings given in scripture. Jesus warned of massive deception in that "many" would come in His name and would deceive "many." Jesus said "many" workers of iniquity would stand before Him, workers of iniquity who professed to know Him and who did many works in His name, yet they would be utterly rejected.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
 
Last edited:

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#8
The Antichrist Myth

What was the purpose of John’s gospel and his three epistles? Why was he inspired to write them at the very end of his life, circa 95 to 105 A.D.? What had happened to the Church during his lifetime?
This is enough for me stop reading your post. With all due respect, what makes you think all of John's writings were written at this time? Don't you find it ODD that John wouldn't mention anything about the destruction of the temple and Jewish social and religious activities, which were at the center of the Jewish life?

I believe the whole canon of bible, including revelation, was finished (but not compiled into one book) before 70AD.
 
T

Therapon

Guest
#9
Please read my post above. IMHO, the "time of the Gentiles" has been over since 1948 or 1967. Israel has controlled the Holy Land since those dates.
 
P

peterT

Guest
#11
With all due respect, sir, the purpose of Daniel's whole ministry was to show the Gentile rulers and the Jewish people what both their futures would be during ther "time of the Gentiles." That time was over in 1948 when the new nation of Israel was established or over in 1967 when Jerusalem was again under Israelite control for the first time in 2573 years.

Daniel 12:7 was fulfilled on June 6, 1967, so it can now be shown with some certainty that all of Daniel was fulfilled by that date. As a result, we cannot use any verses in Daniel as support for future events. It will take considerable time for me to write and prove what I just said, so please allow me a couple of days to do so and on a new thread, OK? However, here is a clue . . .

Daniel 12:7 "And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to the heavens and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people (fulfilled in 1948 and 1967), all these things shall be finished."

All what things will be finished? From Dan 10:1 to 12:7 or all of Daniel? The case can now be made that all of Daniel was fulfilled by those dates.
Who told you that? were did they get that information from a fortune cocky or the back of a Kellogg’s cornflake packet.


Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


Its talking about the Ancient of days the last days not 1948


 
T

Therapon

Guest
#12
This is enough for me stop reading your post. With all due respect, what makes you think all of John's writings were written at this time? Don't you find it ODD that John wouldn't mention anything about the destruction of the temple and Jewish social and religious activities, which were at the center of the Jewish life? I believe the whole canon of bible, including revelation, was finished (but not compiled into one book) before 70AD.
OK, stop reading me if you like, I'm not offended, <grin> but do you think I would make such a statement if I didn't have documentation to support it? The dates specified have been accepted by the church for centuries.

You sound like you believe that John was the decision maker with full control over what he wrote? Well he wasn't, we are talking about God's inspired word here, so it was God who willed not tell about the 70 A.D. destruction of the temple in John's gospel, not John.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#14
OK, stop reading me if you like, I'm not offended, <grin> but do you think I would make such a statement if I didn't have documentation to support it? The dates specified have been accepted by the church for centuries.

You sound like you believe that John was the decision maker with full control over what he wrote? Well he wasn't, we are talking about God's inspired word here, so it was God who willed not tell about the 70 A.D. destruction of the temple in John's gospel, not John.
I'm glad you are not offended. Many NT writers were quick to pronounce prophecy was fulfilled. I do not base this just on what John wrote, but what God wrote in the whole bible. Peace. We can agree to disagree on eschatology, can't we?
 
P

peterT

Guest
#15
:confused:

"You do know that 'Ancient of days' is a reference to God -- right?"

:)

.
I understand that, but its not talking 1948 its talking about the END

When the judgment was set, and the books were opened. and the saints possess the kingdom that’s not 1948 or 1968


 
T

Therapon

Guest
#16
Who told you that? were did they get that information from a fortune cocky or the back of a Kellogg’s cornflake packet. Its talking about the Ancient of days the last days not 1948
I'm not going to exegete the whole book of Daniel here. Instead, I again ask the same question I asked in my earlier post.

Daniel 12:7 "And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to the heavens and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people (fulfilled in 1948 and 1967), all these things shall be finished."

All what things will be finished? From Dan 10:1 to 12:7 or all of Daniel?
 
G

GRA

Guest
#17
I think it's a reference to Christs ascension.
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. - Daniel 7:9-10

Who or what is whose / his / his / his / him / him / him...?

:)

.
 
P

peterT

Guest
#18
I'm not going to exegete the whole book of Daniel here. Instead, I again ask the same question I asked in my earlier post.

Daniel 12:7 "And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to the heavens and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people (fulfilled in 1948 and 1967), all these things shall be finished."

All what things will be finished? From Dan 10:1 to 12:7 or all of Daniel?
time, times, and a half. Is the last 1260 days or 42 months the last 3 ½ years
scattering the power of the holy people is us
then all these things shall be finished,
its prophesy not history
 
Oct 22, 2011
628
7
18
#19
But this verses do support a singular man a king a leader in the end and he sounds like an antichrist to me , because he made war with the saints, and prevailed against them in the Ancient of days

Dan7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

I think you are completely misunderstanding peterT. Your basing your understand on a precept that is proven to be false, a false doctrine that can be traced back to the very roots of it’s inception by the Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera.
When we place our doctrinal filter upon our eyes when we study God’s Word it can lead to a faulty exegesis of scripture.
Out of respect for Therapon I will allow him to start the thread he said he will start in a few days to address this and show where this has been fulfilled.

It doesn’t matter if you think there is no singular antichrist Who do you think the man of sin is a friend of jesus?.
2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

While many believe there is only one man of sin because it is used in singular fashion, we cannot assume this to be true any more then we can assume there is only one man of God because it is used in a singular fashion as the following verses demonstrate.
Deu 33:1
And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.
1Ki 12:22
But the word of God came unto Shemaiah the man of God, saying,
2Ki 5:8
And it was so, when Elisha the man of God had heard that the king of Israel had rent his clothes, that he sent to the king, saying, Wherefore hast thou rent thy clothes? let him come now to me, and he shall know that there is a prophet in Israel.

2Ch 8:14
And I brought them into the house of the LORD, into the chamber of the sons of Hanan, the son of Igdaliah, a man of God, which was by the chamber of the princes, which was above the chamber of Maaseiah the son of Shallum, the keeper of the door:

As we can see the man of sin and the son of perdition are interchangeable terms, which also proves that there is more then one man of sin.
Do you believe Judas will be resurrected before Christ’s return?
Look in today’s churches and you will find many who proclaim themselves to be above God. Isn’t that what those who openly sin are doing when they say God will forgive them even when they refuse to repent and continue to live in sin? Aren’t they placing themselves above what is called God? (See John 1:1)
As far as the man of sin sitting in the temple of God, allow me to ask a few questions.

Does God dwell in man made temples?
See Acts7:48 and acts 17:24

Where is the temple of God?
See 1Cor3:16-17 and 2Cor6:16 which shows that we are individual temples of God that are part of the corporate temple that Christ Himself built in three days (see John 2:19 ) using Himself as the cornerstone and us believers as the lively stones (Eph2:19-21)

Maybe this will help you gain an understanding of who the man of sin is and where he sits.

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
 
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#20
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says this about the Antichrist:

Antichrist in the Old Testament:
As in the Old Testament the doctrine concerning Christ was only suggested, not developed, so is it with the doctrine of the Antichrist. That the Messiah should be the divine Logos, the only adequate expression of God, was merely hinted at, not stated: so Antichrist was exhibited as the opponent of God rather than of His anointed. In the historical books of the Old Testament we find "Belial" used as if a personal opponent of Yahweh; thus the scandalously wicked are called in the King James Version "sons of Belial" (Judges 19:22; Judges 20:13), "daughter of Belial" (1 Samuel 1:16), etc. The the Revised Version (British and American) translates the expression in an abstract sense, "base fellows," "wicked woman." In Daniel 7:7-8 there is the description of a great heathen empire, represented by a beast with ten horns: its full antagonism to God is expressed in a little eleventh horn which had "a mouth speaking great things" and "made war with the saints" (Daniel 7:8, 21). Him the `Ancient of Days' was to destroy, and his kingdom was to be given to a `Son of Man' (Daniel 7:9-14).